Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: Sitar_Ned on April 18, 2014, 02:01:36 PM
-
So, last night Peter from Iplay emailed me basically to try to get an insight into what I thought would be the most in demand features and designs for his new line of fat bike rims that are in the works..
First of all, while I absolutely do appreciate that he reached out to me like that, and think it's very smart of him to try to get that kind of insight.. He has grossly over estimated my technical mtb wheel building knowledge :)
I honestly have no clue how to answer Peter's questions but would love to help him get these answers, while simultaneously giving riders exactly what it is that they want.. So with his permission, of course, I thought i'd see if anyone of you guys (I know there's not many of you yet) either had some wheel building knowledge, or knew someone that did.. specifically related to fat bike rims.
Here.. I'll just let you hear it in Peter's words. Would probably be the best way, but keep in mind.. English is his second language but his questions are very clear..
Hi Rob,
How are you?
And could you let me know more details of fat bike rims that you think is idealest? I mean OD, ID and ERD. And what about the distance between drilling holes ?
I plan to make new models for 80mm width and 100mm width, these two kinds of rims can be clincher and tubeless compatible. You know, our previous 80mm rims are for clincher only, not compatible for tubeless.
And Which design will be the most idealest ?
Or do you have any design and could you send me? Maybe I can make the rim mould same as your design
And we will have carbon fat bike frames available soon
Best Regards,
Peter
Okay.. That's it. Anyone?
-
I received the same email, not knowing if he couldn't just do a search, and me not knowing much about FatBike wheels, I did a quick search and sent him back some info. To my surprise, there are already several carbon fat bike wheels on the market.
Below is my reply.
https://www.hedcycling.com/bigdeal/
https://www.hedcycling.com/pdf/HedFatRimInstructions.pdf
http://www.lamerecycles.com/#!fatbike/c1ff7
This website has some specs:
http://sarmabikes.com/products/carbon-rim-fatbikes
ERD: 534 mm
ERTRO: 559 mm
Recommended tire pressure: 10-15 PSI
Max rider weight limit: 110 kg
Max Spoke Tension: 100 kgf
Recommended valve’s length: 35 mm
Recommended width of tubeless tape 50-65 mm
Recommended spokes nipples: 12 mm
http://www.borealisbikes.com/parts/carbondale-rims/
http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/02/25/exclusive-kuroshiro-reinvents-the-tubeless-wheel-with-their-incredible-enso685-carbon-fat-bike-rim/
http://fat-bike.com/2014/02/sarma-introduces-first-100mm-carbon-rims-the-naran-100/
Also, I would suggest ordering a set of wheels you like from one of these places to get more specs.
Regards,
-
I suppose he's trying to figure out which the most popular would be. I think the problem would be that fat bikes are so new.. there's less people to get feedback from. Like you, I was surprised that these wheels were already so widely available.. so maybe there's more info to be had than I assumed.
-
The one from the bike rumor article looks like a winner:
(http://i.imgur.com/xnSrNEo.jpg)
Hey CD... this speaks to what I was saying in the fat bike thread about how I think having high end components, especially wheels, is what it's all about with fat bikes.
From the article:
"the Salsa Mukluk shown above lost about 7 pounds when the Rolling Darryl wheelset and 45NRTH tubed tires were swapped out for the ensō685."
7 pounds off your wheels! That's got to be a night and day difference and I bet they get even lighter.
-
Fat Bikes are definitely a lot about having a cool looking ride that turns heads.
-
Really? You've ridden one and I haven't and I trust your opinion but it just really seems like those huge ass tires would have significant effects on the ride of the bike. Seems if they could get them light enough then ultimate awesomeness would be achieved. So, I'll definitely reconsider getting one until I've at least ridden one, and a really nice one.
