Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Joelk on September 18, 2015, 08:32:24 PM
-
I ordered a CS-092SL disc brake road bike frame from Peter at http://www.xmcarbonspeed.com (http://www.xmcarbonspeed.com) earlier this week. This is a disc brake thru axle road bike.
Peter estimates 45-50 days so I will be adding some more info on the frame, parts ordered, and ongoing updates in the coming weeks.
Geometry
(http://s30.postimg.org/ndwkp35ch/CS_092_SL_road_disc_frame_geometry.png)
Picture
(http://s23.postimg.org/hfj7s0yuz/092_SL_frame_1.jpg)
-
A little technical info:
It uses a BB86 bottom bracket, 100 x 15mm 100 x 12mm front thru axle, 142 x 12mm rear thru axle, and a proprietary D shaped seatpost that comes with the frame and fork.
It uses the new flat mount road brake standard, which can use a 140mm or 160mm front rotor (depending on the orientation of the front brake mounting plate, and a 140mm rear rotor (which can be changed to a 160mm rotor with an adapter plate).
My plans:
Mostly Shimano Ultegra 2x11 build
Shimano ST-RS685 shifters/brake levers and BR-RS805 brake calipers.
Hope hubs
TM38C-25 tubeless ready carbon clincher rims, 25mm wide, 38mm deep, no brake track(from Peter).
Carbon B6 bars (from Peter).
Going to use a 100mm stem I have laying around until I decide what length I want.
Edited to correct front axle size to new specs.
-
Looks awesome, when are you supposed receive your frame? I'm hoping to place an order in a month or so, planning ultegra di2. Looking forward to seeing your build.
-
Looks awesome, when are you supposed receive your frame? I'm hoping to place an order in a month or so, planning ultegra di2. Looking forward to seeing your build.
Thanks. Peter said 45-50 days on the frame, and 15 days on the rims, plus shipping, as they all had to be made for my order.
I will update as parts, from xmcarbonspeed and elsewhere (Ultegra, but not di2), arrive with weights and pics, along with my impressions. Just keep in mind I am a mountain bike guy building a road bike as I find myself riding my hard tail on the road when the trails are wet/muddy.
-
Thank you for the geometry information.
I'm quite desperate to find a frame that suits my odd long leg/short torso proportions.
For now only the gravel bikes of the big brands seemed an option.
But this one, with a 90mm stem could do it.
Do you know the tire clearance of the CS-092 ?
Can we ride 28mm+ on it ?
-
Peter said the max tire size is 28.
I hope I can still fit 28s on the 25mm (17mm inside width) rims I am getting. That will be the first thing I check when the frame arrives.
-
I'm very excited to see your build thread. I would like to build one of these frame soon when I have the funds.
-
Parts are starting to roll in. If anyone wants weights or anything just let me know.
Ultegra cranks, derailleurs, cassette, and Hope hubs
(http://s16.postimg.org/6d0kycokl/20150930_162443_1.jpg)
The flat mount road brakes and 160(f)/140(r) rotors
(http://s21.postimg.org/tmcaf0n13/20150930_162727_1.jpg)
Hopefully the rims ship soon so I can get the spokes ordered, and build them up while I wait, as patiently as I can, for the frame.
-
Thank you for the update.
Did you roughly estimate the final weight of the bike?
I thought the Hope hubs were not appropriate for a road bike.
On their website, they do not advertise it as such, may be just for their weight?
-
Thank you for the update.
Did you roughly estimate the final weight of the bike?
I thought the Hope hubs were not appropriate for a road bike.
On their website, they do not advertise it as such, may be just for their weight?
No estimate on the weight. I am not going weight weenie on this as I weigh about 215.
I will post the weight of the carbon parts from Peter/xmcarbonspeed.com when I get them, and the final bike weight when done.
