Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => Fat Bikes => Topic started by: rvc on October 12, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
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Hey guys.
So, after much humming and hawing, I caved and placed an order with XM Carbon Speed for a N019 fatbike and the 80mm carbon rims.
I spent way-too-many hours on BikesDirect and Excel looking at the Boris and Lurch FS models, working the numbers every way possible, only to conclude that while a BD bike would get me on a fat bike faster, it probably wouldn't make me as happy long term. I think that there's just something about building a bike up yourself from scratch, the way you want. I'm more of a do-it-yourselfer anyway. The other big factor was that I was able to source a trick suspension fork at relatively low cost ($250), doing away with BikeDirect's price monopoly advantage with the Bluto. Big thanks goes there to RSD bikes in Canada for the deal on the fork (they're now sold-out I think, sorry).
I sourced these chiner goodies from Peter at XM Carbon Sports, and I have to say the guy has been pretty awesome so far. They're 12h ahead of my time zone, and he was repeatedly answering emails during the Chinese Holidays about 5 minutes after I sent a question. You can't beat that. I had originally gone to Bert at XMIplay, but he was on travel/vacation and when he eventually, responded my order was already placed.
So, without further ado, here's the build sheet with the costs and some really rough weight estimates:
(http://combier.net/images/Fatbike-Project.jpg)
Some of the philosophy on the build:
Frame - The N019 had everything I wanted, fully replaceable axle mounts, a huge straight downtube (I'm not much a fan of the dragon's-neck shape of most downtubes these days), internal cable routing, etc. The frame looks like a tank too, part of the whole fatbike theme I suppose. At $445, I think it is worth it to just buy the frame directly and have in the build everything fit the first time, versus buying a Motobecane Lurch FS, then trying to swap the frame with an IP-N0XX ( where you'd have to play with hub spacers, axles, cabling, selling a largely worthless Motobecane frame later, etc). YMMV
Fork - Not interested in a carbon or rigid fork, so the only options really were Bluto, Bluto, Bluto or... if you really dig, the "fork of many names". This is an upside down, inverted fork ( USD), similar to those found on sport motorcycles. The fork is made in China by Mekkem and has been rebranded by Carver/Bikeman and eleven9. By everything I could read on it, it seemed like a great, well adjustable fork. People seem a little worried about it flexing about... but after having held it in my hands, I just can't imagine it is a noodle. The uppers and stanchions are simply gigantic, and the axle mounts are completely reassuring. I'll let you know if it actually rides any differently. I managed to dig one up on Pinkbike for a steal, they are available from Bikeman.com and on eBay though.
Wheels & Tires - Fatbikes are all about the tire, so I decided that there was no way I was gonna do this with entry-level tires. It's like spending a bunch of money on a FS frame, and then putting a terrible rear shock on it. Why dampen the fun (pun intended)? This meant 45NRTH tires, and fortunately the 4" Husker Du's clear the "narrow" USD fork. Erik's had the best deal by far on these at $204 shipped for a pair.
On the wheels, I got to test ride a Specialized Fatboy with big, heavy, inner-tube boasting wheels. I loved the traction and cornering, but it just soaked up so much energy to get the thing going. Yes, I know that this part of the DNA of a fatbike... but I also was ever only interested in going carbon wheels because I truly believe you can feel a change of 250g in rotating mass. It's worth noting that the wheels on this build cost more than anything else.
Other points--oh yes the NASA thing. I ordered mine in gloss white, and instead of adding or painting in graphics, I'm just going to put a couple NASA vinyl decals on it and theme it loosely around a Space Shuttle or Moon Rover. The space theme should go nicely with the Saturn V style fatness of the frame and carbon goodies sprinkled on the bike. We'll see if it turns out--if not, off they come.
The rest of the build is comprised of the best performance/value goodies I could afford (read: XT), and the only golden egg being the Raceface Turbine cranks which eBay helped out with. It isn't easy to find fat bike cranks+BB that fit a 197mm rear axle, are of any reasonable name brand, AND aren't $300.
Now, the wait! I'll keep you posted.
PS Big thanks to CMH on this forum--his info has been super helpful to me in the prep for this project.
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Oh and here are some pics from Peter of the frame!
(http://combier.net/images/fatbike1.jpg)
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(http://combier.net/images/fatbike2.jpg)
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And here's a photo of the Mekkem Inverted 80-110mm Air fork, aka Carver Trans-fat, next to the already massive Manitou Sherman 150mm travel fork from my old rig.
(http://combier.net/images/usdfork.jpg)
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Awesome! Thanks for sharing.. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the final result.
Really digging the NASA theme too. Have you considered having Peter paint the carbon rims? Maybe NASA blue. Just a thought.
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Great build! I've gotta say based on my experience, you're doing it the right way. Can't wait to see how this comes together for you! Especially good call on going with the HuskerDu tires, that's the one tire I have heard absolutely nothing but raves about. Considered getting a set for my bike except $$$. You've invested wisely there.
Really glad my early info provided some help! I'm sure gonna be watching this thread!
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Awesome! Thanks for sharing.. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the final result.
Really digging the NASA theme too. Have you considered having Peter paint the carbon rims? Maybe NASA blue. Just a thought.
Thanks man. I got the idea for the NASA bike when I was in Houston at the Rocket Park. They have a full Saturn V laying down indoors and the scale of it is simply astounding.
I thought about doing blue rims actually, but after seeing a few fatbikes with painted rims it looked a little Walmarty to me. I dunno. Here's a pic that Peter sent me as an example of a painted rim and a custom painted N010. (not mine)
(http://combier.net/images/chiner-fatbike.jpg)
I ended up going with black spokes, silver nipples and Gloss 3K weave finish for that extra carbon jewelry effect. I'm pretty excited about it, even though it means waiting another 3 weeks to have them made.
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Great build! I've gotta say based on my experience, you're doing it the right way. Can't wait to see how this comes together for you! Especially good call on going with the HuskerDu tires, that's the one tire I have heard absolutely nothing but raves about. Considered getting a set for my bike except $$$. You've invested wisely there.
Really glad my early info provided some help! I'm sure gonna be watching this thread!
