Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Carbon_Dude on April 12, 2014, 09:28:16 PM
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General build order that I did:
Prior to build, I found I should have disassembled frame and greased all pivots. Go ahead and do this before you get started.
1) Install headset, fork, spacers, stem.
1a) Size fork and cut steer tube
2) Install bottom bracket
3) Install crank
4) Install bars
5) Install rear brake
5a) Mount brake caliper on frame
5b) Mount lever on bars
5c) Route brake line through frame (IP-036)
5d) Shorten brake line as needed (use no-bleed method)
6) Install front brake
6a) Mount brake caliper on fork
6b) Mount lever on bars
6c) Shorten brake line as needed (use no-bleed method)
7) Install rear derailleur.
7a) Mount rear derailleur to hanger
7b) Mount shifter to bars
7c) Run cable (IP-036 thru frame)
7d) Cut cable housing as needed, for the IP-036 I ran the cable with housing through the frame.
7e) Connect cable to rear derailleur (don't cut cable yet)
8 ) Install front derailleur (not needed for 1x setups)
8a) Mount front derailleur
8b) Mount shifter to bars
8c) Run cable
8d) Cut cable housing as needed. Install ferrules at each end of cable housing.
8e) Connect cable to front derailleur (don't cut cable yet).
9) Install seatpost & seat
10) Install rear shock
11) Mount tires on wheels
11a) Install disc brake rotors
11b) If needed install free hub (for XX1 a XD hub is needed)
11c) Install rear cassette
11d) If tubeless, apply rim tape & sealant
12 Install wheels front & rear.
13) Install chain
13a) Shorten chain as needed, per mfr instructions
14) Install pedals
15) Install remote rear shock lockout
16) Install remote fork lockout
17) Install Fox cable splitter
18) Adjust front and rear derailleurs for proper shifting, cut cables to final length.
19) Check and torque all bolts
20) Check brakes, go for a test ride
Okay, bike is finished, just took it for a quick test ride around the neighborhood.
Brakes:
I was able to shorten the rear without needing to bleed the brake line, not so lucky on the front, some air got in the line, will bleed the brake tomorrow. Still these XT brakes are amazing, noise free with great stopping power.
Shock Remote Cable Routing:
Ended up putting the hard bend in the cable so the shock body is installed facing forward. Things are working fine but I don't like the bend in the cable. Oh well, it's not like I paid $3k for the frame.
Rear Derailleur Cable:
This took much longer than expected. I originally cut the cable housings and rand bare cable through the frame. As I was setting up the rear derailleur I kept having problems with cable tension, then I noticed the ferrules slipped into the frame (I though son-of-a-b8$ch!). I pulled the housings but had two ferrules stuck inside the frame. Luckily I was able to feed a long piece of housing fully into the frame and knock out the ferrules. At this point I determined I could run a full housing all the way from the shifter, through the frame, and to the rear derailleur. This worked great, XX1 shifts flawlessly.
Fox Shock/Fork Cable Splitter:
This took much longer than expected but got them working nicely. One lever sets Climb-Trail-Decend for both the fork and the shock at the same time. Works really nice, just took a bit of time to figure out cable lengths, and such. Fox has a really good installation guide online.
Wheels:
Wheels look amazing, so happy I decided to go carbon. The XD hub was preinstalled from XMIplay so that saved my from having to purchase an XD hub and throw the standard hub away. The 3K gloss finish on the wheels is flawless also. Applied a layer of Stans rim tape, mounted the Geax tires, added some Orange Sealant and the tires aired right up very easily. Just a test ride but the feel really smooth and stiff.
Issues:
1) Issue with shock corrected with 220psi to set sag properly.
2) Issue with a creak in the lower pivot resolved with some grease. Recommend disassembling all pivot points and applying grease prior to assembly of components.
First Ride Feedback:
1) Tires have a lot of flex, guess it's the 120tpi casing. The GEAX Sugauro tires are soft and grippy.
2) Bike rolls smoothly, suspension works very well. Bike is fast and smooth on downhill section.
3) Bike seems to need a bit more effort to climb than my IP-056.
4) Lockout works well, CTD lever works as advertised.
5) XX1 rear derailleur gave me some trouble. The chain dropped off the 42T cog on me twice, came home and adjusted the High Limit Screw. I think that issue is resolved.
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Hey Carbon_Dude..
I actually have a couple of questions if you don't mind..
1) I know you said you ran the full housing all the way through the frame.. I'd love to do that on my 057 but I've read about having to drill out a couple of spots on the frame to do so. I was wondering how you ran your rear der cable for your 056?
2) Wheels. Daammmnnnniitt!! You're making me seriously consider sending my charger expert wheelset back and hit up Light Bicycle for some carbon rims. Now, did you get them from Light Bicycle or Peter at xmiplay? I think he's offering them now as well?? Almost went that route but the price difference is rather high considering I payed $275 for the Chargers Experts. Too cheap for me to pass up on a respected wheelset that has 15mm front and 142 x 12mm rear. The carbons were going to be about $350 more than that depending on what hubs I went with. When you've had more time on them, I'd love to hear you thoughts on them.
3) So... You have both of the bikes I considered building.. Went with the hardtail.. I dunno.. I just like the idea of a simple carbon, 1x10, light weight, fast, fat tired mtb. I eventually plan on building a full suss as well.. Again, after you get a feel for the bike on some proper trails.. Would be awesome to hear your comparison of the two. Which you like better and why. I know they're different types of bikes but it would still be interesting.
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Hey Carbon_Dude!
I actually have a couple of questions if you don't mind..
1) I know you said you ran the full housing all the way through the frame.. I'd love to do that on my 057 but I've read about having to drill out a couple of spots on the frame to do so. I was wondering how you ran your rear der cable for your 056?
On the IP/FM-056/057 frames you should not need to run full housings as the entry and exit points should have the proper opening size to run cable only with a ferrule at each end. You would only have the housing from the outside of the frame to either the lever or derailleur. If you you are having a problem with the cables, as I guess some have, only then would you drill out the holes (hollow metal inserts) at each end and run full housing. It really should not be an issue either way, do what you feel most comfortable with and what works best for you.
2) Wheels. Daammmnnnniitt!! You're making me seriously consider sending my charger expert wheelset back and hit up Light Bicycle for some carbon rims. Now, did you get them from Light Bicycle or Peter at xmiplay? I think he's offering them now as well?? Almost went that route but the price difference is rather high considering I payed $275 for the Chargers Experts. Too cheap for me to pass up on a respected wheelset that has 15mm front and 142 x 12mm rear. The carbons were going to be about $350 more than that depending on what hubs I went with. When you've had more time on them, I'd love to hear you thoughts on them.
I purchased the wheels through XMIplay (30mm wide bead hook rims, Sapim Spokes & Nipples, Bitex Hubs), Peter told me these are not from Light Bikes so I'm not sure where they are actually fabricated. Yes, the pricing is in the neighborhood of ~$600 for the complete set. It's a great price, and seem to compare favorably against other big name (or Lightbike) wheel sets. My other choice was going to be a set of Stans Arch EX wheels but the cost would have been about the same, the weight would have been 200g more, and they would not be as stiff as a carbon wheels. On my IP-057, I went with a set of DT Swiss Spline XR1450 wheels. The are super light (1450g) and cost about $475 with the XX1 XD Freehub. I've already bent the back rim and had to have it replaced. Peter is coming out with some hookless carbon wheels in the near future. I may consider ordering those rims and rebuilding my IP-057 wheels and reuse the DT Swiss 240 hubs in the future.
