Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29+ & 27+ => Topic started by: FlyingDodo on May 12, 2019, 03:11:05 AM
-
Hi everyone,
I've been reading alot about chinese based builds in the last couple of weeks and started to put together a project based on the Light Carbon FS713. I have to mention that I have no experience with bike building so far and would appreciate very much if someone could give me feedback on the composition of chosen components (compability). It should be an AM bike fit for almost every purpose, although I have to mention that I'm not the kind of guy who takes his bike with a cable car to the top of a hill to ride it down only.
Also I haven't found any reference project based on this frame. Is it just because the frame seems to be quite new or is there any other reason I should consider?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_fOXEu374cEQXW3wKCjhjwTt_zA7Z2xqT_xqJa11eE0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_fOXEu374cEQXW3wKCjhjwTt_zA7Z2xqT_xqJa11eE0/edit?usp=sharing)
Many thanks in advance for feedback.
-
I don't see any incompatibility problems with those components except I am unsure about the headset.
If you plan to do heavy technical riding, I think you would appreciate the function of a heavier duty shock. Something with a reservoir like a DPX2.
Do you like DT suspension?
-
Thanks for checking. Need to check the headset again.
Regarding the shock. I think I am not there yet for the really heavy technical stuff. To be honsest I personally dont have much experience with the DT Swiss R 535. Mainly two reasons I've chosen it. 1) My reference bike has the same and 2) it fits the design (frame black matt with glossy cyan blue decals). I just received the drawing from the designer (attached).
-
Flying Dodo on a bike called Paddling Rabbit? Is that a spell check issue and should be Peddling, in which case I think it should be Pedalling if you mean what we do with the pedals of a bike.
Otherwise I like the colours.
-
Ok but you can get blue decals for most forks. Might want to check out the Bike Radar fork review. I just don't want you to spend that much money when you can get good fork for half that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV6d1LX0SkU
As well as the Manitou Mcleod for the rear shock.
-
The decals I luckily checked again before I've sent out the final order. So that's fixed ;D
Thanks for highlighting that test. I now changed the front one to RockShox Lyrik Charger RC2 DebonAir Federgabel (160mm). Saves roughly 280.- based on local prices.
Regarding the rear one unfortunately there seem to be no local dealer to get the Manitou Mcleod. So I'm thinking about to switch to the RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 DebonAir. Any opinion on that one?
Yesterday I also had the chance to get a brandnew 1x12 SRAM Eagle XX1 for an unbeatable price as the guy got himself the AXS. I couldnt resist on that one.
-
Also I haven't found any reference project based on this frame. Is it just because the frame seems to be quite new or is there any other reason I should consider?
Is this the exact same frame as the fm08 that tan tan is selling? I had a quick look at the geo charts and it looks like it. Could be from the same factory. There are a couple build threads on here for the fm08.
-
Regarding the rear one unfortunately there seem to be no local dealer to get the Manitou Mcleod. So I'm thinking about to switch to the RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 DebonAir. Any opinion on that one?
I also would recommend the McLeod rear shock. Where are you? Switzerland? The Germans (e.g. bike-discount) have the McLeod. Do they not ship to your country?
Not sure if the performance of the latest piggyback shocks from fox/rockshox is much better, but the McLeod performance is pretty awesome, for half the price. That frame will give you around 150mm travel with a 200x56 McLeod.
-
Yes, based I'min Switzerland. I potentially have a deal ongoing to get a near mint one. Let's see, otherwise I have to go with a German dealer but shipping costs are normally quite high.
What do you think of the geo in case I go with a 160mm front fork?
-
So production of the frame is coming to an end and am thrilled to finally receive the frame :D . According to John it should be shipped tomorrow.
-
Nice color!
-
Looks good, is the blue gloss?
So nice to see a burly BB interface and not thin tube like some of them appear.
-
Thanks and yes. The blue is Panetone 306C glossy and the Black is matt.
Does anyone actually has experience with wheels/rims from LightCarbon? I could't find any feedback which worries me a bit.