Thanks cmh! I was really close to buying the Panaracer Fat B Nimble as they are very similar to the HuDu's but about 1/2 the price. eBay has the Panaracers at about $116/pr, and they weigh an amazing 1180grams or so. Only catch is that when mounted they are only really about 3.5" wide (ha... "only") instead of 4" and they self-steer a lot at lower pressures (sub 8psi). I mulled for a while about it... but there's a moment when I realized that I'm already spending 2k on a bike, why risk the handling and grip for $100. I think it's better money spent than health insurance too. :)
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Thanks cmh! I was really close to buying the Panaracer Fat B Nimble as they are very similar to the HuDu's but about 1/2 the price. eBay has the Panaracers at about $116/pr, and they weigh an amazing 1180grams or so. Only catch is that when mounted they are only really about 3.5" wide (ha... "only") instead of 4" and they self-steer a lot at lower pressures (sub 8psi). I mulled for a while about it... but there's a moment when I realized that I'm already spending 2k on a bike, why risk the handling and grip for $100. I think it's better money spent than health insurance too. :)
Funny, having seen HuDu's mounted on 65mm rims, I was amused how skinny they looked. Agreed with the proper allocation of your tire budget, too. Was considering getting a pair but thinking I'm going to hold off and get some 5" rubber to see if it helps through the winter. I've already got fast tires on the other two bikes, so no need trying to make the fat bike speedy. :)
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Yeah, I guess I can see what you mean with the "Walmarty" effect. When I suggested that, I wasn't really taking into consideration that they were fat bike rims. That's a whole lot of color, and would dominate the overall appearance of the bike. I think your choice to go with the 3k weave was a good one. That should look really nice and definitely be worth the 3 weeks.
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... with the "Walmarty" effect....
Not to be confused with Walmarty McFly, the time-travelling bargain hunter. ^_^
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... with the "Walmarty" effect....
Not to be confused with Walmarty McFly, the time-travelling bargain hunter. ^_^
:D
My frame has arrived to the NYC sorting center after a 7 day journey from Xiamen! Fingers crossed it doesn't get detained for some reason.
I had to change my tactics a bit on sourcing the 45NRTH tires. Every single online retailer, including the one I ordered from (Erik's) is actually backordered on the Husker Du's. Disappointing news. I was about to order the Fat B Nimble when Google found a pair at my local REI, at the same price as listed online. I was stunned! An hour later, I had them on my shelf. 1255 and 1270 grams each, good to go!
My pile shrine of future fb parts is growing nicely...
(http://combier.net/images/fatbikeparts.jpg)
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My frame has arrived to the NYC sorting center after a 7 day journey from Xiamen! Fingers crossed it doesn't get detained for some reason.
I had to change my tactics a bit on sourcing the 45NRTH tires. Every single online retailer, including the one I ordered from (Erik's) is actually backordered on the Husker Du's. Disappointing news. I was about to order the Fat B Nimble when Google found a pair at my local REI, at the same price as listed online. I was stunned! An hour later, I had them on my shelf. 1255 and 1270 grams each, good to go!
My pile shrine of future fb parts is growing nicely...
Great news! I was riding with my cousin this past weekend, and he was on his fat bike with Husker Dus. Now, mind you, he's a Cat 1/Pro rider, so that might have had something to do with it, but he did JUST FINE with those tires. :) His were pretty shredded, I'd call them shot, but he certainly didn't seem to think so.
Looking forward to your build, although maybe not quite as much as you.
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My pile shrine of future fb parts is growing nicely...
All hail the pile! ;D
I think the Nasa theme is a frkn sweet theme for one of these bikes. Ahh.. the blue wheels.. I don't know. I can kinda understand what you guys mean with Walmart-esque (I refuse to say the word! ;D) look but on the other hand, I think it might've looked really cool. Especially with the Nasa theme. That said, I guess you don't want to be taking risks when you're dropping big bucks, and the carbon weave is guaranteed to look bad ass.
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I think the Nasa theme is a frkn sweet theme for one of these bikes. Ahh.. the blue wheels.. I don't know. I can kinda understand what you guys mean with Walmart-esque (I refuse to say the word! ;D) look but on the other hand, I think it might've looked really cool. Especially with the Nasa theme. That said, I guess you don't want to be taking risks when you're dropping big bucks, and the carbon weave is guaranteed to look bad ass.
I'm pretty sure that NASA has used some carbon fiber every now and then! :D
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All hail the pile! ;D
I think the Nasa theme is a frkn sweet theme for one of these bikes. Ahh.. the blue wheels.. I don't know. I can kinda understand what you guys mean with Walmart-esque (I refuse to say the word! ;D) look but on the other hand, I think it might've looked really cool. Especially with the Nasa theme. That said, I guess you don't want to be taking risks when you're dropping big bucks, and the carbon weave is guaranteed to look bad ass.
Haha, indeed! A place of worship.
I do think the blue painted wheels would have a strong impression, for sure. Instead of "Walmarty" perhaps a better word is "Youthful," which is seems to be what the whole fun of these bikes is--plain old preteen bike fun.
Just for a little context, I went to school for aerospace engineering... so there's some method to the NASA madness 8)
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And...........(drumroll.....)....... look what arrived yesterday!
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-01.jpg).
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So, I received the frame and it is, in a word, GORGEOUS! Bare frame, with paint weighs 1340 grams. 8) The workmanship looks great, including the hardware and the gloss white paint job. Very happy==Thank you Peter//Carbonspeed!
The only bummer is that my suspension fork crown does actually interfere with the downtube. I knew this would happen with a Bluto (at least for 15 & 17" frames), and I was hoping that my 19" frame and narrower Mekkem USD fork would evade this issue. Well, it doesn't. In fact, the fork needs 8mm between the crown race and the frame. To try to solve this, I've purchased an 8mm carbon headtube spacer that is 1.5" in ID ($2.59 on eBay). The plan is to cut one side and let it stretch to the 1.59" that it needs for the pressfit section of the steerer tube. I might also have to remove the nice anodized cap for covering the Schrader valve and lockout/damping knobs.
On another note, I tested the NASA decals I've received (without installing fully) to check placement and overall appeal. I think it is going to be great!
I couldn't wait and installed the BB/crank to check clearance. Good to go.
On to the pics:
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-02.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-03.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-04.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-05.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-06.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-07.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-08.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-09.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-10.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-11.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-12.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-13.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-14.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-15.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-16.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-17.jpg)
(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-18.jpg)
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Looks great already!
Bummer about the fork / downtube problem. So you did anticipate this issue? Is it a common one specific to fatbikes, this particular fork, or this particular frame?
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So, I received the frame and it is, in a word, GORGEOUS! Bare frame, with paint weighs 1340 grams. 8) The workmanship looks great, including the hardware and the gloss white paint job. Very happy==Thank you Peter//Carbonspeed!
The only bummer is that my suspension fork crown does actually interfere with the downtube. I knew this would happen with a Bluto (at least for 15 & 17" frames), and I was hoping that my 19" frame and narrower Mekkem USD fork would evade this issue. Well, it doesn't. In fact, the fork needs 8mm between the crown race and the frame. To try to solve this, I've purchased an 8mm carbon headtube spacer that is 1.5" in ID ($2.59 on eBay). The plan is to cut one side and let it stretch to the 1.59" that it needs for the pressfit section of the steerer tube. I might also have to remove the nice anodized cap for covering the Schrader valve and lockout/damping knobs.