This frame uses a 15x100 100x12 front thru axle and a 142x12 rear thru axle so I decided to use the same hubs I use on the MTB as I am comfortable with them and the cost is quite reasonable. I did have to change the freehub to a 11 speed shimano style, which can be done on the newer Hope MTB hubs. I am also going with 32 spokes. That way I can always use the wheels on the MTB with just a freehub change if I ever wanted to. If I really love the road bike I will build some lighter wheels, still with carbon rims from Peter, later.
Edited as the spec on the fork got changed to 100x12. Fortunately Hope has 100x12 endcaps available.
-
Joelk, awesome! Thanks for posting this. I'm looking forward to your updates.
-
Parts are starting to roll in. If anyone wants weights or anything just let me know.
Ultegra cranks, derailleurs, cassette, and Hope hubs
(http://s16.postimg.org/6d0kycokl/20150930_162443_1.jpg)
The flat mount road brakes and 160(f)/140(r) rotors
(http://s21.postimg.org/tmcaf0n13/20150930_162727_1.jpg)
Hopefully the rims ship soon so I can get the spokes ordered, and build them up while I wait, as patiently as I can, for the frame.
Are those mechanical calipers?
-
No, hydraulic, Shimano BR-RS805.
-
Hi Joelk, can you post the weight for the BR-RS805 brake calipers, I just purchased the di2 levers and they come with the BR-r785. It looks like the frame supports the new flat mount design. The BR-rs805 looks to add a cleaner overall look on the bike. I didn't know these were already released.
-
Hi Joelk, can you post the weight for the BR-RS805 brake calipers, I just purchased the di2 levers and they come with the BR-r785. It looks like the frame supports the new flat mount design. The BR-rs805 looks to add a cleaner overall look on the bike. I didn't know these were already released.
Yes, the frame and fork use the new flat mount road standard.
When I ordered the frame nobody had the flat mount brakes yet, but about 2 weeks ago the shifter/brake set came into stock at Bike24.com. Just the calipers themselves also appear to be in stock https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=141700;page=1;menu=1000,4,320,322;mid=931;pgc=0 (https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=141700;page=1;menu=1000,4,320,322;mid=931;pgc=0) there too.
The bare caliper weighs 111 grams, the pads weigh 16 grams, and the mounting plate for the front adds 15 grams.
If you want any more info or pictures, just let me know.
-
Hi Joelk, thanks for the quick and thorough response. Not sure I can justify the added expense although, it might be best to build it "right" from the get go. I was hoping there was going to be some weight savings with the new calipers the br-r785s weighed in at 114 grams so quite negligible. I ordered the frame from Peter a couple days ago, this 45 day lead time is going to kill me.
-
At least if you go with the flat mount brakes you don't need to buy additional adapters. However if you do go with the adapters Bike24 is the only place that I have seen them in stock yet https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=142082;page=1;menu=1000,4,320,322;mid=931;pgc=0 (https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;navigation=1;product=142082;page=1;menu=1000,4,320,322;mid=931;pgc=0)
I am guessing that when you said 5 day lead time it was a typo, but maybe your frame was in stock? The wait is killing me too, I am just hoping my rims ship soon so I can start on building the wheels to kill a little of the wait time.
-
Yeah sorry 45 day lead time. Found this video I'm pretty convinced that the Br-rs805s are the way to go.
I only wish they were compatible with the shimano mtb brake pads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58RzMDlD0F8&feature=youtu.be
-
Just got the email from Peter that my rims and axles have shipped. Pictures and weights will be posted when they arrive.
-
I received the TM38C-25 tubeless ready carbon clincher rims, 25mm wide, 38mm deep, no brake track and axles yesterday.
The front axle weighs 83 grams, the rear 79 grams. Edited to add: Disregard the front axle, as the fork spec got changed to 100x12 and the pictured axle is 100x12. I will update when the 100x12 axle arrives.
(http://s3.postimg.org/5kmy1r7tf/20151021_113147.jpg)
The rims weigh 455 and 466 grams, a little under than the listed 470 grams!