3) So... You have both of the bikes I considered building.. Went with the hardtail.. I dunno.. I just like the idea of a simple carbon, 1x10, light weight, fast, fat tired mtb. I eventually plan on building a full suss as well.. Again, after you get a feel for the bike on some proper trails.. Would be awesome to hear your comparison of the two. Which you like better and why. I know they're different types of bikes but it still be interesting.
Okay so I've done one 10mi ride on my local trails with the IP-036. Since it was the first time out, I spent some time adjusting things while out on the trail. Things like seat height, angle, front/back position, lever angle, etc. I had one issue with the rear derailleur and the chain jumping off the 42T cog. I now have all those little issues sorted and plan on doing another ride today. Here are my riding impressions as compared to the IP-057:
1) Geometry feels very different between the two bikes. The IP-036 feels more like the Specialized EPIC Carbon I demoed a few weeks back. The wheelbase feels shorter, giving the IP-036 a quicker steering response. The front wheel just feels a little more tucked under the frame. My relative position between where I sit on the seat and the cranks also feels a little shorter. The effective TT length on the IP-036 is a few mm longer so I went with a 90mm Thomson stem w/ 0 deg rise. It's possible that I may like a 100mm stem more but it's difficult to say at this point.
2) Standing up and pedaling also feels different, I don't feel like I'm getting as much leverage as with the IP-057. It might be the flat bars I chose to install this time. I also purchased a set of riser bars from Peter in case I wanted to switch. So I plan on riding a bit more with the flat bars and if I continue to feel like I may like the riser bar more, just switch out to the riser bar and see if I like them more for my riding.
3) The obvious reason to build a IP-036 over the IP-057 is the full suspension. I initially built the IP-057 for the simplicity of having no rear shock to service and no pivot joints to maintain. I had a 26" Epic and it did require more of my time to maintain and having a proprietary Brain shock I would need to spend some money sending the shock into Specialized to have it rebuilt every few years. I eventually got tired of that and just wanted something with low maintenance so I built the IP-057 and I have to say, I've ridden that bike for about 750mi and the only thing I've done to maintain it is re-grease the bottom bracket.
I would expect the IP-036 to need more maintenance over the next year of riding, but there is plenty of information online on how to rebuild the Fox rear shock, and the pivot points are pretty simple to clean and re-grease or replace the pivot bearings.
I also decided to do lockouts on the front fork and rear shock. The Scott Scale 910 (which this bike is very similar too) has one lever to lock the front and rear shocks, I was able to do something similar using the Fox Cable Splitter, it allows you to use the lockout lever that comes with the fork to also actuate the lockout on the rear shock. This took a bit of fiddling but works pretty well. My biggest complaint with the lockout is with the cable routing to the rear shock, the exit point of the internal routing is very close to the shock causing a hard bend in the cable. It works but is not ideal.
4) Ride difference between a Chinese FS and Chinese HT: The IP-036 rides very smoothly, you can look down and see the pivot moving and working for you while you are on the trail. With the Fox CTD (Climb, Trail, Descend) modes you can change the suspension settings from full open "D", which gives you some pedal bob, to partially locked "T", which removes most of the pedal bob but still allows the suspension to work (this setting is good for pedaling over bumpy terrain). When set to mostly locked, "C" mode, the front fork is fully locked out and the rear shock is mostly locked. There is no pedal bob, and the bike feels very stiff and efficient. Having all these settings allows you to taylor the ride for the varying terrain, it just adds another dimension to your ride that you cannot get with a hard tail.
I will post more on my riding impressions once I get some more miles under me on this new bike.
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^^Very informative write up!
Just like Sitar_Ned, I'm opting for the hard tail purely out of the sake of simplicity. I also like to throw on some road wheels and hit the pavement every once in a while and the hard tail is obviously better for that. Currently trying to decide between the ip057 and ip256 frames.
I will admit to being tempted by this full suspension tho! Will def be following your build thread.
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Just got back from riding the IP-036 a second time. Here are more riding impressions:
1) I still loving how this bike smooths out the trails. We have lots of rocks and roots here in GA and with the suspension fully active it's like the rocks and roots are half the size, you roll over things and they are just way less harsh than on the IP-057. Both frames do a great job with damping small bumps and vibration compared to AL framed bikes I've ridden.
2) I'm starting to trust the new bike a bit more and I'm starting to go even faster downhill. The IP-036 is noticeably more maneuverable than my IP-057 and the rear tire soaking up the bumps just allows for more control and rough downhill sections.
3) Now that I have my seat and controls a bit better adjusted I just felt more comfortable on the second ride. My seat felt better, reach to the brake levers is now exactly right. I'm also starting to like the flat bar a bit more although I do notice that I'm leaned forward a bit more than on my IP-057 with the riser bar. Again, good for downhill action but not as nice on my back as a little more upright position. My stem has 0deg rise so possibly a 6-8deg rise would be helpful.
4) Standing up and pedaling was better this time, and I notice I tend to stand up a bit more on the IP-036 since it's not climbing quite as well as my IP-056 which just feels like it needs a bit less effort to shoot up a moderate incline.
5) My shifting issues are resolved, no more dropping the chain off the 42T rear cog. Not sure why I didn't notice this when I was setting up the derailleur but now when I'm up in that gear my lever travel is topped out, before the lever was pushing the derailleur over just enough to feed the chain beyond the larger rear cog.
6) Braking is still flawless, love the Shimano XT brakes.
7) I do get an odd snap of what feels like the chain once in a while under high load, not often, only one or two times during the ride. Almost like something is sticking and then breaks free. It's a very small snap but I can hear and feel something, just now sure what combination of gear/suspension/terrain seems to cause it.
Overall I'm very happy with the IP-036, the goal was to have a second bike that is different from the IP-057, something with full suspension, something that rides smooth and fast. I think I accomplished my goal with this build.
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Okay, backing up a bit. Here are pictures of my 19" IP-036 frame prior to assembly:
Unboxing:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-3.jpg.html)
I like the way the B&W paint scheme came out. With the white Fox fork I will be adding, the B&W paint scheme will flow better.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-16.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-16.jpg.html)
Frame weight ended up at 2250g (4.95 lbs) as you see it here. XMIplay lists the weight at 1950g which must be for the medium or small size.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-15.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-15.jpg.html)
Would have been nice to see a smoother curve on the edge of the white paint, but hey the price was right.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-11.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-11.jpg.html)
Carbon Fiber Layup Looks REALLY good.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-10.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-10.jpg.html)
The seat tube has more curve than I expected.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-9.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-9.jpg.html)
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In this post I will provide some more detail of the build:
This is how I did my cable routing:
Rear Derailleur (not going to have a front derailleur with the XX1 drivetrain). Ended up running full cable housing through the frame.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-7.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-8.jpg.html)
Rear Brake.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-6.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-6.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-2.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-4.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-4.jpg.html)
Rear Shock Remote Cable:
Entry into the frame is shown in the same pic as the rear derailleur.
Here is where the cable exits. Unfortunately, for the Fox shock, it ends up being a bit tight and puts a sharper bend in the cable.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-5.jpg.html)
The remaining external cable run would be used for the front derailleur.
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Here are some pictures of the bike with the build complete. Finished build weight is 24 lbs (10.9 Kg).
I know if I really wanted to I could easily knock a pound off if I went with lighter (race weight) tires like some Racing Ralphs. The Geax Saguaro TNT tires weighed in at 1590g vs the RR are typically 1100g for a pair. So, 23-24 lbs for a FS bike is pretty nice. My last FS bike was a Specialized Epic 26er which weighed over 28 lbs. Nice to have a bigger bike that's also lighter.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-2.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-3.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-4.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-4.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-6.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon_FS_29er_complete-6.jpg.html)
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Holy crap, man.. No exaggeration.. That thing is bad ass looking!