I'm not fully following your planned fix - are you going to put a cut headtube spacer under the crown race? That doesn't sound like a good idea.
On another note, I tested the NASA decals I've received (without installing fully) to check placement and overall appeal. I think it is going to be great!
The NASA stickers are positively brilliant, it's looking awesome!
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I'm not fully following your planned fix - are you going to put a cut headtube spacer under the crown race? That doesn't sound like a good idea.
Correct. Honestly, I'm not convinced about it either, but it is cheap/quick option to see if I can make this fork compatible with the frame.
I have also ordered a 1.5"ID, 2" OD aluminum tube from Mcmaster.com that I will machine to be an 8mm long spacer with a 1.59" ID as the long term solution.
Oolak -- Yes this is a known problem for most chinese carbon fatbike frames (SN01, FM190, N010, N018, N019) as they were designed to go with rigid carbon forks. The N019 being the most recent, I was hoping to evade this problem with a 19" version and a fork with a narrower crown than the Bluto. No dice though. As a last resort, Peter quoted me $155 for a carbon fork w/axle, but I have chronic wrist pain that makes suss forks a must.
The NASA stickers are positively brilliant, it's looking awesome!
Agreed! It was actually tough to choose/find the right sticker sizes... but I'm happy. For reference, the meatball NASA logo is 3" in diameter, and the worm logo is 3" long.
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I have also ordered a 1.5"ID, 2" OD aluminum tube from Mcmaster.com that I will machine to be an 8mm long spacer with a 1.59" ID as the long term solution.
If you've got the ability to machine a part, maybe make a replacement crown race that has the 8mm thickness built in? My concern is the crown race is press fit on the top of the crown (bottom of the steerer tube) and it steps down in diameter just above that, so you'll have a crown race with play if it's being held above the top of the crown.
Barring that, maybe install the crown race, then have the spacer on top of that and interfacing with the bearing? At least the crown race would be press fit to the top of the crown at that point. You'd have to machine the top of the spacer with the right angle/diameter for the bearing, though. If you can machine a tube to 1.59" accurately, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Also, I'm unsure where the Ferrari fits on the fat bike. ^_^
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If you've got the ability to machine a part, maybe make a replacement crown race that has the 8mm thickness built in? My concern is the crown race is press fit on the top of the crown (bottom of the steerer tube) and it steps down in diameter just above that, so you'll have a crown race with play if it's being held above the top of the crown.
Barring that, maybe install the crown race, then have the spacer on top of that and interfacing with the bearing? At least the crown race would be press fit to the top of the crown at that point. You'd have to machine the top of the spacer with the right angle/diameter for the bearing, though. If you can machine a tube to 1.59" accurately, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Also, I'm unsure where the Ferrari fits on the fat bike. ^_^
I thought about that--just machining my own race. There are a couple issues though I'd imagine:
- The race is steel, I'd like to stick to AL as steel is harder to cut and weighs 2X.
- The race indeed has a very specific angled cross section to match the sealed bearing that might be tough to match. My lathe skills aren't terribly great--even hitting 1.59" accurately will be tough for me.
- I want to be able to change the race if I need to.
From looking at the Mekkem steerer tube, there is just enough shoulder in the 1.59" section to allow the race to still be "press fit" on top of an 8mm spacer. If not, my Plan B is to make a 5mm spacer and buy the commercial solution for Salsa bikes / CaneCreek headsets available a Bikeman.com for $20. It's a replacement crown race that is +3mm thicker to render a Salsa fatbike compatible with the Bluto, and I believe that that race is compatible with the headset I got with the frame.
For reference to others, here is the short aluminum tube stock I ordered from Mcmaster ($3):
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3680/=zhv6bj
And here is the +3mm headset race for the Salsa fatbikes:
http://www.bikeman.com/HD8880.html
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I thought about that--just machining my own race. There are a couple issues though I'd imagine:
- The race is steel, I'd like to stick to AL as steel is harder to cut and weighs 2X.
I wouldn't worry about that, it's not a friction material as much as it's just an interface between the fork and the bearing - I bet you could make it out of delrin or another hard plastic with no issues. I've had crown races that were actually notched, so they came off by hand. Surprising, but they worked, as the bearing held them in the right orientation.
- The race indeed has a very specific angled cross section to match the sealed bearing that might be tough to match. My lathe skills aren't terribly great--even hitting 1.59" accurately will be tough for me.
That's the bigger problem. If it's a manual lathe (I know very very little about machining) hitting a precise angle might be a challenge.
- I want to be able to change the race if I need to.
Considering you're dealing with an OD of 2" and a wall thickness of 1/8", that could be a problem if you machined it to be an interference fit.
From looking at the Mekkem steerer tube, there is just enough shoulder in the 1.59" section to allow the race to still be "press fit" on top of an 8mm spacer. If not, my Plan B is to make a 5mm spacer and buy the commercial solution for Salsa bikes / CaneCreek headsets available a Bikeman.com for $20. It's a replacement crown race that is +3mm thicker to render a Salsa fatbike compatible with the Bluto, and I believe that that race is compatible with the headset I got with the frame.
I think that Salsa 3mm + 5mm spacer is maybe your best bet, the least crappy solution. One other thing is a guy I've worked with on ebay who machines parts, I sent him a message asking if he'd be interested in making an 8mm crown race. I've also discovered that since they're not techincally bearing races anymore, the part in question is also called a headset "base plate".
I'll let you know if i hear anything from the ebay guy.
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I got a reply:
"I would say it is possible to do this. I would like to have the crown race that goes with the specific headset you are going to use so I can be sure of the dimensions. I would be able to do it for $25.
Thank you.
Chris
MTB Tools"
Here's his page on ebay if you want to get in touch with him: http://www.ebay.com/usr/mtbtools
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Super cool! What a great resource, especially at $25. Thanks cmh! There has got to be a market for this adapter, beyond even fat bikes as it also slackens the steering angle. When I first started looking I expected to find spacers already available.
The headset baseplate that came with my frame from Peter is indeed notched, and is what led me to believe that I might be able to get away with a similarly notched carbon headset spacer. I'll post pics and measures shortly.
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From the sounds of it, MTBTools Chris might want you to ship that base plate to him so he can get the dimensions right. He made me an axle to convert a 15mm thru into a 9mm quick release that worked like a champ, and I remember his turnaround being pretty quick.
I actually like notched base plates (aka crown races) as it makes installation and removal far easier - but my concern was with elevating the crown race off of the area where it's supposed to be press fit, not so much the notched-ness.