I was thinking that I'd ultimately allow myself a stable of three chiners.. The 057 is one, the 036 will be on most likely... and that carbon fat bike pic I posted was making me consider a fatty. Getting 27.5 just seems a little redundant but maybe you can talk me out of that opinion as i saw that you left some positive comments in the 27.5 thread about the wheel size def being better than 26.
-
I'm interested in these rims for sure. Will most likely be building a full carbon fat bike soon, and I've ridden one and really liked it, but to each his own.
-
I rode a Origin8 Fat Bike a few months back at the Southeast Bike Expo, it was a totally different experience. I didn't think I would like it but like anything bike related, once you try it, you want more. The tires are so huge that it reminded me of riding one of those old fat tire mini bikes:
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x11/oldsledz/DSC01913.jpg) (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/oldsledz/media/DSC01913.jpg.html)
The tires had about 9psi of air in them and if you leaned left or right, the bike would turn in that direction. According to the Origin8 website, the bikes weight is 42lbs, but it didn't feel quite that heavy. Carbon rims may knock off a few pounds but that would still be a heavy bike. The tires alone must weigh 3-4 lbs each!
Here is a link: http://www.origin8.bike/product-description/?prod_model_uid=7933 (http://www.origin8.bike/product-description/?prod_model_uid=7933) Although the bike I rode had a traditional rear derailleur, not the Nuvinci internal gear hub.
-
Wish I had more knowledge to provide some input here.. but all I know is I want some bad ass, light weight carbon fat bike rims on the cheap. lol.
-
Here is our FR80C fat bike rim geometry, what do you think?
-
I like the 80mm width, I think over 80mm would be too wide.
-
I like the 80mm width, I think over 80mm would be too wide.
Agreed. From the research I've been doing 80mm seems to be the optimal width, at this point.
I assume those are tubeless ready?
-
Here it is 100mm fat bike rim FR100C geometry, see attachment
-
Hmmm, 100mm wide ( or 4 inches) seems very wide. Since I have ridden only one fat bike I really can't say if I would want 80mm or 100mm wide rims. Either way, I'm not really interested in building a fat bike right now.
Good luck with your sales Peter! Also, congratulations on your marriage!
-
Hey Peter.. I'm definitely interested in one of the two rims you have posted.
Leaning towards the 80mm at this point. Been doing some research recently and it seems that might be the sweet spot. I'm definitely open to the 100mm width though, just didn't figure you guys would have them available so soon.
Do you happen to have weights for each size? And are they available now or soon?
Thanks for keeping us updated!
-
Our 80mm and 100mm rims designs are similar to SARMA fat rims:
http://sarmabikes.com/products/carbon-rim-fatbikes
http://fat-bike.com/2014/02/sarma-introduces-first-100mm-carbon-rims-the-naran-100/
-
Peter, please do test these rims before you actually make them available for purchase. dont use us as guinea pigs like other 2 companies that have already their fat rims out.
-
Peter, please do test these rims before you actually make them available for purchase. dont use us as guinea pigs like other 2 companies that have already their fat rims out.
I completely agree with this.
I keep saying that the first one of these Chinese suppliers that really gets there game together is going make a killing. Doing some decent strength and quality testing, and making some high quality videos showing those tests is one of the main components to success imo. What stops people from buying Chinese carbon is they fear the quality and strength is poor, and lesser than what you'd find on a name brand frame or rims. People still have a bit of fear of carbon in general.. so I think buying the name brand is very reassuring to those people. Alleviate that fear and kill the association the Chinese carbon is lesser.. and biz will boom. No better way to market that than producing some product testing videos and send out sample product for public review just like the big names do. I really wish I owned a Chinese carbon manufacturing company... they have the product and the price.. but they don't understand their customer and how to market to them yet.
-
other big thing with fat carbon rims is tubeless compatibility, that needs to be tested, rather than just stating they are tubeless compatible.
-
Sure, we do testing for each fame and rim before they are through QC passed. I will let you guys know the test report for our fat bike rims
Thanks for your attention
-
Well I know the fat bike frames are just around the corner.. What's the status of the fat rims, Peter?