-
I remember I read some time ago a nice review from few users in mtbr forum, and i've read positive feedback in spanish forum.
In all cases the buyers had DT Swiss hubs, both 370s and 240s.
-
That's the same from as my TanTan ..
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2208.0.html
-
Yes, assuming the geo stats are correct, they are almost identical: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/tantan-fm08-2018-large,light-carbon-fs713-2019-19-5/ (https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/tantan-fm08-2018-large,light-carbon-fs713-2019-19-5/)
The wheels habe arrived today. So far they look very clean. I've already installed the casette and brake disks but need to change the China valves. Currently planning for Milkit ones.
-
Ok short update, yesterday the wheels have arrived and today the frame. Of course i immediately had to Start the building process but first things first. So far the frame looked very clean and the paint Job was nicely done. Not absolutely perfect but definitely a good value for the price.
Mounting the rear shock was quite a hazzle as the front facing spacer only fitted with quite a lot of presure. But in the end it worked out.
The depressing part was when i tried to mount the fork. The bearings from the headset didnt fit. So i checked again the measurements and yes they were too small. I then quickly ran to the next bike Shop but they also couldnt help because it's unclear if a semi integrated headset is required. The Homepage from LightCarbon really lacks of details so I wrote John an email. Let's see with what he comes back.
Attached to pics...
-
I noticed that the frame's website says it needs a 44mm top and 56mm headset, which is different to the usual 42/52 that these Chinese frames use. On cane creek's website I cannot see any integrated (IS) headsets in that 44/56 size, but that size is available in the zero stack (ZS, aka semi integrated) configuration. Does your frame have cups built into it? I'm guessing not. While heavier, a ZS setup would probably be better for a longer travel frame. The downside is that a ZS headset needs headset tools to press it in (tools I don't have).
What size shock are you running? Your spec sheet says 210x57, a size that doesn't exist. Is it 210x55 or 200x57? You appear to have mounted the shock in the position for a 210mm shock. Whatever setup you have, I am very interested in the BB height of your bike (height of the centre of your BB spindle).
Careful clamping your frame like that - you probably shouldn't do that. You are much better off clamping the post - just make sure you clean the jaws before clamping then thin tube on the dropper post.
-
The shock I bought used but in very good condition from an user of this forum. It used to be a 216x63 shock which is now limited to 210x57.
Can anybody say based on the two pics what kind of headset would fit? I also measured diameters etc. within the attached sketch. In addition I wrote the user supermoto which has the Tan Tan FM08 a message to clarify what headset he has used. This frame is more or less identical.
Regarding the height of the BB. I temporarly mounted the fork to be able to shorted the cable lenght. Without pumped wheels the height is 340mm.
Edit:
While doing some further research I came across a picture of the FM08 frame which seems to have integrated headset cups (all pics to be found here: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Full-Suspension-Mountain-Bike-Frame-toray_62127691819.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.21.4c231247aGiTAb). Relevant one is atttached.
-
Some valuable info to identify headsets:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/standardized-headset-identification-system
I would say you need something like this one:
https://www.bikester.ch/sixpack-sxr-2in1-headset-zs44286-i-zs5630-and-zs44286-i-zs5640-red-713179.html
But you can always check with manufacturer and other users of the frame!
-
Is that diagram with measurements yours? If not,. can you do the measurements on your frame.
If it was zs44/zs56, the bore depth (before it tapers in) should be closer to 12.5mm, rather than 8-9mm. I don't have any ZS headsets to measure (the one I have is pressed into a frame), but if I were you I'd try to find a shop that has one and measure the depth of it.
You should also (re)measure the lower ID. For a zs56, it should be around 55.9, not 55.5.
As for the possibility of it being IS44/IS56, I just can't see any headsets in that size.
I'm perplexed.
Hopefully the other owner sheds some light on this
-
In the meantime I'm pretty sure a FSA No. 57 is required (LightCarbon even has this Information hidden in the geometry table on the webpage) but the sales guy keeps recommending a Chris King Headset with flat bottom insert surfaces (although the frame has angles of i think 45 degrees). To me this pretty much looks like they dont know what they are selling.