Did a little bit of research last night, I expected exactly the same as you with expecting to find a bunch of things available, but it seems like they were available when 29ers first caught on and frames hadn't been designed to account for that, just like your fatty frame, with Chris King and On-One and others making "plus 5" base plates, but then the demand seems to have stopped, aside from Salsa's own fix for the Bluto. Most of what I found was also 1 1/8" size, so before tapered steerers caught on. Hopefully with the advent of the Bluto and other suspension forks, the Chiners will adjust to clear suspension forks.
From what I've seen, it'll be a small decrease to head angle - I saw roughly .5 degree for 10mm elevation, so your handling should be pretty much unaffected.
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Looks like Chris might be able to help me out!
Here's a selection of pics that I took to help dimension the new spacer:
The lower 52mm bearing cup of the frame:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-cg76NMb/0/XL/20151024_182947-XL.jpg)
With the bearing installed:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-PDGmFLK/0/XL/20151024_182958-XL.jpg)
With the original crown race/baseplate sitting on the bearing:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-47nd9mj/0/XL/20151024_183035-XL.jpg)
You can see here that the headset/frame is designed to have a semi flush (+1mm) fitment with the fork.
A point I want to add here: with the crown race/baseplate installed on a 1.5 steerer (at the 1.59" section), this particular race opens up to an OD of 52.2mm, which is larger than the 52mm opening in the bottom of the frame. This means, with the fork test fit, it rubs! Its a little bit of a bummer--I thought at first that I just hadn't torqued down the headset, but on closer inspection/measurement it was clear the race was rubbing the frame.
Here's the 1.5" carbon headset spacer installed as a test:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-V3RH5GB/0/XL/20151024_183122-XL.jpg)
This test confirmed for me that adding 8mm (underneath the baseplate) as a shim is just barely enough to clear the fork knobs. Since I'm having a custom part made, I'm actually going to go +11mm instead of +8mm to give everything a touch more room.
On my steerer, the 1.59" OD pressfit section is just tall enough to grab after an 8mm shim:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-28ZGvxk/0/XL/20151024_183424-XL.jpg)
Another 20 min in Solidworks, and here is the drawing for the baseplate adapter I hope to have made with MTB Tools 8):
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-Nwdpx2K/0/XL/Fatbike%20baseplate%20adapter-XL.jpg)
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Nice, with the drawing, he might not even need the original. One thing you might want to do is take a page from the Chris King +5 and have him machine away some of the underside to lighten it up a little. Every gram counts when your NASA moon buggy gets launched!
(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/mapsports-syuppin/cabinet/new03/2999900081067_1.jpg)
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Damn, you guys are doing some serious building in this thread! Great work. Bike is looking sick.
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Damn, you guys are doing some serious building in this thread! Great work. Bike is looking sick.
Thanks Izzy! Reallly looking forward to riding this thing.
Nice, with the drawing, he might not even need the original. One thing you might want to do is take a page from the Chris King +5 and have him machine away some of the underside to lighten it up a little. Every gram counts when your NASA moon buggy gets launched!
Hehe. Or perhaps just ride the thing with the carbon headset spacer then? 8)
On the weight savings side... I may be replacing my 140g carbon chiner handlebar with something a little more substantial. I'm thinking a ti handlebar after my little accident last week:
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,763
It will add another $100 and 70g to the front of the bike (already heavy with the fork).
Also considering adding $9 LandRover Range Rover lettering to the top side of the down tube, only just using the letters for R O V E R. The boxy cross section of the down tube should give a reasonably flat surface to mount the raised emblems. Although I have a feeling that with extended use the letters might eventually fall off, it would probably look pretty cool!
Here's what I'm thinking:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31hke1sgsjL.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Dian-Scratch-resistant-Sticker-Vehicle-logo-Available/dp/B00KQGY6AI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_263_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=413MmhPgbKL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1ZKJCKTG05R5X0SRPHXM
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a) bars - yeah, I could see that.
b) ROVER. Yes. Do this thing. I LOL'd when I saw that.
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b) ROVER. Yes. Do this thing. I LOL'd when I saw that.
This is essentially your idea, sir! :)
I do like it, and the cost of the replica emblems is about the same as any sort of custom vinyl decals. I was originally thinking "Endeavour" or "Saturn" after the NASA vehicles, but the Rover is a bit more "down to earth" (pun intended).
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b) ROVER. Yes. Do this thing. I LOL'd when I saw that.
This is essentially your idea, sir! :)
I do like it, and the cost of the replica emblems is about the same as any sort of custom vinyl decals. I was originally thinking "Endeavour" or "Saturn" after the NASA vehicles, but the Rover is a bit more "down to earth" (pun intended).
I take full credit, then. :D
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Got an update from Chris yesterday... Have a look at these 8)
This guy is just awesome!
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-Ww9b2Pf/0/XL/crown-002-XL.jpg)
Also, my wheels shipped today! Should be here in about 8 days.
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3K Wheels
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-KHXDrFd/0/XL/1027_1-XL.jpg)
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Got an update from Chris yesterday... Have a look at these 8)
This guy is just awesome!
Jeez, what took him so long? ;)
Coming along well! You still have a rebuild on that front wheel looming, yes?
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How's the build going? Your stuff showed up and then *poof* no more updates!
Nosy minds wanna know!
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How's the build going? Your stuff showed up and then *poof* no more updates!
Nosy minds wanna know!
Haha-- I see. Well, I've been on travel abroad for work and actually haven't set my eyes on the wheels yet (or the MTBtools spacer, for that matter). They're tortuously waiting for me at the Post Office.
I should have them in a week or so. Rest assured, my nosy friends... you will be updated! 8)
Side note: The UK has some incredible bike magazines + unique brands of stuff that you don't see here. One specific difference I noticed is that in the States, it seems like 9/10 of the magazine photos are insane jumps or manuals. You almost never see two wheels on the ground, much less on a flat trail. Too boring for American eyes? No ad retention?
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How's the build going? Your stuff showed up and then *poof* no more updates!
Nosy minds wanna know!
Haha-- I see. Well, I've been on travel abroad for work and actually haven't set my eyes on the wheels yet (or the MTBtools spacer, for that matter). They're tortuously waiting for me at the Post Office.
I should have them in a week or so. Rest assured, my nosy friends... you will be updated! 8)
Side note: The UK has some incredible bike magazines + unique brands of stuff that you don't see here. One specific difference I noticed is that in the States, it seems like 9/10 of the magazine photos are insane jumps or manuals. You almost never see two wheels on the ground, much less on a flat trail. Too boring for American eyes? No ad retention?
Well we eagerly await your updates! I wanna see the moon buggy!
And yes - I noticed the exact same thing when I was in the UK, all the magazines make the US versions seem so very disappointing. I got tired of the US magazines showing all the riding I never do. Dirt Rag is still pretty good, but I enjoyed the UK mags.