I'm jealous!
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Not to nit pick your riding style or anything... But you say you notice you stand up on the climbs more with the 036.. Am I mistaken when I think that standard mtb riding advice is that you should sit and spin on a full suss, and stand and mash on a hard tail..
I know I've read that more than once, that of course doesn't mean that it's true.. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
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Not to nit pick your riding style man... But you say you notice you stand up on the climbs more with the 036.. Am I mistaken when I think that standard mtb riding advice is that you should sit and spin on a full suss, and stand and mash on a hard tail..
I know I've read that more than once, that of course doesn't mean that it's true.. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
Ned, I would agree with you, normally I would expect to stand up more on the hardtail, and sit and spin on the FS but with this bike I am just finding it easier to stand up on some of the short up hill sections. Why? I think because I'm losing more momentum on the FS than I would the hardtail.
However, I need to remember, this is a different bike and as such I need to change my riding style to take advantage of having full suspension. As I get a better feel for the new bike I ams sure I will get faster and learn how to better maintain my momentum on the trail. My second ride felt much better than the first and I was a bit faster. I time all my rides with a Planet Bike Protege 9 bike computer. For the trail I ride here in GA, Chicopee Woods, I can turn a 10 mile loop in about one hour, so I target a 10mph average speed. Given the uphills, rocks, roots, creek crossings, ruts, and washed out sections, this is not an easy loop. Now that I have the FS, I can continue to hone my skills and improve me riding.
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The seat tube has more curve than I expected.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-9.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er-9.jpg.html)
Looking at these pics again.. What am I looking at here? Is it supposed to be curved from left to right like that? Doesn't seem like it should be but maybe my perspective is off or something.
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That's a view from the rear dropouts looking toward the head tube. This shows just how curved the seat tube is left to right. Pictures don't do it justice.
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Say CD Question for you. Do you think this frame would work better with a 100mm or 120mm travel front fork?
Thanks,
Andy. :)
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I think it would work well with either 100mm or 120mm fork, I think the amount of travel should depend on the trails you ride. I almost bought a 120mm fork for my build but found a 100mm Fox Evolution w/remote for $400 on eBay. For the trails I ride, 100mm seems to be adequate.
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Thank you. The fork I have for it is set at 120 but I can change it back to 100 if I feel the head tube is too slck w/the 120. Our trails here are very tight and twisty and my buddies on their 26ers will get away from me if I can't corner quick enough. however I've had some nasty pedal strikes with previous bike with bb that were too low.
Any problems with pedal strike on your 100mm fork? Also does the front end feel twitchy w/the 100mm?? Sorry for all the questions I'm just very curious about the bikes handling. Thanks"
Andy
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As a matter of fact I was looking at the clearance on my last ride. The BB would clear a log pile we have on the trail that my old 26" FS Epic would not. I came home and did a quick static measurement of 13.5" but that's without any suspension compression. I am sure 120mm will be fine.
Something else I was noticing was how the wheelbase felt smaller on the IP-036 than the IP-056 but when measured it is about a half inch more on the IP-036.
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That's a view from the rear dropouts looking toward the head tube. This shows just how curved the seat tube is left to right. Pictures don't do it justice.
Okay.. Perhaps I'm being dense here, but what is the purpose of the seat tube being bent from left to right like that? I understand the bend from front to back, but if I would have received that frame I would have intially thought it was defective. Of course, I know nothing of full suspension carbon frame design.
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That's a view from the rear dropouts looking toward the head tube. This shows just how curved the seat tube is left to right. Pictures don't do it justice.
Okay.. Perhaps I'm being dense here, but what is the purpose of the seat tube being bent from left to right like that? I understand the bend from front to back, but if I would have received that frame I would have intially thought it was defective. Of course, I know nothing of full suspension carbon frame design.
Not dense at all Izzy.. I echo that same confusion. Unless we're both dense which is quite possible ;D
Doesn't seem like it should be bent like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a good reason.. I just don't know it.
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I would say the seat tube makes that bend to put the direct mount front derailleur in the right spot.
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^^Yup. Makes sense. Didn't even consider that.
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Updated first post with general build order. In preparation for doing a more detailed build instruction aimed at someone who has never built a bike before.
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Looks great, thanks for posting.
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Thank you and Welcome E_Rock!
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Hi there! First post!
Carbon Dude I think I read somewhere where you said you were in Georgia? I live in the Auburn, Al area, do you think it would be possible for me to come give your IP-036 a test ride sometime?
Of course you're always welcome to come ride the trails here in Auburn too! We've got some sweet new trails that have been built in the last few years!!
Cheers,
Cade
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Welcome to Chinertown Cade!
I would say that your request is a bit of a stretch, but from what I know of CD.. I bet he'd willing to help you out the best he can.
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Well I understand if he doesn't want to. I mean some stranger on a message board asks you if he can take your baby for a test ride?? :o
But I would of course pay if anything were to happen to the bike during the ride. I'm an experienced rider who has lived and ridden advanced downhill trails on the Pacific Crest in Washington and Oregon (owned a SC Nomad at the time).
I'm not asking for a long test ride just a quick 15-20 minute spin on an easy trail to get a feel for the bike and see if I like the 29er as I've never ridden a 29er before.
It's not a big deal if not though I would completely understand!!
Happy Riding!
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Hey Cade.. didn't mean to make you feel bad about asking! I'd be asking too if I lived close by ;)
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Hi there! First post!
Carbon Dude I think I read somewhere where you said you were in Georgia? I live in the Auburn, Al area, do you think it would be possible for me to come give your IP-036 a test ride sometime?
Of course you're always welcome to come ride the trails here in Auburn too! We've got some sweet new trails that have been built in the last few years!!
Cheers,
Cade
Sure, no problem. If you don't ride Eggbeaters, you'll need to bring some pedals. I'd be glad to meet you at one of the local trails and swap bikes with you for a loop around the trail so you can get a good feel for an IP-036. Driver's license and credit card required :).
There's a really nice trail just 15 min from my house so I tend to do a lot of riding there as I can fit in a ride including driving to the trail and back in about 2 hrs. I see Auburn, AL is about 2:25 min from here, not a terribly long trip, including the ride you might be in for a 6 hour trip out and back but hey, I'm up for it if you don't mind driving.
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hey man I really appreciate that! But I just went ahead and sacked up and pulled the trigger on the IP-156 (FS 27.5er). I'll keep y'all posted about how everything goes and definitely post a build thread and some ride reviews when the time comes. I do want to say that Peter and Bert from XMI were extremely helpful and I would buy from them again (and likely will when I'm ready to build a hard tail)!
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Hey Cade.. I'm definitely interested in seeing your 156 build.
Do you currently ride 29er? My next build is definitely a full suspension, and 29er is most likely but I'm open to the smaller wheels.
Mind if I ask what swayed you to the 27.5 over the 29er full suss?
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That's awesome, you will be the first member of Chinertown with an IP-156, look forward to seeing your build progress.
Did you ask for any custom paint work on your frame?
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Yeh...I kinda copied you but don't worry, I got a different color!! So I can't draw like you can but I did my best...but I don't want to spam up your thread so I'll go ahead and start a build thread in the 650b forum!!
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UPDATE:
Changed out the carbon flat bar for a carbon riser bar, when I ordered the frame, I ordered both styles of carbon bars from XMIplay. Width is still 680mm. I was a little concerned that I had cut the cable and brake lines to perfectly reach up to the flat bar and they would be a bit short for the riser bar, not so, lengths are fine.