I now have sent them the official FSA product catalogue, asking which of the about 10 different No. 57 versions is the correct one.
-
Yeah, the FSA 57 is consistent with the one used in the Rocky mountain instinct (a 57E), which is what this frame appears to be a close copy of.
A quick google shows these 3 headsets:
https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/no-57e-3425
If you have a tapered steerer on your fork, you can't use the 57E-1. Either of the other two should work, depending on what stack height you want. I personally go for the lowest stack height usually, as it give more flexibility to lower the stem further.
To be sure, you could measure your frame's headtube. The pdf on that page has headset measurements for those FSA headsets. The cup heights, including the lip, are 12mm top and 11.5mm bottom. the lips are 2mm, so the headsets will go 10/9.5mm into your headtube. However, if you look at the diagram, that 10/9.5 includes the taper on the headset, which looks to be about 3mm for the top headset cup, and about 1mm for the lower headset cup (if you compare the thickness of taper with other measurements in the diagram). Therefore, to fit this headset in your frame, you need about 7mm (10minus3) of depth in the top headtube before it tapers in, and about 8.5mm for the bottom Does your frame have these measurements (or greater)? The headset could probably still work with slightly less, but it wouldn't press completely all the way in, so it wouldn't be ideal.
-
Many thanks for confirming my thoughts. I went with the FSA No. 57E at the end. So far everything went well with the Installation. I just noticed that I have the wrong brake adapter in the front. A second thing is that the spacers for the bumper are too tight. I already thoughtnso when I installed the bumper. Yesterday after some minutes on the road the frame started to make ugly noises and they definitely could be tracked back to the front mount of the bumper.
Else just need to bleed the brakes (one last time hopefully). Will make some pictures later today.
Edit: I measured again the height of the BB with the wheels fully pumped. I measured 365mm.
-
365mm? To the middle of the BB spindle? Geez that is high. I was thinking it'd be around 345mm. Is that with a 150 or 160mm fork? With a 2.3" rear and 2.5" front tyre? Did you measure the eye to eye of the shock to confirm it was 210mm?
I am aiming for a BB height around 340mm, with similar 29er wheels/tyres, but with slightly less travel - around 140mm F&R. I was considering doing what was done with your shock i.e. shortening up a McLeod (but starting with a shorter shock). But if the BB is that high, I might be able to get to the height I want by just getting a 200x50 shock and putting the flip chip in the 'low' setting (i.e. the position meant for 210 shocks, where you have it).
-
To me this pretty much looks like they dont know what they are selling.
Just smile and wave, bro. This is all part of the exciting experience of riding chiner frames! The seller for my M06 published the wrong atc, no shock mounting info, and no geo chart for anything other than the 19". It is laughable how clueless they are. And we ride these things? We must be insane.
-
365mm? To the middle of the BB spindle? Geez that is high. I was thinking it'd be around 345mm. Is that with a 150 or 160mm fork? With a 2.3" rear and 2.5" front tyre? Did you measure the eye to eye of the shock to confirm it was 210mm?
365 to the middle of the pindle and 2.35 / 2.5 tires. Eye to eye should be 210 but will measure again to be sure. Currently there is a 170mm fork sitting in the front, which I Plan to reduce 150 but first wanted to give the 170 a go.
IT is in fact really high, I barely cant mount the bike with the dropper post fully extended.
-
Brought the bike to a local bike shop on Tuesday to let it have checked. Everything was ok, so I took it to the local trail today.
The ride was very smooth but still have to get used to it as I was riding a 26er before. This one feels completely different, rough terrain is much less an issue. Curves feel very much different.
-
Some more impressions
-
Very nice!
-
Nice build, Dodo. That McLeod is a great shock and it is customizable if you don't like the stock tune.
-
Some more impressions
Great build!
How do you feel the bike? Good pedal efficiency? And suspension feel?