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So--At long last I am back and picked up the carbon wheel/rim! Fortunately, the post office was able to hold it for two weeks for me no problem.
First impressions, the rims are gorgeous. Looks exactly as shown in the previous pic, with the exception of silver nipples. I also observed the rear wheel (assembled) seems to be built quite well. The tensions are fairly consistent and the rim is dead true/round. I will be lacing and tensioning the front rim this weekend.
Weights:
Front rim (bare) 752g. This is a little more than I expected but still quite light.
Rear wheel, assembled (no axle) with Sapim D-LIGHT spokes, Novatec 202 hub and Shimano freewheel: 1370g
Front wheel, unassembled but with the hub, same as above spokes and nippes: 1170g
This gives a wheelset weight a little higher than advertised (2440g versus 2540g actual). Perhaps this is due to the 3K versus UD selection or mfg variance? An astute reader might note that I'm using a different front hub than shown on xmcarbonspeed.com, although mine is still the same model Novatec and is narrower (135mm vs 150mm). I also ended up with lighter spokes than "stock", the D-LIGHTs are supposedly ~50g/wheel lighter per wheel.
Regardless, I am now able to assemble the bike and will update you guys when I can!
Cheers
R
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Also, I received the spacer ring from MTB tools and will need to tweak the ID slightly to get to fit. The craftsmanship and speed delivered by Chris/MTBtools was simply fantastic though!
I'm really looking forward to get it installed and ridden! Lately work and other activities have been crazy though and deleted my freetime to work on the fb project...
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Also, I received the spacer ring from MTB tools and will need to tweak the ID slightly to get to fit. The craftsmanship and speed delivered by Chris/MTBtools was simply fantastic though!
I'm really looking forward to get it installed and ridden! Lately work and other activities have been crazy though and deleted my freetime to work on the fb project...
Awesome, coming along well! Glad to hear MTBtools worked out well!
+100g off claimed weight isn't terribly surprising. I got my 80mm fatbike rims from Peter when he was still at XMIPlay and they were listed as 650+/-50g, and both of them were almost exactly +50g. :D
cmh
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I laced and tensioned up the wheel 8), no problems aside from dropping two nipples into an almost finished wheel :-[. I had to make heavy use of the "Force" to lure those tiny nipples out of the nipple holes. The shape of the rim section is definitely not suited for stupid mistakes.
I ended up with 95kgf on the non-disc side and 125kgf on the disc side once dished correctly. It felt like I was making a motorcycle wheel!
The rear wheel, however came laced super tight (23-26 on my Park TM-1, which is off the charts on their scale for 1.6mm spokes, I'm guessing in the neighborhood of 200-220kgf!). I messaged Peter to see if that tension is recommended or safe on the CF rims... not to mention aluminum nipples. Any thoughts?
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I forget where I saw it, but I remember seeing ridiculously high tension limits for a chiner carbon rim. Dunno - I aimed for 120kgf on my 80mm build and it seems just fine. I think I confirmed that with Peter at the time, but my memory is $#!+. ;D
I would expect for sure that if the spokes didn't extend into the nipple head, that level of tension would have you breaking nipples all the time - I find that's the case with even normal tensions. I always run spokes a little longer when using aluminum nipples because of that. Also looked into nipples with extended internal threading, DT Swiss makes a cool one now that has a male torx head and gives about 1-2mm extra threading through the nipple head. Haven't built with it yet, though. Have use Sapim's hex head nipples which don't have the normal screwdriver slot and such give about an extra 1mm of threading in what seems to be a beefier nipple head.
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IT'S ALIVE!!! :D
Build notes and ride review to follow... pics first!
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-SZwpP7x/0/XL/20151126135949_IMG_7565-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-TbWSjTh/0/XL/20151126140001_IMG_7567-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-b3Q7vsv/0/XL/20151126140324_IMG_7592-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-RRDzKpf/0/XL/20151126140311_IMG_7591-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-NrJcXVS/0/XL/20151126140248_IMG_7587-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-BhTCC5W/0/XL/20151126140210_IMG_7582-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-RvN9K9S/0/XL/20151126140137_IMG_7579-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-N66GjkL/0/XL/20151126140108_IMG_7576-XL.jpg)
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-Jftt2rB/0/XL/20151126140031_IMG_7571-XL.jpg)
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Sweet! Congrats man, I'm envious.
That's awesome you found such a solid solution to the fork clearance issue. Something like that probably would've scared me from doing the build, but it was no big deal, really. Looking forward to hearing if it's functioning well, and other ride impressions, and also total bike weight.
Thanks for sharing.
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Sweet! Congrats man, I'm envious.
That's awesome you found such a solid solution to the fork clearance issue. Something like that probably would've scared me from doing the build, but it was no big deal, really. Looking forward to hearing if it's functioning well, and other ride impressions, and also total bike weight.
Thanks for sharing.
Cheers Izzy, thanks! ;D
Total bike, ride ready is 29.3lbs. Its a tad heavier than I originally estimated at ~27-28, but we all know that weight forecasts are notoriously underestimated.
I wouldn't say that it was "no big deal" to figure out a solution for the fork clearance issue. I worried about it for several days, and only with the help of CMH and Chris @ MTBtools did it get solved. I'm hoping that Chris will make a commercially available adapter for this to solve others' problems, because the end result worked out great.
A couple notes on the build an assembly:
Internally routed cabling.
I knew this would be a little tough for me as I've never threaded a shift cable internally before. Well, it was. The sewing thread + vacuum cleaner trick just didnt work for me... the outlet holes were too small on the 019 frame to get enough suction. I ended up forcing the cabe into the down tube, then catching it with the bottom bracket off and precariously sliding it out of the correct outlet. The rear brake hose cable (on the left side of the frame) came with an inner liner, so pushing it through to the other side was easy. Why couldn't the shift cable have that too?
Seat tube paint cracking.
Upon tightening the included seatpost clamp, I noticed a hairline crack at the collar. I think it is just in the paint, but still... it's a bummer. It's on monitor status now.