I'm trying the riser bar to see if it fits me better and is more comfortable. I won't know until the next ride, maybe Wednesday. I can say one thing, flat bars do look a bit better, more race oriented.
Here are a few pics from in the garage, already dark outside so indoor shots only. Please ignore the bike computer, it's functional but kinda sticks out there. Would be nice if I could mount it on the stem, but the mount is designed for the bar.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/IP-036_Riser_Bar-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/IP-036_Riser_Bar-2.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/IP-036_Riser_Bar-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/IP-036_Riser_Bar-1.jpg.html)
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Yeah.. that's a bit too much rise for taste as far as aesthetics is concerned. Of course all that really matters is how it rides.
Love the blue grips tho!
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I agree they have a rather large rise, but my stem has a 0deg angle so no additional height there. I suppose if I had an angled stem I could flip it over for some negative rise and bring the bars down a bit.
I also thought about keeping the flat bars and changing out the stem for one with some positive angle as another option. I'm not a supper aggressive rider and the riser bars on my IP-057 make my seated position really comfortable so who knows.
I get some fatigue in my lower back if I'm to bent over the bars so the riser bars should help there, I also noticed that I could use a bit more weight over the back tires when I stand up and peddle so a riser bar could help a little there too.
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I love riser bars, much more comfortable to me and I feel like I steer a little better with the riser bars; probably has to do with improved fit.
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Update: Did a 10 mile loop after work today and I am really liking the riser bars. Just makes the seated position work better for me. My weight feels more evenly distributed front to back. I adjusted the seat height and angle a bit and I think I've got the bike fitting me very well now. Standing and pedaling is good too. I think I will be keeping the riser bars on the IP-036 for a while, flat bars are going on the shelf.
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That's actually pretty logical - That a riser bar works well on a full squish where you tend to stay seated for more of the ride.
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I'm glad I checked my crank arm to chain stay clearances today because I found a mistake that I made installing my XX1 cranks.
When I built my IP-056 hard tail, I didn't need any spacers but with the IP-036, I now know I should have added a 2.5mm spacer to each side. I'm using a GXP bottom bracket on both bikes and it turns out the IP-036 has a 68mm wide BB where the IP-056 has a 73mm bottom bracket, hence the spacers are needed.
Once I installed the spacers, both sides measure 13mm-14mm clearance. Had I not noticed this mistake I'm sure I would have screwed up my bottom bracket and possibly the crank spindle as the crank was not properly seated into the BB.
Also, my chain line improved by 3mm since the crank on the drive side moved inward and it might be my imagination but I think the XX1 R/D is even shifting better.
Hopefully others that build a IP-036 read this and don't make the same error I made.
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Also ordered the Scott twin-lock lever for my remote suspension lockout. Should be much better than the Fox remote that came with the Fox fork. I hope the Scott lever works, the LBS mechanic said Scott made two versions, one with a 1:1 pull for the fork and shock and then later one with a 1:0.75 pull for the Fox Nude shock that Scott uses on their Spark & Genius in 2013/2014. Hope I get the right one. Cost of the lever was $55 but if it works with my setup, it will be worth it.
(http://www.bicycling.com/sites/default/files/images/Scott_TwinLoc.jpg)
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What exactly is the difference between the Scott lever and the Fox?
The light blue accents on your bike are killer. I assume that started with the egg beater pedals?
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The lever I have is what came with the Fox CTD fork and I added a splitter box that Fox makes so I could control the front fork and rear shock at the same time. The problem is the lever was really only designed to operate the fork lockout so even though it's nice and small but because I am using it to operate both front and rear the lever requires twice the force to engage the lockout.
Second, the CTD shock and fork have a middle setting that you can access when pushing the lever in, but when you hit the release button you don't get the option to select the middle setting, instead it goes to fully unlocked.
Fox does make a lever that is designed to operate both the fork and shock, however, it's really BIG and most people complain that's it's too large. So much so, I'm not even sure Fox still makes it as it's not on their webiste. The Fox lever is still available to purchase online though.
Here is the Fox lever that is not so popular (too big):
(http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2012/04/19/2/ctd_remote_c_600.jpg)
That leaves the Scott Twin-Loc lever, smaller, easier to operate, and works as expected.
Here is the Fox lever I have (too small):
(http://images.evanscycles.com/product_image/image/bda/b6e/460/112583/product_page/fox-racing-shox-ctd-remote-lever.jpg)
Here is the Scott Twin-Loc Lever (just right):
(http://rcdn.mtbr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Scott_Genius710_TwinLoc1.jpg)
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okay, thx for the explanation.
The Scott lever definitely looks better than either Fox option - right in the middle of the two it seems. And is that bolt on the Scott lever perfectly light blue or am I just seeing things? Possibly a dumb question but what does "C" and "D" stand for on the Fox lever? Comfort and Descend? Wild guess. One of the great things about 1x is it completely frees your left hand and bar space for all these new levers for adjustable posts and suspension control.
So basically... You're flying down hill with suspension wide open, you get to the bottom.. and boom, hit one lever and you're suddenly on a fully rigid bike? That's pretty sweet.
Can't wait to see the innovations over the next ten years. I remember seeing an article in Popular Mechanics about 2 years ago that contained an article about a company that was working on a rear derailleur that you controlled with your brain. Totally serious. Let me see if I can find the article. Hopefully that was just some vivid dream I had.
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The light blue accents on your bike are killer. I assume that started with the egg beater pedals?
Agreed. The black carbon, white, and small amount of blue accents is one of the nicer looking color schemes I've seen on any bike, Carbon_Dude. Congrats on an awesome bike build.
The dual suspension lock out with the flip of one lever is something that I could see getting used to and not wanting to ever go without it again.
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I don't think there is any blue color on the Scott Twin-Loc lever bolt, just a reflection possibly.
The letters on the Fox lever are "C-T-D" which stands for Climb-Trail-Descend. It's their three position suspension they've had for a few years now. The Trail mode is really good in that there is very shock movement from pedaling but the suspension is fairly active in response to the terrain. The nice thing about either the Fox or the Scott levers is you are able to select the Trail mode when the lever is moved in either direction, when coming out of D-mode or when coming out of C-mode. Something my shorty lever does not do, when coming out C-mode, the black button release the lever fully to D-mode, no option to catch T-mode on the release.
The next innovation is already here, it's electronic control, either automatic or wireless control from the bar. Rockshox and Fox are already showing maybe even selling their e-suspension options.
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The Trail mode is really good in that there is very shock movement from pedaling but the suspension is fairly active in response to the terrain.
As you may be able to infer from my name. I'm more of a set it and forget it kinda guy. I'm also on a budget. I also don't want to settle if I do pop for a nice full squish. If you only had Trail mode do you think you'd still be content with the ride of your IP-036? I ask because, as you know, if you want to save money on the shock, you lose all those fancy options. That said, depending on your bike's suspension, it may be possible to have a fully capable bike with a more simplified shock set up.
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Trail mode on the Fox shock is great, it has a moderate amount of compliance but you can feel how much less movement you get when pedaling compared to the Decsent mode. Of great interest to you, Rigid, is the non-remote Fox CTD shock also has additional settings for the trail mode allowing you to tune that mode even further. That works for people like you who like to set it and forget it.
The remotes are nice but not necessary, many $8,000 FS carbon bikes don't have remote lockouts. For me it's just something that I liked when I rode the Scott Spark so I decided to put it on my IP-036.
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So the non remote Fox CTD shock lets you have a trail mode that is fine tunable? You say you can feel much less movement between settings so we're not talking about subtle changes in suspension here but completely and drastically different functioning suspensions via the flip of a tiny lever?
Sorry, I've never messed with any of these newer shocks. Had a plain old fox float back in the day when they first started coming out with propedal and all that.