-
My frame arrived to postal office. ;D
Tomorrow I going for it
-
Is really strong frame, good details, good construction, I’m impressed.
Now, I’m searching fork, maybe Pike 150 or Lyrik 160.
Flying Dodo, have you any issues?
-
Dusted another 50km Route this weekend. First of all i have to say this my first 29er bike and coming from 26er this is a big change and I'm still learning how to handle the bike. Because I'm running a 170cm fork the bike is very high. I'm already thinking to go down to 150/160. In General very happy with the frame. When I start a Tour for about the first 20min the BB makes ugly noises when going strong. But that then stops. To be honsest I have not checked the frame for cracks but I couldnt feel anything so far. Will check before my next ride.
-
I wonder if you could go with a 200x57 and lower that bb. That's got to be part of the reason the handling is so much different. That's like 40mm higher then I like it. It's gotta have very teetering feeling to it.
-
I wonder if you could go with a 200x57 and lower that bb. That's got to be part of the reason the handling is so much different. That's like 40mm higher then I like it. It's gotta have very teetering feeling to it.
First of all, the 2 positions of the shock, are for 2 different shock sizes.
10mm of drop is too much drop! (21mm effective drop, with the ratio of the wheel)
Second, we must verify that the moving parts do not have contact when changing the link position.
I bought a 200x57 cane creek DB air.
For now, I’m waiting for the rest of the components. Once the bike are ready I will check this. I also buy a pair of offset bushes to play with it
-
My wheels arrived yesterday for my FM08, which I suspect is the same frame. The eye-to-eye at lowest bottom out**, to the '200' flip chip position, is 131mm. I didn't measure the eye to eye at bottom out to the '210' position, but it is probably 10mm more (around 141mm). Would need to check that it is at least 143mm before putting a 200x57 in the 210 position.
**On my frame, with a 29x2.35 rear tyre,the cross brace on the swing link contacts the frame. Maybe with a bigger tyre, the tyre might hit first.
If you have a look at the leverage curve, you'd notice the leverage ratio is around 3.0-3.2 at top out. Putting a 200 e2e shock in the 210 position would take 10mm of shock travel off the top, which would translate to around 31mm at the rear wheel, the the back end would drop that much. The BB would drop less, because it is forward of the back end (prob drop about two thirds). I haven't done the exact angle calcs, but that much rear end drop would make it way too slack for me
-
My wheels arrived yesterday for my FM08, which I suspect is the same frame. The eye-to-eye at lowest bottom out**, to the '200' flip chip position, is 131mm. I didn't measure the eye to eye at bottom out to the '210' position, but it is probably 10mm more (around 141mm). Would need to check that it is at least 143mm before putting a 200x57 in the 210 position.
**On my frame, with a 29x2.35 rear tyre,the cross brace on the swing link contacts the frame. Maybe with a bigger tyre, the tyre might hit first.
If you have a look at the leverage curve, you'd notice the leverage ratio is around 3.0-3.2 at top out. Putting a 200 e2e shock in the 210 position would take 10mm of shock travel off the top, which would translate to around 31mm at the rear wheel, the the back end would drop that much. The BB would drop less, because it is forward of the back end (prob drop about two thirds). I haven't done the exact angle calcs, but that much rear end drop would make it way too slack for me
Thanks for your response!
The LR is around 2.0 at bottom, and 3.2 in the first part of the curve!
Can you post some photos? Tire clearance?
-
Correction to the "at least 143mm". Should be "less than 143mm" for you to avoid frame contact with a 200x57 in the '210' flip chip position.
I took some photos yesterday of my part completed bike bottomed out, showing the clearance between the tyre and seat tube, the crossbrace touching the frame and the 131mm e2e measurement. See photos in my build thread: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2825.0.html
By the way, with a much shorter fork (pike at 130mm), and using xc 29x2.35 tyres, I am getting a very acceptable BB height - around 340-342mm with a 200 e2e shock in the '200' position. I need to check this measurement on flatter ground though. It will go a touch higher when I extend the fork to 140mm, but I'm guessing barely 6mm more. As I am aiming for 340, I will still short shock it, but it looks like I won't need to short shock it much, only about 3-4mm. I am guessing this will get me to pretty much the same setup (travel and geo) as a rocky mountain instinct (non-BC) with it in the 'slack' position.