Headset
The MTBtools elevated race worked perfectly. It lifted the exact amount needed to clear the pressure cap of the fork: 11mm. The 45deg bevel that Chris machined centered perfectly on the lower headset sealed bearing (a chinese copy of the FSA 42/52 internal). The upper side of the headset was a disaster. No combination of spacers would get it to turn freely, and I ended up questioning my sanity on the assembly of the upper section. As it turns out--- the chinese FSA headset that I got for $25 was junk, at least for the upper section. The spliced centering collar sat about 2mm too low, causing the top dust cover to compress against the frame: making it turn like shit, and very quickly flake off the paint >:( I ended up finding another spliced collar from my parts bin that sat the dust cover high enough. In hindsight, I'd probably just order a new FSA 42/52 internal headset for $60 or whatever and have it done right from the beginning. Future builders: don't bother with the "included" chiner headset
Tires
I've never seated tubeless fat tires before, so when I decided it was time to mount the tires (5:12pm on the day before Thanksgiving), I realized that to do this correctly you need an inner tube! And with holiday, all of the bike shops were closed. :-[ Here's where REI came in for the win, for the second time actually. They had a fat inner tube, and were open late. Sweet. I was going to really lament not having the new bike rideable on a 4 day weekend with 60deg F outside!
Handlebars
Once she was all put together and I was done just staring at the bike (mesmerized), I did some late night street riding to sort out the issues. Well, the stem+handlebar combo was the first issue I had to handle. After riding the bike 10 feet it was clear that the long stem (100mm) and narrowish handlebar (660mm) were just not gonna work with 4" fat tires. I had a spare chiner carbon handlebar (that hasn't broken off yet) that was marginally wider (680mm) and I salvaged the 70mm stem from my 29er. It's better but still not perfect. I will be ordering a 730mm Ti bar shortly...
And?! How does it ride!?
I've ridden one other fatbike before, and only briefly. A Specialized Fatboy SE. Entry level rigid, and super slow, but enough of a hoot to greenlight this project.
In short, this ride is STUNNING!!!! I just can't believe it! It climbs, descends, accelerates and brakes really well. And it corners like SEX!
I have already gone on two rides on my usual loop. The first ride found myself laughing the whole way; I was goofing around on the thing, experimenting with different tire pressures, cornering positions and lines, and still managed to almost tie my PR set by my hardtail 29er. The second ride today was a little more sorted and focused, and I totally crushed my PR. 1h15m on the N019, versus 1h23m on my 29er. I just couldn't believe it!
Upon some reflection and a beer since the ride today, I've concluded that the time saved comes from the sheer cornering speed and resulting leg energy on reserve. There is so much traction, even when the bike is pitched over that it just becomes less necessary to touch the brakes. It's almost scary. The slightly raked front fork (resulting from 2" of lift, between the race adapter and the suss fork) means that sweeping twisty sections are confidence inspiring, and it doesn't get unsettled when pitched over and going over changing terrain. The tire absorbs a lot of the tiny bumps too, so you have the encouraging impression that the trail is smooth asphalt. So, higher cornering speed, higher exit speed, less gas burned on accelerating out of the corner.
The Fatboy SE that I rode had heaaaaavy wheels, and boy did you feel it. My legs were burning quickly out of tight cornering sections. The N019, however didn't really feel any slower than my 29er on acceleration--a miracle given the sheer size. The 135/197mm axles, 80mm carbon rims, and tubeless Husker Du's are a truly awesome combination. It tracks alarminlgy well overall and really doesnt seem to care how you pitch the bike.
A couple negative points:
- At 0-2mph, the handling is... well, super sluggish and it takes some getting used to. I'm holding out until I get the 730mm bar really. But there was a moment in a technical rocky section where I slowed down to a crawl, bonked and couldnt twist the front wheel out of it (like I usually would). I ended up dropping the bike and scratching the seatstay on a rock. Oh well.
- No Lizard Skin that I've found fits the huge chainstays. I installed an adhesive chain smack guard, but it still clacks the frame pretty hard on rocky descents.
- The rear brake mounting bolts seem to be too far to the axle; my Hope brake only bite into 70-80% the 160mm rotor. I may go 185mm in the back and shim the caliper out later on.
Overall, I'm very pleased!! Yes, it ended up being more expensive and heavier than I planned ($2150, 29.3lbs), but good God is it fast and fun (I'll admit, it's gorgeous to me too!)
-RVC
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Wow, awesome write-up and build, man. Reading that actually got me considering a fat bike build for the first time since I got over my initial "oh I want this cool new thing" phase. I think it helps a lot that you've got some pretty sweet wheels on that thing.
Do you happen to have much experience with full suspension bikes? If so, in your opinion, do think that tire size or suspension is the more effective at smoothing out the trail?
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Total bike, ride ready is 29.3lbs. Its a tad heavier than I originally estimated at ~27-28, but we all know that weight forecasts are notoriously underestimated.
Anything sub 30 for a fat bike is pretty respectable - add in the fact that you've got a suspension fork and you're doing great.
I wouldn't say that it was "no big deal" to figure out a solution for the fork clearance issue. I worried about it for several days, and only with the help of CMH and Chris @ MTBtools did it get solved. I'm hoping that Chris will make a commercially available adapter for this to solve others' problems, because the end result worked out great.
Yeah, really glad how well that worked out. It'd be cool to get the spacer anodized, but a little black paint or even a Sharpie could fix that right up. :D
Seat tube paint cracking.
Upon tightening the included seatpost clamp, I noticed a hairline crack at the collar. I think it is just in the paint, but still... it's a bummer. It's on monitor status now.
Boo -- but should just be aesthetic.
Handlebars
...I will be ordering a 730mm Ti bar shortly...
Wait, not a carbon one? ;D
In short, this ride is STUNNING!!!! I just can't believe it! It climbs, descends, accelerates and brakes really well. And it corners like SEX!
So, I'm not sure, do you like it? ;D
- No Lizard Skin that I've found fits the huge chainstays. I installed an adhesive chain smack guard, but it still clacks the frame pretty hard on rocky descents.
Ditch that rear derailleur for one with a clutch, like the Shadow Plus, and make sure the clutch is on. Matter of fact, a non-clutch rear derailleur and no chain guide is potentially asking for a regularly thrown chain. Narrow-wide rings help, but you can still get chain bounce without the clutch and possibly throw the chain. Also depends heavily on your trails.
Also, please - please - cut that damn excess cable. :D Hopefully it was just impatience and you've already done it, but if you don't have a cable crimp on hand, just use some hot glue, works like a champ.
Overall, I'm very pleased!! Yes, it ended up being more expensive and heavier than I planned ($2150, 29.3lbs), but good God is it fast and fun (I'll admit, it's gorgeous to me too!)
Sounds like it was totally worth it. Congrats! Great build, looks awesome, and sounds like you've got a winner! Glad you enjoy yours more than mine, guess it's time to get better tires and get on mine again.
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Do you happen to have much experience with full suspension bikes? If so, in your opinion, do think that tire size or suspension is the more effective at smoothing out the trail?
Yes, though nothing super recent. I sold my Titus Quasi Moto build (6" travel f/r) to fund this project, and I've had a SC Superlight, RM Element, and Giant NRS before that. No experience on a "modern" 29er FS (ask cmh about his new Specialized!), so take that into consideration.