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The change from full open to Trail is moderate, the rear shock tightens up a bit and there is much less movement from pedaling. I'm not able to explain it any more than that, you will need to ride a bike with a CTD rear shock to see it for yourself. I think it works pretty well.
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It seems it takes away the infinite adjustability of most air shocks - which is actually where one sets it to their taste but the Fox gives you, like, a half way point also vs., again, most are where you set them and locked out.....2 settings vs. 3(Fox CTD)
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Okay, I last week I ordered the Scott Twin-Loc lever from my LBS. Finally came in and got it installed and yes the center part is light blue anodized aluminum. I think it looks so much better! It operates so much better than the Fox Remote Lever w/ cable splitter. That Fox lever really needed to go. The Twin-Loc is a much better solution for a dual lockout system.
The bike computer will be moved once I get a mount that fits my 31.6mm bar. Notice the location of the lever next to the hand grip. I originally had the lever inboard of the brake lever (towards the stem), but had difficulty reaching the Twin-Lock lever. Now I changed things around the move the brake lever (on both sides to match) inboard. Works much better now that it's easy to reach and my brake levers are just long enough to easily reach with one finger. Something else I noticed, on the right side, moving my XX1 shifter next to the grip also made a big difference, now I can push the shifter through a greater range and upshift more gears, maybe even a bit faster.
So, here is a new lesson I learned, when you assemble your bike, determine if you want the brake lever or the shift lever(s) next to your grip. I'm sure people will like one way better than the other.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/twin-loc-lever-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/twin-loc-lever-1.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/twin-loc-lever-3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/twin-loc-lever-3.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/twin-loc-lever-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/twin-loc-lever-2.jpg.html)
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Good stuff CD! Do yu have a pic of your new set up on your shifter side of the bars? Thanks,
Anj. :)
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I thought that thing looked light blue.. How awesome is that coincidence? It was meant to be! Def looks tons better but function over form and it sounds like you're finally able to appreciate the full function of your suspension.
Awesome job on this bike, man.. It is quite literally one of my favorites of all the bikes I've stared at pointlessly for the past 6 months.
As for the brake lever position.. With the Shimano, about 3/4 of an inch away from the grip puts the lever at the perfect one finger pull position for me.
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Thanks Andy & SN, just got back from another 10mi loop, this time I also played with a new iOS app called BikeBrain during my ride, I will create another thread about it, but it's pretty cool.
The suspension worked flawlessly today. I'm now starting to like the new IP-036 as much as the IP-057 now that I've gotten things sorted out. Bike computer says I have just over a 100 miles on the bike now. The suspension is just smoothing out the roots and rocks on the single track trails so nicely that I'm starting to think I may start to prefer it over the hard tail. Oops, what did I just say?
I'm getting comments and questions about the bike every time I bring it out on the trail. Today I ran across a guy who was asking about my XX1 setup, he was converting his Santa Cruz hardtail to 1x10, he just installed a Wolfstooth 36T chain ring, which I'm thinking could be too much gear for the climbs we have but hey, he will build up his legs.
A little warm here in GA today, not terrible though, had a great ride.
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I have to agree, extremely nice bike ya got there.
Until reading this thread I honestly was mostly unfamiliar the dual control suspension options that are available. It's all pretty interesting, really and makes me question what exactly it is that I NEED in my bike build. All part of the fun, I suppose.
Good to see that you figured out that the Scott lever was so superior looks like it improved the ergonomics a ton. And yeah.. the baby blue bits are nice too. Got lucky there it seems lol.
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I've added a Dia-Compe Flexi cable housing for improved routing of the rear shock remote. It works well and looks, slightly better than what I had.
If you look back through this thread, I started with a hard S-bend, which was the shortest routing but also added a bit of stiffness to the cable actuation. I've seen a few other people do it this way, it's not bad but not ideal:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_vs_HT-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_vs_HT-2.jpg.html)
Second, I tried changing the direction of pull for the rear shock, then looping the cable around with a tie wrap on the frame. Better but was not crazy about the big loop and the tie wrap.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/29erwheelswap-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/29erwheelswap-2.jpg.html)
A forum member suggested I consider trying a flexible cable housing so I found one on eBay for around $8, how could I go wrong? Took a few weeks to receive from Taiwan and it sat in my garage for a few more weeks until I finally got around to installing it. It's pretty good, cable actuation is smooth, the loop of cable is way more compact than before, and no tie wrap is needed. So, while still not ideal which is nearly impossible given where the cable exits the frame, I think it's pretty good. I also added a piece of clear plastic protection film between the shock and the cable housing to avoid any chaffing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/photo-5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/photo-5.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/photo-4.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/S2k_Dude/media/Carbon%20FS%2029er/photo-4.jpg.html)
Here is the link to the flexible cable housing:
http://www.diacompe.com.tw/product_View.asp?nid=875 (http://www.diacompe.com.tw/product_View.asp?nid=875)
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Thanks for this great thread! It was my inspiration what lead me to order ip 036 frame from Peter/xmiplay. Frame should have shipped yesterday. I think I start building in three weeks time.
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You are welcome.
I was able to get rid of my creaking issue by lubricating the pivots at the top tube and seat stays with some everyday liquid teflon lubricant.
I also replaced my grips with some Ritchey WCS True foam grips, so far they are my favorite grips.
Got about 300 miles on the bike now and she is so much fun to ride. Next change will probably be a new set of tires, probably not right away but after the ones I have wear out I plan on going with another set of Geax Sagauro tires like I have on my IP-057.
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Can someone answer this question for me, this will be my first build and need some clearification. If I order the 036 frame with BB30, will a crankset with a Q factor of 156 work in this configuration?
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Q-factor and BB style are independent of each other.
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Q-factor and BB style are independent of each other.
Sorry for the noob ?'s but I don't understand. Will this crankset, BB30 w/q156, work with the 036 frame?
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If you order a frame with a BB30 bottom bracket and don't mind having about 4-5mm less clearance (8 instead of 13mm or so) between your crank arms and chainstays then you will be fine.
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Thanks for the heads up. I think I'm gonna just go with q168. I had a local guy selling one at a good price and didn't know if I should have jumped on it.
I think I'm gonna give the x1 group a try with xt brakes.....
I am getting ready to order the 036 from Peter soon, trying to check on painting options they have. Did everyone that got there painted like the paint finish?
Also, how are the other parts from Peter, ie handlebars, stem, seatpost, 12x142 maxle, etc..bc I am going to need to order all that he has for the bike.
If anyone selling any extras lmk, I'm in market, lol
CD - thanks for the awesome threads and detailed build!
Chance
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I can marginally recommend the paint work by iPlay. It's not the super high quality paint work you will see on the name brand bikes, but it's better than anything I would do myself and the cost is reasonable.
As for the other parts from Peter, they all seem to be pretty good, bars, seatpost, axles, etc. Reasonable prices on decent quality items.
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CD if you're a Geax fan you just gotta try the Gato 2.3 up front. Rolls fast, comfy and incredible grip. Highly recommended!!!!
Andy
Ip036
Ltk023
You are welcome.
I was able to get rid of my creaking issue by lubricating the pivots at the top tube and seat stays with some everyday liquid teflon lubricant.
I also replaced my grips with some Ritchey WCS True foam grips, so far they are my favorite grips.
Got about 300 miles on the bike now and she is so much fun to ride. Next change will probably be a new set of tires, probably not right away but after the ones I have wear out I plan on going with another set of Geax Sagauro tires like I have on my IP-057.
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Thanks Andy! When I'm ready for some new tires, I will look into that combo.