With a 28mm tire
(http://s13.postimg.org/99j0qsbvr/20151022_113910.jpg)
Bare, with a zombie bear keeping it from sliding (the girlfriend is getting ready for Halloween).
(http://s29.postimg.org/fz7nsf5vb/20151022_113947.jpg)
Side profile
(http://s29.postimg.org/mthyi3yif/20151022_114013.jpg)
Tubeless rim bed
(http://s29.postimg.org/5b3wtkvw7/20151022_114120.jpg)
(http://s8.postimg.org/4b22udplh/20151022_114239.jpg)
The finish and quality on the rims looks great. The ERD was listed at 569, and came out to 570 when I measured it. Ordered spokes, and looking forward to building the wheels when they arrive.
-
If you have the patience, some pictures of the wheel building would be very interesting.
-
If you have the patience, some pictures of the wheel building would be very interesting.
OK.
-
Any updates Joelk?
-
Spokes (Sapim C-xray) are in transit for the wheel build.
I am still waiting on the frame, but Peter let me know that it would be a while when I ordered it. Hopefully it will ship in a week or so.
-
I spoke with Peter yesterday, the CS-092sl fork will have 100 x 12 mm thru axle and not the 100 x 15mm thru axle as previously expected.
-
Well that kind of sucks from my point of view as Peter sent me a 100x15 front axle, and I have already built my 100x15 front wheel based on what axle Peter said it used when I ordered the frame. Hopefully Hope makes 100x12 endcaps for my hubs or this will be a big problem.
I have some wheel build pics, per carbonazza's request, that I will try to get posted tomorrow when I have some more time.
-
Hopefully yours will be a 100x15 as ordered. Did you contact Peter?
It looks that all builders are slowly settling on the 100x12.
-
Our frames are going to come with a 100 x 12mm fork. I'm in a similar position with a 100 x 15mm dt-swiss 240s front hub. I can't seem to find anyone who sells the 12mm end caps. They are posted on dt-swiss's website but aren't for sale as of yet.
-
I have sent an email to Peter, and one to Hope to see if their 100x12 endcaps are available, as they list them on their site, but I cannot find anyone selling them.
ETA: As ususal great communication from Peter, but not the best news. My fork is 100x12, but he does not have 100x12 axles yet. He is going to ship my frame, and other parts, then ship the axle when he gets it.
Also spoke to Hope, and they have the 12mm front hub conversion kit in stock and will ship it out today!
-
Hi JoelK,
Are you buying a headset through Peter? Not sure what route to take or if I'll be able to notice any difference in the quality of the bearings.
-
Yes, I ordered the headset through Peter. I forget the exact cost, but it was quite inexpensive. Between the low cost and others good luck with Peter's headsets I figured it was worth it. It can always be easily replaced later if I am not happy with it.
-
I am VERY pleased with Hope as they were great to deal with when I called two days ago about 12mm endcaps, even when my credit card company was being a pain. But even more impressive is that the endcaps I thought would be hard to get arrived at my house today!
-
Carbonazza, I am sorry it has taken me so long to get these, admittedly poor, pictures of the wheel build process posted. For a lot more useful information I must suggest that you check out Roger Musson's wheelbuilding book: http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php (http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php)
(http://s28.postimg.org/tewdosqn1/20151104_135613.jpg)
Gathering the parts.
(http://s3.postimg.org/j3c0bmrnn/20151104_135626.jpg)
I use an old can top to oil the nipples, and I coat the threads of the spokes with Wheelsmith spoke prep (kind of a combination of Locktite and Teflon pipe tape, to help keep the nipples from loosening but easy to true if needed).
(http://s14.postimg.org/qquufxva9/20151104_140120.jpg)
First set of spokes installed.
(http://s18.postimg.org/6hnj3ammx/20151104_140559.jpg)
Second set on the other side.
(http://s27.postimg.org/p6xndyejn/20151104_141659.jpg)
First set of crossing spokes (2 cross in this case).