-
Yes, the RM80C 80mm rim sample will be available next week.
-
Yes, the RM80C 80mm rim sample will be available next week.
Good to hear, Peter. Thanks.
-
A sketch for thought...
being very very new to "all of this" (even interacting/posting)
I mean not to insult any of ya you (I'm still looking at my ol'iron rides of yester-year:
but tahke a look and dream on...
Necessity is indeed the mother of invention especially
whenone travels from the known to the unknown?
So start with a centerline and put the hub in place and let her fly!
ovr-n-out
-
I would love to see a new carbon MTB wheel design with no spokes, I have seen some solid disc wheels used in indoor track racing and some road racing teams have used solid wheels on and off.
When I was a kid I had a BMX bike with composite mag wheels, they were really cool, would not go out of true, strong, but heavy.
-
Funny this topic came up.. I was just thinking about how I so badly wanted some mag wheels when I was a kid. I remember them being popular, but now they are basically extinct. You would think carbon fiber manufacturing could change that, no? I guess there's just no way around 26 spokes being lighter than three big composite spokes? What about two composite spokes though.. wonder if carbon is capable of that?
Either way mag wheels just look cool, and I would love to see some type of improved variation of the design.
-
Very interesting comments,
consider: what would the front spokes weigh?
V.S.
the carbon mat'l as used in a semi-flat hollowed disk?
considering:
strength factor of one concept as opposed to the other?
Since I haven't used any carbon related stuff like most of you all.
I wonder if you would update me as to real time failure issues?
What is your opinion ref. does/did a rim failure occur because of spoke lace'ng pattern?
Or was the inherent strength of the rim cross section in question?
I ask this because: the few demonstrations of a comparison... aluminum V.S. carbon
only shows a dynamic downward force ( physical push). Note I believe when a wheel is in motion
the real time forces (especially on the front wheel [likely too: applicable to rear wheel set]
has force factors applied from a variety of input angles ...since you are the riders freeze the image in your mind
as to just what is going on at the point of contact upon that very small contact patch collectively?
How about the use of a GOPRO device mounted in such a way to look at in real time the specific area in question?
Then if possible review the digital video in slow to super slow motion whereby 'POSSIBLE' rim distortion- twisting
etc. might be seen? From such a review there may be established the necessities of design modifications. Even adding a
view of the hub area: is there lateral deflection under load occurring? If so can the spoke act within its capability as a spoke?
What is its purpose as well as what are the limits? especially when/while angular forces are at work especially when a riders weight
is /could be 100% forward or reward fro the matter?
Tires/inflation as well may be considered too.
Once a review of these factors is undertaken the collective notion of current rim-cross sections may be scraped altogether.
Well I'm gonna buz on to worship...
Good luck!
? 8) ?
ovr-n-out
-
Interesting post, Inertia. Not sure how much I can add to the conversation but I looked it up and 28 DT Swiss Champion spokes (which are commonly used) would weigh 192.5 grams, or 0.42 pounds.
As for carbon failure rates.. Pretty difficult to say really. I will say that most of the carbon failures seem to be smaller pieces like the bars attached to many carbon saddles. Not sure it works well for the smaller bits like that. That said, I am no expert and have seen no definitive proof either way.
-
Interesting thread. As I was reading through it, I remembered this video that shows some mag wheels kinda like what you guys are talking about, and thought it was worth sharing. They aren't MTB wheels but still pretty darn cool looking. I too would like to see some new type of mag wheels come out if they could offer decent performance/weight.
http://youtu.be/tWlIdxj__0I
-
Here are some videos referring to our 80mm fat bike rims testing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsHlC9hHb5A&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tspu2J5Fxbg&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq1GfHrTuw4&feature=youtu.be
We make each kind of production with testing, frame, rims, forks and other items. Now we are arranging 80mm fat bike rims batch production