On another note, I won't be riding for a while, I broke my leg while on vacation last week. A pretty bad break too, looks like I'll need surgery on it to make sure everything heals properly.
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That's a tough break Carbon_Dude (pardon the pun!).
Get well soon...
(I'm using your thread to assemble a 27.5 full suspension Yoeleo for my daughter this week)...
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Carbon_Dude -- you have both a hard tail and a soft tail. Did you buy the same frame size for the two? How different is the geometry?
I have a 19 inch hard tail (Yoeleo), and I'm just about to order a 19 inch soft tail (also Yoeleo), but I'd thought I'd check with someone whom has both a HT & ST before I commit...
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Carbon_Dude -- you have both a hard tail and a soft tail. Did you buy the same frame size for the two? How different is the geometry?
I have a 19 inch hard tail (Yoeleo), and I'm just about to order a 19 inch soft tail (also Yoeleo), but I'd thought I'd check with someone whom has both a HT & ST before I commit...
Yes, same frame size for both. For me, at 5'-11", a Large (19") frame fit me well for both frames.
Geometry is different, even though the FS frame has a longer wheelbase, I feel like my seating position is a bit further forward. However, both frames feel good and the geometry on both frames performed well. Obviously there are differences and some compromises on a FS frame given the greater complexity. The geometry of the IP-057 is similar to a Scott Scale, the IP-036 is similar to a Scott Spark if that helps you at all.
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Yes, same frame size for both. For me, at 5'-11", a Large (19") frame fit me well for both frames.
Geometry is different, even though the FS frame has a longer wheelbase, I feel like my seating position is a bit further forward. However, both frames feel good and the geometry on both frames performed well. Obviously there are differences and some compromises on a FS frame given the greater complexity. The geometry of the IP-057 is similar to a Scott Scale, the IP-036 is similar to a Scott Spark if that helps you at all.
Thanks Carbon_Dude, I've committed. There is a 5% discount for the next fortnight with Yoeleo, which helps with the Aussie $ having dropped by 10% against the USD in the last 6 months... arrghh!!
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Hello Friends.
Im looking to buy a IP-036 from Peter.
Could someone give me more specifcs on shock configuration?
Its a 165x38mm shock, correct?
And what about bushings, wich ones do i need and measures? I was looking at some shocks and every store says "No bushings included, you will need to buy a pair". And then there is a lot of measures.
Thanks for the help!
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Yes 165x38 or 6.5x1.5. I measured my 036 at 22.2 and 22.7mm so i purchased two RWC http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id275.html one shim. I used a digital caliper to measure the gaps but others have reported 22.2 on both sides.
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Yes 165x38 or 6.5x1.5. I measured my 036 at 22.2 and 22.7mm so i purchased two RWC http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id275.html one shim. I used a digital caliper to measure the gaps but others have reported 22.2 on both sides.
Thanks for the reply!
So i would need the shock + 2 X 22.2 rwc mounting spans (62 bucks) ?
Im planning on using a DT Swiss Shock. Could i use 2 of these sets:
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=6310;page=1;menu=1000,2,119;mid=0;pgc=0;orderby=2
In the 22.2 measure. If yes... would it be 8mm ? Thanks
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yes mine were 8mm. Those dtswiss bearings are a bit different than the RWC so I am not sure. Right 2x22.2 and one shim possibly.
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yes mine were 8mm. Those dtswiss bearings are a bit different than the RWC so I am not sure. Right 2x22.2 and one shim possibly.
Thanks again!
From what i was reading those on RWC are kind of a new deal for Shox. They are replacing the DU Bushings with Needle Bearing wich according to then is wayyy better! The link i post was from DU Bushings style.
Im really thinking in ordering one of those IP-036... i was about to buy a Niner Jet 9... but even on sale the price is more then double!
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Im really thinking in ordering one of those IP-036... i was about to buy a Niner Jet 9... but even on sale the price is more then double!
[/quote]
Do it! You won't regret it! I've had mine for 6 months and absolutely freakin' love it. I've had lots of mtn bikes in the past and this one blows them all away!
IP036
LTK023
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Hello CD.
Let me first say that is a sweet bike you built. I have a 2014 Scott Genius 930 29er stock. Only went 1x10 from triple by putting a single chainring up front.
http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Scott/Genius-930,13390#product-specs
Can I buy this frame and transfer every single component I have on my Scott to this frame?
The first question mark is the rear shock. It's a 130 mm. Can that shock be altered so that it turns to a 110-120 mm?
Is there anything else I am overlooking?
Primary goal for the swap is weight savings.
Are you still happy with the frame, would you do this change?
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Hi Polo, I sent you this in a PM but for the benefit of others I will post my response here as well. Maybe someone else can chime and and provide some info on reusing your BB92 cranks in a BSA or BB30 frame. That's something I don't know about.
Swapping your Scott Genius 930 frame to an IP/CS-036 frame like have, we can look at the possibility of reuse component by component:
Fox Nude Shock - You will need a shock that is 6.5" x 1.5" (or 165mm x 38mm). Your Fox shock is 190mm x 50mm so I don't think that will work, although you could take a wait and see approach, perhaps if you get the right bushings you could make it work. Otherwise, I would recommend selling the shock with the frame anyway. A new shock is about $400.
Frame - Upgrade to an CS-036 would be what I'd recommend as it's essentially a Scott Spark from, however, this FS frame is not available in BB92 like your Scott Genius. Your only other choice becomes a Carbonal Titan 29er which is available in a BB92 bottom bracket.
Fork - Fox CTD, should be able to reuse as long as the steer tube was not cut down too much. You need to measure your fork, from crown to top of stem and check and see if there is enough steer tube remaining to fit your new frame. Alternatively, if you can find the head tube length of your current frame and compare it to the Titan head tube length in the size frame you want.
Headset - You wil most likely need to purchase a headset to go with your new frame, chances are slim that your Genius headset will be the correct size for the Titan frame. Most likely you would also sell the headset with the frame.
Stem - Yes, should be able to reuse.
Handlebar - Yes, should be able to reuse.
Grips - Yes.
Brakes Levers/Calipers/Rotors - Yes, should be able to reuse, however you may need to run new rear brake lines if a longer line is needed for the new frame. A new line is not expensive, however you will need some brake fluid and learn how to bleed your Shimano brakes. However, it looks like you have a 180mm rear rotor which may need an adapter plate, 160mm is a standard rear rotor. If your Scott frame has the right adapter, you could reuse it on the Titan. You should have not problem with the front brakes as they are independent of the frame.
Shifters - Yes, they mount to the same bar you already have.
Front Derailleur - Maybe. You will need to ask Carbonal what FD the Tita uses. Otherwise, a new FD is not that expensive, less than $100 in most cases. However, you said you are running a 1x setup so reusing your FD is not an issue unless you want to convert back to using a FD in the future.
Rear Derailleur - Yes. This should not be a problem. However, again, you may need a new cable if the Titan frame has a longer run from the bars to the RD.
Cranks - Yes, if the new frame is the same BB spec, meaning both are BB92 like on the Carbonal Titan, you should be able to reuse. However, if you are wanting to swap to the CS-036 then you will either need to find a way to adapt your cranks or buy new.
Bottom bracket - Yes, as long as both frames are BB92 like the Carbonal Titan, the bottom bracket should fit. However, if going to the CS-036 then you will need a new BB.
Pedals - Yes.
Chain - Maybe. If the distance from the cranks to the cassette is similar, otherwise you will need to add/remove links. It's easy to remove links, harder to add them. Otherwise your in need of a new chain, about $30 or so depending one what you get.
Cassette - Yes, goes with the wheels.
Front wheel - Yes, goes with your fork.