(http://s14.postimg.org/xl555mnxd/20151104_142150.jpg)
Second set of crossing spokes.
At this point the wheel goes on the truing stand for tensioning and truing. Unfortunately I got distracted by what I was doing and forgot to take any pictures.
I know this is very cursory coverage of the process, so if you have any questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer.
-
Thank you for the pictures, they give me the impression it is doable.
I had the best intentions to take many detailed pictures when building my bike.
But after a while, I felt too much into it, forgot, and the bike was mounted ::)
-
First set of crossing spokes (2 cross in this case)
Why only 2 cross for a 32 spoke wheel? It'll work, but there's no reason I can think of to not go with 3x in that setup.
-
I have played with 2x and 3x 32 hole wheels and I like the 2x a little better.
A while back I was doing some reading and saw that in theory 2x is slightly stiffer laterally, but less so torsionally. I had a frame where a 2.35 tire on a 3x 30mm id rim would rub occasionaly so, as I was going to build another set of wheels anyway, I decided to try the same setup laxed 2x and see what happened. Same exact tire and bike, same brand and model hubs, spokes, and rims and no more rub.
Consequently I went 2x on this wheelset as I want to minimize the chance of tire rub when I try 28mm tires.
-
any updates on the bike? I would love to see some pictures 8)
-
The frame was shipped last week, should be here soon!
-
Received the frame, fork, seatpost, bars, and bottle cages! Everything came packed very well, and was in good condition.
(http://s18.postimg.org/ccfioi3o9/Frame.jpg)
I am very happy with the quality of everything!
Weights:
Frame 971 with guide tubing still in place
Fork 383 with guide tubing still in place (yes, the front brake line goes through the fork leg)
Seatpost 213
Bars (B6 style) 194
Bottle cages 22 and 23
The only problem is that Peter does not have the 12mm front axles yet.
I will start building what I can, but the axle may hold me up.
I test fit my wheels with 25mm Schwalbe Pro One tires, which on the 17.5mm inside width rims measure 28mm wide, and they have plenty of room in the seatstays, chainstays, and fork. The closest they come is at the seat tube with about 2-3mm clearance. 28mm tires on these rims would fit widthwise, but may rub the seat tube if they are much taller that the 25s.
-
That's a damn clean looking frame. Looking forward to seeing the build!
-
Very nice looking build! Happy to see that you built the wheels yourself too.
Keep us posted.
-
Looking good! Can't wait to see it built.
-
The bike is at about the 80% point. I am loving this frame so far. The rear brake and derailleur have full plastic internal tubing, large enough for the full rear hydraulic brake line, but only the rear shift cable, no housing. The frame comes with removable guide tubing for the front derailleur and the front brake, which goes very cleanly through the left fork leg.
I have been emailing with Peter about the front axle issue, and he is going above and beyond to get me the correct front axle. In the meantime I have given a Shimano 142x12 rear axle to a machinist friend of mine to make a temporary front axle.
I hope to go for a test ride later this week, with pictures and thoughts/comments.
-
Hi Joelk,
I also ordered my CS-092-SL frame (size 54) with coresponding axles from Peter.
It looks very promising.
Do you think there is enough clearance für 30mm spike-tires?
For Example this one:
http://45nrth.com/products/tires/xerxes
This is not a must, but it would be very practical for winter.
Thanks!
-
There is pretty good clearance in the front, the rear has pretty good clearance side to side. However, the rear tire gets quite close to the seat tube, that will be the limiting factor.
I measure approximately 35mm width in the front fork and seatstays/chainstays.
Here are some pictures with 25mm Schwalbe Pro Ones mounted on 17.5 internal width rims. On these rims the tires measure 28mm wide. With these tires there is only about 2-2.5mm clearance between the tire and the seat tube.
(http://s17.postimg.org/h60u1vdlb/F_tire_clearance.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/3wbsttzqr/R_tire_clearance.jpg)
Build progress is currently at a standstill while I await my machinist modifying my temporary front axle (cutting down a Shimano rear axle)/wait for Peter to ship the correct front axle.