-
Correction to the "at least 143mm". Should be "less than 143mm" for you to avoid frame contact with a 200x57 in the '210' flip chip position.
I took some photos yesterday of my part completed bike bottomed out, showing the clearance between the tyre and seat tube, the crossbrace touching the frame and the 131mm e2e measurement. See photos in my build thread: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2825.0.html
By the way, with a much shorter fork (pike at 130mm), and using xc 29x2.35 tyres, I am getting a very acceptable BB height - around 340-342mm with a 200 e2e shock in the '200' position. I need to check this measurement on flatter ground though. It will go a touch higher when I extend the fork to 140mm, but I'm guessing barely 6mm more. As I am aiming for 340, I will still short shock it, but it looks like I won't need to short shock it much, only about 3-4mm. I am guessing this will get me to pretty much the same setup (travel and geo) as a rocky mountain instinct (non-BC) with it in the 'slack' position.
Good information, with offset bushes, I can convert 200x57 to 204x57. And put in 210 position.
Or also I can put in inverse and convert it to 196x57 and put in 200mm pos. To slackening the bike
Your bike seems good!
-
You have got me rethinking my idea to short shock the bike. Perhaps I should instead just use offset bushes with my current 200x51 shock... do you get them from offsetbushings.com? What size? Gonna look into it. Gotta ride it first though.
I am also gonna have a go at squeezing a 22.2 into that front shock mount, just in case it fits. I mistakenly put a 21.85 in my other bike for a while, before realising it wasn't quite right, and could fit a 22.2.
Still haven't quite finished building my FM08 yet. But am very very close now. My initial build is turning out to be just about as XC as you could make this frame. I'll update my other thread in the next few hours. Won't be riding it for a while though - there's been about 50mm of rain here over the last couple of days, with more to come.
-
You have got me rethinking my idea to short shock the bike. Perhaps I should instead just use offset bushes with my current 200x51 shock... do you get them from offsetbushings.com? What size? Gonna look into it. Gotta ride it first though.
I am also gonna have a go at squeezing a 22.2 into that front shock mount, just in case it fits. I mistakenly put a 21.85 in my other bike for a while, before realising it wasn't quite right, and could fit a 22.2.
Still haven't quite finished building my FM08 yet. But am very very close now. My initial build is turning out to be just about as XC as you could make this frame. I'll update my other thread in the next few hours. Won't be riding it for a while though - there's been about 50mm of rain here over the last couple of days, with more to come.
Bushes size is 22mm x 8mm with 2mm offset each one! Isn’t expensive, and is easy to install!
I wait for your pictures!
-
I have finished the initial build on my FM08, and have done a very brief test ride - see my thread in the 29er section. I've added a few photos to that thread.
I tried to fit a 22.2 in the front shock mount and couldn't fit it. What info did you receive that suggested you should get 22.2 offset bushings for both ends? For my frame, the Tantan site is silent on this. I had a look at the light Carbon and yishunbike sites (which seem to have the same frame), and they seem to suggest "22".
-
I have finished the initial build on my FM08, and have done a very brief test ride - see my thread in the 29er section. I've added a few photos to that thread.
I tried to fit a 22.2 in the front shock mount and couldn't fit it. What info did you receive that suggested you should get 22.2 offset bushings for both ends? For my frame, the Tantan site is silent on this. I had a look at the light Carbon and yishunbike sites (which seem to have the same frame), and they seem to suggest "22".
Edited ;D
-
Any update?
We are expecting! ;D
-
My build
-
Wow! That looks a bike ready for everything you throw at it.
-
That’s all! Fox X2 ;)
-
Hello everybody
what are your experiences with the framework after a long time now?
do you still drive it?
-
It’s a really good frame, I still ride it ;)