Rear wheel - Not sure. Your Scott bike is a 142x12 according to the specs. The Titan is 135x10 axle. You would need to contact Carbonal to see if they have 142x12 rear dropouts available for the frame. They might although I would think they would advertise this as a feature/option of the Titan frame. If the Titan does not have the newer 142x12 thru axle, then you will need to convert your rear hub to 135x10. Some hubs have the ability to convert. You will need to ask your local Scott Bikes dealer if your rear hub will convert.
Otherwise you are back to the CS/IP-036 frame as it has the 142x12 dropout that work with your rear hub, however, you would then need to buy a set of cranks. However, there might be an adapter that you can install in a BSA or BB30 BB in the frame that will accept your cranks. Really not sure, you would need to do some research.
Tires - Yes :). That's an easy one.
Saddle - Yes.
Seatpost - Yes, your Scott post is a 31.6mm according to the specs, so it will work in either the CS-036 or Titan.
Seatpost clamp - Yes.
If you are upgrading to save weight, you might drop about 2 lbs. Not a lot but every little bit helps. Not to mention a carbon frame rides much smoother than an AL frame.
Hope my reply helps and good luck with your upgrade.
-Dave
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Thank you CD for such a comprehensive answer. This is great information!
Let me tell you that I will lean towards the IP/CS-036 as a Spark is the bike I wanted all along. Got the Genius because the price was absolutely ridiculous.
Main problem with IP/CS-036 frame is the crankset. Main problem with the Carbonal Titan 29er is the 142x12 thru axle. Correct?
Now that you know my preference,
What is the most cost-effective path here?
Which frame is better (performance, less issues) regardless of cost, ease of transfer?
Regards.
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@Polo7
Did you consider putting your money into better wheels rather than better frame?
I bet you will feel every gram saved from wheels more than frame weight saving. If you need more comfortable ride go for the frame obviously.
Consider some carbon rims with tubeless light tires and the bike will fly.
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Hi Polo, I sent you this in a PM but for the benefit of others I will post my response here as well. Maybe someone else can chime and and provide some info on reusing your BB92 cranks in a BSA or BB30 frame. That's something I don't know about.
BB92 is just the bearings from a BSA external bearing bottom bracket pressed directly into a wider BB housing. My wife's Scale has the BB92 and the bike came with standard Shimano cranks which are now in a bike with a BSA threaded bottom bracket.
Frame - Upgrade to an CS-036 would be what I'd recommend as it's essentially a Scott Spark from, however, this FS frame is not available in BB92 like your Scott Genius. Your only other choice becomes a Carbonal Titan 29er which is available in a BB92 bottom bracket.
The 036 has the BSA option, so get an external bottom bracket and you're good to go.
cmh
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Thank you for this advice. You guys are experts at this stuff. Just starting out in the MTB world.
How much is an external bottom bracket?
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@Polo7
Did you consider putting your money into better wheels rather than better frame?
I bet you will feel every gram saved from wheels more than frame weight saving. If you need more comfortable ride go for the frame obviously.
Consider some carbon rims with tubeless light tires and the bike will fly.
What carbon wheels do you recommend?
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Hi there,
I am looking for some info :-)
I am about to build up a CS-036 from Peter. And I know triple crank sets are totally out of fashion but this bike is for a friend of mine and she insists on a triple! Can someone tell me what front derailleur I need to get for a XT crank set with 42/32/24??
BB is going to be BSA.
Many thanks,Marcel.
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I'm ready to order my first FS carbon from Peter (CS-036) but he said it would take 55 days for UD and 90-100 days for 3k. Did it take you that long to have it made? Contacted ICAN bikes and they have UD matte in my size available. Did any of you order from ICAN bikes? I think most ordered from Peter and had great exp but I'm hoping to have the frame asap.
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I think the factory made the frame in batches (one size at the time in one design (UD/3K/12K)). En not only for CarbonSpeed, but also for other companies.
And maybe ICAN got some stock ...
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Thanks.
Has anyone dealt with ICAN? How was it? Good service/warranty and do they have frame issues?
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CarbonSpeed, Iplay, Hongfu, Dengfu, Miracle, Ican all sell 036 FS frames which are made in same factory.
We sell frames everyday, so the inventory changes every day. Sometimes we sell same size same BB frames very well in a same day, we have to arrange production again so the lead time will be around 45-55 days. And our factory makes frames in UD finish mostly, if you need 3K weave frame, the lead time will be same 90-100 days even longer from all above companies.
Some customers want cheaper price, some want less lead time, but I think most would like best service before and after ordering. Anyway hope all guys can get what they want and no quality or warranty issues.
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Hey CD,
Looks (correct me if I'm wrong) that my current fork is the same one you used on your IP-036 build.
http://chinertown.com/index.php?topic=25.0
I have a 2014 FOX 32 Float Evolution CTD Air fork. Will have to confirm via serial number, but it looks like I could lower the travel from 130 to 100 mm.
http://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=32 (2013-2015 32 float changing travel video)
Will try and research more about my rear shock. But it looks I have no option but to buy new one, correct?
The 036 has the BSA option. Will getting an external bottom bracket that converts it to BB92 solve this? Is this not optimal?
Thanks in advance.
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Hey CD,
Looks (correct me if I'm wrong) that my current fork is the same one you used on your IP-036 build.
http://chinertown.com/index.php?topic=25.0
I have a 2014 FOX 32 Float Evolution CTD Air fork. Will have to confirm via serial number, but it looks like I could lower the travel from 130 to 100 mm.
http://www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=32 (2013-2015 32 float changing travel video)
Will try and research more about my rear shock. But it looks I have no option but to buy new one, correct?
The 036 has the BSA option. Will getting an external bottom bracket that converts it to BB92 solve this? Is this not optimal?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Polo7, you really don't need to post and PM me the same message. I will post my reply below for others to read since you addressed your reply to me.
Looks like the same fork. However, I do not know what it takes to change the travel. Most likely you would need to buy a new internal cartridge or something. I know some forks are easier to change the travel, just not sure about the Fox CTD. I've never taken one apart.
As for the rear shock, I would say it is likely that you would need to buy a new shock for the frame.
I am no authority on bottom brackets, I guess there was someone on the forum who said you could convert a BSA to BB92 but you will need to do some research and figure out what you need to purchase to reuse your cranks.
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As far as I know BB92 cranks have the same spindle diameter as most BSA cranks (24mm). The BB shell width is 91.5mm in the BB92 system (with the bearings inside the frame, you should probably measure that yourself to be sure, as there were some 86.5mm shells too). BSA is 73mm wide, so if you find external bearings with 18.5 mm width total, it should work just fine. THM should have some, maybe aerozine as well.
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Thank you.
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Hey CD, what exact Fox rear shock model did you purchase? What reducer hardware/bushings did you buy to fit it to the frame?
036 rear travel specs say 110-120 mm. rear travel for the frame.
What is your rear shock travel on Climb, Trail, and Descend mode?
Regards.
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The only spec on the shock is that it's 6.5 x 1.5. Bushings could be frame specific, you may need a slightly different width than I have. One of the bushings that came with the shock was fine, the other needed to be changed. Once you know the width you need for your frame, it's easy enough to order them from Pricepoint.
The IP-036 is supposed to have about 110mm of rear travel.
As for travel, I assume Descend mode is full travel, 110mm, Trail is about half of that, and Climb is firm with only about 10% travel.
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Newbe questions here.
How much did the IP-036 frame run? Where did you buy it? And does it have a strait or tapered head tube?
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Newbe questions here.
How much did the IP-036 frame run? Where did you buy it? And does it have a strait or tapered head tube?