-
Thank you very much for your pics and your quick reply.
I think the small vertical distance here is too close in my opinion.
A few more millimeters clearance there would make the frame perfect.
I will order the Xerxes tires and at least try it out for myself.
Chances are good. The spikes are mounted on the side of the tire:
http://www.bike24.de/i/p/5/6/117365_02_d.jpg
But your tubeless Pro One's are probably a bit deeper.
The side clearance should be more than enough tough.
-
(http://s4.postimg.org/yo0lkhhst/CS_092_SL.jpg)
I have a couple of rides in with my temporary front axle and so far I am really liking the frame. Still playing around with the fit, going to try a -10 and a -17 stem to drop the bars a little from the -6 stem I have on it now.
-
Thank you very much for your pics and your quick reply.
I think the small vertical distance here is too close in my opinion.
A few more millimeters clearance there would make the frame perfect.
I will order the Xerxes tires and at least try it out for myself.
Chances are good. The spikes are mounted on the side of the tire:
http://www.bike24.de/i/p/5/6/117365_02_d.jpg
But your tubeless Pro One's are probably a bit deeper.
The side clearance should be more than enough tough.
Martink, check with Bclem here http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,809.0.html (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,809.0.html) as he also got a 54 like you, and from his pictures there may be more room between the tire and the seat tube on the 54 than my 58.
-
Awesome build Joelk. Did the frame come with any grommets for di2? Can you please take close ups of the holes for the internal cabling?
Thanks!
-
Awesome build Joelk. Did the frame come with any grommets for di2? Can you please take close ups of the holes for the internal cabling?
Thanks!
Thank you.
The frame came with the fittings for a cable setup installed. They are oval aluminum inserts held in pace by a small countersunk allen head screw. It also came with the pictured fittings that I assume are for a DI2 setup.
(http://s16.postimg.org/77hiyktlh/20151221_010225.jpg)
There is a hole low on the seat post for the DI2 wiring for the front derailleur.
(http://s3.postimg.org/nm9cqzneb/20151221_010423.jpg)
The frame also came with the rubber plug you see for those of us running cables.
If you need any more pictures/info just ask. You may also want to check out Bclem's thread as he is running DI2 on the same frame http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,809.0.html (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,809.0.html)
Edited to add:
Here is a close up picture of a cable port/fitting, where the rear derailleur cable enters just behind the head tube, if that helps you see the difference. The small countersunk screw securing the aluminum insert is hidden behind the cable.
(http://s14.postimg.org/a8eym8441/20151221_012203s.jpg)
-
Martink, check with Bclem here http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,809.0.html (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,809.0.html) as he also got a 54 like you, and from his pictures there may be more room between the tire and the seat tube on the 54 than my 58.
Thank you! That's very interesting... I will happily report how the spike tires will fit, when everything has arrived. Thanks for your picture!
-
Awesome, thanks for the pictures!
-
Nice set-up! Well done sir.
The idea of building a road bike grows in me. I have a question though: Legacy wheels.
1.) Can a Hope Pro 2 Evo & Stan's ZTR Crest wheels could fit 092?
2.) Can a DT Swiss Spline X1700 MTB wheelset 350 hub?
15x100/12x142mm wheels, per say installing 25mm ~ 28mm road tyres.
Very helpful information appreciated :D
-
The Hope rear hub will bolt right in. The Hope front hub would need new endcaps for the 12x100 front axle. However I don't think the Stans rims are rated for the pressures used on road tires.
I don't know if DT has 12mm endcaps for the 350 hubs.
I am approaching 1000 miles on this bike and am still very happy with it.
-
Bike looks great. What an amazing looking build.
-
@JoelK, couldn't find the size of the frame your have. Can you please tell me ?
-
@JoelK, couldn't find the size of the frame your have. Can you please tell me ?
Sorry I missed this. My frame is a 58cm.
Still really happy with it. No problems or issues.