Regarding smoothing the trail... it really depends on the trail, the FS bike/shock and the tire pressure you run in the fatbike. I ran it as low as 5psi on the first day and it simply deletes bumps under about 2" in size. At that pressure though, the tires make all kinds of noise and the bike feels "bouncy". The FS bikes I've had were pretty decent at smoothing over medium hits--small chatter and big smacks still telegraphed.
What I like about the fatbike experience is how the tires eat a lot of the minor unsettling trail bumps in cornering. When you combine that with the high lateral stiffness (80mm rims + wide through axles)--the sensation of confidence and stability is awesome. And you don't pay for that in the climbs--it still feels like a hardtail going up. There's also something nice about the tire profile and how it leans over--reminds me of my street motorcycling days.
If you're curious--try and do a demo day with your LBS. That's how I demo'ed the Fatboy. Then imagine everything being 8lbs lighter (thank you, China!).
Yeah, really glad how well that worked out. It'd be cool to get the spacer anodized, but a little black paint or even a Sharpie could fix that right up. :D
Oh yes, definitely. :)
Ditch that rear derailleur for one with a clutch, like the Shadow Plus, and make sure the clutch is on. Matter of fact, a non-clutch rear derailleur and no chain guide is potentially asking for a regularly thrown chain. Narrow-wide rings help, but you can still get chain bounce without the clutch and possibly throw the chain. Also depends heavily on your trails.
Also, please - please - cut that damn excess cable. :D Hopefully it was just impatience and you've already done it, but if you don't have a cable crimp on hand, just use some hot glue, works like a champ.
Good call on the RD--I was unaware that clutched mechs were available. I picked up a 42T e*thirteen cog and an XTR 11-36 cassette that havent been installed yet. Looks like another $60 for an XT m786 long cage ::)
And... the cable is already cut+capped, don't worry my friend. I rushing the photoshoot for daylight :)
Something else I figured I'd mention-- I was initially worried about the Q of the crankset & 197mm axle as I have mild knee irritation issues. The wide pedal spacing felt completely fine to me (I'm 6'0) and fortunately have felt zero issues in my knees in the 3 rides on the bike so far. Very very pleased! 8)
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Yes, though nothing super recent. I sold my Titus Quasi Moto build (6" travel f/r) to fund this project, and I've had a SC Superlight, RM Element, and Giant NRS before that. No experience on a "modern" 29er FS (ask cmh about his new Specialized!), so take that into consideration.
Ahhh, the Specialized... I recently got an Epic, and it's ... well, Epic. The harder you push it the better it gets. Amusingly, my description of the Epic would pretty much match rvc's description of his fat bike. :)
Good call on the RD--I was unaware that clutched mechs were available. I picked up a 42T e*thirteen cog and an XTR 11-36 cassette that havent been installed yet. Looks like another $60 for an XT m786 long cage ::)
Will make a big difference on the chain slap as well. I found Gorilla clear tape is pretty awesome for frame protection. Not quite as thick or durable as helicopter tape (which I also have) but far cheaper and easier to find.
And... the cable is already cut+capped, don't worry my friend. I rushing the photoshoot for daylight :)
Something told me that was the case but I just couldn't let it slide. :D
Something else I figured I'd mention-- I was initially worried about the Q of the crankset & 197mm axle as I have mild knee irritation issues. The wide pedal spacing felt completely fine to me (I'm 6'0) and fortunately have felt zero issues in my knees in the 3 rides on the bike so far. Very very pleased! 8)
I wondered about the same with mine, and never even thought about it. After a couple rides I was like "well, I guess it wasn't an issue."
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Looks like Chris might be able to help me out!
Here's a selection of pics that I took to help dimension the new spacer:
The lower 52mm bearing cup of the frame:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-cg76NMb/0/XL/20151024_182947-XL.jpg)
With the bearing installed:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-PDGmFLK/0/XL/20151024_182958-XL.jpg)
With the original crown race/baseplate sitting on the bearing:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-47nd9mj/0/XL/20151024_183035-XL.jpg)
You can see here that the headset/frame is designed to have a semi flush (+1mm) fitment with the fork.
A point I want to add here: with the crown race/baseplate installed on a 1.5 steerer (at the 1.59" section), this particular race opens up to an OD of 52.2mm, which is larger than the 52mm opening in the bottom of the frame. This means, with the fork test fit, it rubs! Its a little bit of a bummer--I thought at first that I just hadn't torqued down the headset, but on closer inspection/measurement it was clear the race was rubbing the frame.
Here's the 1.5" carbon headset spacer installed as a test:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-V3RH5GB/0/XL/20151024_183122-XL.jpg)
This test confirmed for me that adding 8mm (underneath the baseplate) as a shim is just barely enough to clear the fork knobs. Since I'm having a custom part made, I'm actually going to go +11mm instead of +8mm to give everything a touch more room.
On my steerer, the 1.59" OD pressfit section is just tall enough to grab after an 8mm shim:
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-28ZGvxk/0/XL/20151024_183424-XL.jpg)
Another 20 min in Solidworks, and here is the drawing for the baseplate adapter I hope to have made with MTB Tools 8):
(https://combier.smugmug.com/Fatbike-Project/i-Nwdpx2K/0/XL/Fatbike%20baseplate%20adapter-XL.jpg)
Have one question: Since the steering tube is tapered and your spacer plus the crown equals around 12+mm, how is your bearing making good contact with the tube since the ID goes down to around 40mm at the point where it makes contact? I've tried with the Niner's 5mm crown and noticed after tightening the headset, the shock would wobble at the bottom due to not making perfect contact between the tube and bearing?
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(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-16.jpg)
Is there no bottom cover for your bike? how does your cable routing look now? Are you worried about water or damages to the cables??
D34N
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Have one question: Since the steering tube is tapered and your spacer plus the crown equals around 12+mm, how is your bearing making good contact with the tube since the ID goes down to around 40mm at the point where it makes contact? I've tried with the Niner's 5mm crown and noticed after tightening the headset, the shock would wobble at the bottom due to not making perfect contact between the tube and bearing?
Howdy Nash,
The steerer on my particular fork (not sure if this is true for others) has a non-tapered section that measures about 10mm up from the crown. This provides more than enough bite for the spacer to grab and center the steerer into the bearing. After now 15+ rides on the thing, there is no wobble or funny business from the spacer mod--I'm very pleased!
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(http://combier.net/images/nasa-fatbike-16.jpg)
Is there no bottom cover for your bike? how does your cable routing look now? Are you worried about water or damages to the cables??
D34N
There is no cover that I'm aware of. I'm not terribly worried about damage to the cables--I've had several bikes run exposed cable through plastic guides underneath the BB shell. No problems really with it in the past.