Around $700, Peter now at www.xmcarbonspeed.com, yes tapered head tube.
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Cool thanks for the info. I'm considering getting that frame as my base for a new build up this winter.
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After sending my shock off to Fox for them to check the damper system, I got it back and decided to try reversing the mounting for improved, simplified cable routing. The cable stop on the shock needed to be flipped around but so far this is the cleanest way I have found to route the cable to a fox shock on my IP-036. Notice the cable saver where the cable sits against the lower portion of the shock.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/IMG_0577.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/IMG_0576.jpg)
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The more I read the more this seems to be the frame that fits my needs and type of local riding. It's also the frame that gives me the most re-usability of my current parts.
I find myself spending hours looking at this frame and rereading this build.
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The more I read the more this seems to be the frame that fits my needs and type of local riding. It's also the frame that gives me the most re-usability of my current parts.
I find myself spending hours looking at this frame and rereading this build.
Thanks! Glad I could help.
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Any upside or downside for flipping the rear shock?
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So far all is good with the shock flipped around. My only concern would be the shock oil may not lubricate as well but I can't be sure about that. The performance does not seem to have been affected.
I've also seen a few brand name companies flip the shock around. I'm sure if I called Fox and spoke with the tech, he'd probably have the same concern as me.
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So far all is good with the shock flipped around. My only concern would be the shock oil may not lubricate as well but I can't be sure about that. The performance does not seem to have been affected.
I've also seen a few brand name companies flip the shock around. I'm sure if I called Fox and spoke with the tech, he'd probably have the same concern as me.
It's not like you're mounting it completely upside-down. Just make sure you do the seal service regularly - you know, just like you're supposed to do anyway! :D
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So far all is good with the shock flipped around. My only concern would be the shock oil may not lubricate as well but I can't be sure about that. The performance does not seem to have been affected.
I've also seen a few brand name companies flip the shock around. I'm sure if I called Fox and spoke with the tech, he'd probably have the same concern as me.
It's not like you're mounting it completely upside-down. Just make sure you do the seal service regularly - you know, just like you're supposed to do anyway! :D
Yep, I did do an air seal service before mounting it as shown. The service is simple and the parts are fairly inexpensive. I also clean the shock stantion before each ride. I think it shouldn't be problem and I do like the cable routing. The only other thing that is different is the cable now flexes with the compression of the shock since the distance between the cable exit hole and the shock now varies. This also shouldn't be an issue but I will keep an eye on things.
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I am thinking of building one of these to compliment my ip-256 and have a couple questions...
1) How is the rear triangle holding up?
2) Any issues with bike?
2) Anybody tried plus size tires yet? What is the minimum clearance at chainstays and seatstays? I think I read it was 73mm if someone could verify that would be great.
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For me the rear triangle is holding up fine. After one season of riding I pulled the pivot bearings and re-greased them. There is a slight amount of play in the linkage but has not changed since day one. Seems this is typical for all IP-036 frames and I'm sure if I want to fix the issue, all I would need are a few shims where the shock mounts to the rear triangle.
I have had no issues with my bike thus far. Initially I though I had some play in the headset but after a couple tries go things tighten up there. I'm sure a star nut would work better than the compression nut that comes with the Neco headset.
I think someone has tried 27.5" wide rims and plus tires, I think Peter even said they work but I'm not sure exactly which tires. Not sure about 29"+ tires though. I haven't measured the clearance personally, will do if I get a chance this weekend.
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I just sold my IP/CS-036 this past weekend. It was a fun bike but I'm not looking ahead to building another plus bike, probably a 27.5"x3.0" full suspension version. Peter has a CS-M04 frame that looks pretty good.
After two years of riding the -036 I enjoyed how well it rode but after getting my 29+ bike, I found the bigger tire size just made both my 057 and 036 bikes obsolete. The -036 has a steeper head tube angle that just made the bike feel twitchy and less stable on the fast sections, but it did climb really well, especially with the ability to control the suspension with the twin-loc remote lever.
I also have my 057 for sale, so if I also sell it, I will be looking at a new build. I will keep you guys up to date on what happens next.
I was a little sad to see the bike go but I think my next build will be even better. Goodbye -036.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/IMG_0635_lowres3.jpg)
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It is interesting the top racers are not using + wheels and bikes( so far ).
A same kind of resistance happens in road bikes with disc brakes. Cycling has a very conservative crowd.
Something strange about the CS-M04, is that it is only available for the US and Canada.
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It is interesting the top racers are not using + wheels and bikes( so far ).
A same kind of resistance happens in road bikes with disc brakes. Cycling has a very conservative crowd.
Something strange about the CS-M04, is that it is only available for the US and Canada.
What type of race would use + bikes ? They are slow for XC, slow for Enduro and Slow for downhill. + is not a racing bike, it's just a in between fat and regular.
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I think Plus bikes will be in racing, but not until the weight of a plus bike is closer to a race bike, it might take another couple years. I see 27.5+ breaking into Enduro first.
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I just sold my IP/CS-036 this past weekend. It was a fun bike but I'm not looking ahead to building another plus bike, probably a 27.5"x3.0" full suspension version. Peter has a CS-M04 frame that looks pretty good.
After two years of riding the -036 I enjoyed how well it rode but after getting my 29+ bike, I found the bigger tire size just made both my 057 and 036 bikes obsolete. The -036 has a steeper head tube angle that just made the bike feel twitchy and less stable on the fast sections, but it did climb really well, especially with the ability to control the suspension with the twin-loc remote lever.
I also have my 057 for sale, so if I also sell it, I will be looking at a new build. I will keep you guys up to date on what happens next.
I was a little sad to see the bike go but I think my next build will be even better. Goodbye -036.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/IMG_0635_lowres3.jpg)
Where are you selling them ?
I want to sell my wife 036 with XX1 + XT Brakes, + Monarch XX + SID World Cup fork.
I would also sell my M06 with same XX1 + XT Brakes, + Monarch XX + SID World Cup fork.
And could even sell my 57 with XX1 + XT Brakes + SID World Cup
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Hi,
I've had an o36 since 2014 and still going strong. As some owners may know there's an annoying bit of play when you lift the bike off the floor. This play does not get worse over time.
i'm glad to report that the fix for this is very simple; after many years of periodically looking to see what could be causing this give, I've found the play is due to the cylindrical bars which pass through each shock eyelet.
It seems the length of the bars are two long for the frame and need thin shims added.
This play had made me buy the RWC needle bearing kit to no affect years ago, so the mystery is now solved.
Hope this helps someone, not that the play affected the ride once you sat on the bike but I've yet to ride it off road. I might find it rattles less along the trail or brings a smoother suspension feel, not sure!!!
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It seems the length of the bars are two long for the frame and need thin shims added.
Thank you for this !!
Just to clarify, would you mind to post a picture of the shims you added ?
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Just to clarify
I don't think I described the solution properly. I have bushings in my shock eyelets . For each eyelet you have a 3 pc bush kit. The two bushings that slide over the cyclindrical pivot bar are not wide enough to take up the gap to the left and right of the frame.
To be honest, I used small rubber o-rings I had laying around as I had no metal shims to fit, but the affect will be the same.
I'll try to post pictures, but hopefully everyone will get my drift.
Well hopefully after sourcing correct size shims in metal, this will turn out to be a legit fix.
best regards
PS, I've also put up my DIY stealth dropper mod over on MTBR.
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Hi All
Looking to upgrade my wifes bike to something full suspension - ideally 26" wheels on a small medium frame.
Ive got most bits to build it so ideally a frame and shock but open to anything at this stage
No major rush just fancy building her something a little nicer to use
cheers
Matt