As for water... I kind of like that there is a "drain" near the low point of the bike-- the frame is not watertight in other areas of the bike... so reasonable drainage/venting would be good I assume.
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There is no cover that I'm aware of. I'm not terribly worried about damage to the cables--I've had several bikes run exposed cable through plastic guides underneath the BB shell. No problems really with it in the past.
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be worried about that setup, all my road bikes and many non-suspension MTBs I've had were set up like that. What would be nice, however, is having an easy option for a full-run housing, I'm a big fan of that. I run only full-run housing on my bikes, and just last week my wife's rear derailleur stopped shifting well when her rear housing froze up. I'd like to convert her bike to full-run housing, but thanks to internal cable routing, I'd have to start by drilling stuff out.
On the upside, having her unable to shift out of first gear made it easier to keep up with her, so I might just spray down her derailleur before winter rides. ^_^
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i just found this forum, have been browsing on MBTR.
I ordered this week from peter at Carbonspeed:
19 " CS-N019 frame
Carbon Fork
Headset,Stem,Handlebars,Seatpost
100 mm Wheels with SRAM Hub
now have to get components:
planning on XX1 1x11 Deraileur
need to figure out crank ( brand and spindle length)and Bottom Bracket , Chain Ring 28,30,32 ?brand , flipped ?
I am looking for any advice on any and all parts.
Brakes Shimano or Sram ?
Tubeless tires
I have never built a bike but hope to find local help ( Syracuse anyone ??? )
Thanks in advance
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You might want to start your own thread for your build so it doesn't get confused with RVC's.
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need to figure out crank ( brand and spindle length)and Bottom Bracket , Chain Ring 28,30,32 ?brand , flipped ?
I am looking for any advice on any and all parts.
Brakes Shimano or Sram ?
Tubeless tires
I have never built a bike but hope to find local help ( Syracuse anyone ??? )
Re: crank, with a 190mm rear end, you typically want a 120mm BB, but I think that I've heard of folks running 100mm BBs without too much trouble with the chainline. On my fatty, it's got the 190mm rear/120mm BB combo - but since 100mm shells are common, it also has a pair of 10mm spacers which fit on either side of the spindle.
They're not cheap, but RaceFace's new Cinch cranks are pretty sweet. Have a set on my wife's bike, and want a set for mine. What's cool about them is the spindle is separate from both crank arms, so you can get a wide spindle for the fat bike, but if you wanted to transfer the cranks to a "skinny" bike, you just get a new spindle. The cranks I have on my fat bike have the spindle attached to the one crank arm, so those cranks will only work on a fat bike. RaceFace has a really flexible system available there.
Brakes - for a while, Shimano has owned the disk brake market, but SRAM's latest offerings are getting really good reviews. I've got zero complaints about the Shimano brakes I've worked with, SLX, XT, XTR - they're all choice, but I got a set of Guide RS brakes on one bike and they're just as good. One finger power with easy modulation. Seems like brakes have become really solid.
Tubeless tires - yes, definitely. Only tires I've got experience with are the Vee Snowshoe 4.5, which measure just over 4.0" on an 80mm rim, and seemed pretty good in everything except... amusingly enough -- snow. No experience with anything else recently, but I hear the Husker Du tires are really sweet. Whatever you run, run it tubeless. I got a sweet set of 80mm carbon rims from Peter at XMCarbonSpeed that built up into a really nice set of wheels. Much easier to get rims designed for tubeless than trying any of the really hackish DIY tubeless conversions you'll see on the non-tubeless specific rims.
Unfortunately not in the Syracuse area, but there's a bunch of us who are more than willing to help answer questions!
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Get the 170mm qr factor cranks. Mine fit perfect on the ns-019.
Check out r2-bikes or bike 24.
Got my full groupset off r2. Great deal on tires as well. I would buy Dillinger 4-5 studless or studded but bike 24 offers great deals on studs from Schwabe in do it your self which make for alot cheaper.
I also noticed schwalbes jumbo jims just went down in price from bike 24 to unspeakable low price.
My 2 cents
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@rvc this crankset is 170mm spindle ??
As @final forum mentioned, he is on 170mm Sram spindle. I would like to use Race Face Aeffect spindle that acieve a 74,5mm Chain line with an acceptable Qfactor (205mm)
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Just want to say a big thankyou for this post. Bought a Chinese carbon frame with rigid forks. After alot of tooing and frowing i decided to go with some Bluto forks.
New forks turned up, fitted them and..... Bugger wouldnt turn.
I was pointed in this direction bought the spacer, waited 5 weeks thanks to UK customs and boom.... Out on the trails
Happy fat biker
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Awesome! Thanks for the note Paul and happy fatbiking!!
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Just a long term update on my N019 bike experience --in short, the bike is still running great!
I've tweaked a few things over the years, namely around the stem length and drivetrain.
Stem length
It took a while for me to dial in the turn-in feel caused by the long fork+spacer induced rake. I adjusted the front & rear tire pressures and stem length, and I also went to a flat Ti bar. The only surprise really was the impact the rear tire pressure seems to make. Up or down a few Psi transforms the bike substantially. I expected this for the front tire pressure, but the rear tire makes a notable difference as well. I suppose it is because the rear ride height changes, hence the head angle...
Drivetrain
The XT/XTR 10 speed setup gave way to the Di2-ification of the rest of my bike fleet, I now run a 1x10 Di2 setup with a 6770 Ultegra rear derailleur and an XTR shifter. It works just fine with the derailleur hanger extender and a 42t cassette big ring. With a 32t oval ring up front, there’s plenty of gear going up.
I’ve taken the bike almost 1000 miles and now live on the west coast, where single track is either up or down 15 degrees. Not much flat anymore, and I’ve been really impressed that, we’ll, the frame hasn’t snapped from the foolish descents I’ve taken on it. No I’m not hitting 10’ drops and ramps on it, but there have been dozens of “whoa” moments where I pondered my sanity and the structural integrity of the head tube.
My greatest annoyance with the bike is the fork axle and crankset — neither of which are the frame’s fault. The drive side BB screw just loves to back out 4mi in regardless of threadlocker. Since moving west, my MTB trail vehicle is now a Porsche Boxster which while cool as heck requires removing the front wheel 2x per ride. Pulling out the 15mm Bitex axle is a pain, and I may be switching to a Mendon Cyclery Lefty fat conversion this winter.
The bike is a huge collection of unique weird hacks and oddities, and I admit I enjoy the befuddled look of dudes on their cookie cutter Specializeds. Especially passing them uphill 8)
Here’s a short compilation video featuring this project bike and the Boxster bike rack rigging.
Cheers!
https://youtu.be/y5iq7wSJXXk
-Robert