Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29+ & 27+ => Topic started by: bxcc on January 17, 2016, 09:20:50 AM
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So here is the Workswell / Sobato WCB-M-078 Plus frame. I will be building it as a 29+ so it's in the 29er section. And since all bikes need a name, and "my chubby bike" wasn't quite cutting it, I thought "Muffin Top" would be appropriate.
I ordered the frame from Sobato Bikes on Amazon for $579. The listing stated the frame came with the fork and an email to the seller confirmed this. After placing the order, the seller asked if I was interested in ordering the fork too. :o So I sent another email asking why the change and included the original email stating it was included, the responded that night (12 hour time difference) informing me that "their partner" made a mistake but they will honor the email and send the fork. I ordered it on December 18th, it shipped on the 22nd, and I received it on the 30th. Pretty quick shipping.
But there was a problem. The box was pretty rough on one end and looked like it was torn open then taped shut. So I took some pictures and set up my phone to take a video while I opened it. I'm glad I did because when I opened it, there was NO fork in the box. Talk about a WTF moment. So off to the computer I go to send an email asking about my fork. Since no one likes to be accused of things, and I have no idea what happened, I asked about a shipping insurance claims on their end and mentioned I could provide pictures and a video if it would help the claim. They responded that night with "the packager must have made a mistake, we will send a new fork out to you". A couple hours later I got a second email with a tracking number and the fork arrived 9 days. So they took care of the issues, great, it's all I can ask for.
On to the building, everything was going very smooth and appeared to be on par with their 062 frame I have. Fit and finish is 100% but nothing a little clean up won't take care of. Maybe 95% perfect. And then I start to route the rear brake hose through the chainstay. It did not want to go through. It was a dead stop so I knew it wasn't just a tight fit. I take it to work and peak in with a borescope and find some bag or resin residue. Luckily I was able to get in there with a 12" long bit and open it up enough to get the line routed. Yes it's irritating but not nearly as much as sending it back and waiting for another one.
So now the cables are all routed, brakes are installed, and so are the handlebars, fork, rear derailleur, and shifter. I have decided to add some color to this one. I haven't decided on the accent color yet, either orange or purple. I prefer orange so I will go that route unless it just looks off. I apologize for being long winded but I wanted to share the experience. Now for the pictures.
(http://s8.postimg.org/5t7qud1lt/IMG_2122.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5t7qud1lt/)
(http://s8.postimg.org/u0sbywpk1/IMG_2123.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/u0sbywpk1/)
(http://s8.postimg.org/46ij94pk1/IMG_2124.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/46ij94pk1/)
(http://s29.postimg.org/e2o7mg807/IMG_2103.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4uvz5r0xv/full/)
http://postimg.org/image/gtbly1pez/
http://postimg.org/image/7slnv8nol/
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Looking forward to seeing the build up and hearing your thoughts on the ride. Need more 29 plus around here, I think it's a great compromise between 29er and fat bikes and I look for it to become a much more popular platform. We'll see, I guess.
Also, Muffin Top is a great name, we should include more nicknames in titles around here would make it easier to navigate and remember various threads/builds. All the numbers get confusing.
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So the only update I have is cosmetic. Due to the Chinese New Year, my rims are still not finished. So I spent a little time puttering with the decals.
(http://s21.postimg.org/3lyv4zuhv/IMG_2197.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3lyv4zuhv/)
(http://s21.postimg.org/6rjgv7d43/IMG_2198.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6rjgv7d43/)
(http://s21.postimg.org/6ouzumk2r/IMG_2199.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6ouzumk2r/)
(http://s21.postimg.org/3oiqrty5f/IMG_2200.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3oiqrty5f/)
(http://s21.postimg.org/htojtn76r/IMG_2201.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/htojtn76r/)
(http://s15.postimg.org/65phpetaf/IMG_2206.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/65phpetaf/)
(http://s15.postimg.org/nk9pxoqfb/IMG_2209.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/nk9pxoqfb/)
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Cool graphics!
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Good looking build. I also like the decals.
I'm glad everything went out well for you in the end. Mistakes can happen on the sellers side. Therefore it's good to hear that there are more companies with descend customer service. Still it is a bit weird that despite your email conversation beforehand your package came without fork ::) .
Looking forward to read more about your bike.
I'll be also building a 29er with green decals - hopefully within the next two months. Then I'll post my build as well.
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I'll be also building a 29er with green decals - hopefully within the next two months. Then I'll post my build as well.
Thanks. Which 29er are you going with? If I was to do it over again, I probably would have went with this frame to begin with rather than the 062 mainly because it allows for more configurations. I am really happy and impressed with the 062 but there is a lot of overlap. The 062 is more traditional in looks but realistically there only 4 main differences. 1) HA is about 1 degree steeper with 078, 2) CS length is 10mm longer or 5mm shorter depending on dropout choice, 3) more clearance in the stays, and 4) about 100 grams more in weight. (These numbers are what you get going with the plus bike rather than the 062)
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My choice fell on the Dashine frame xcbarny ordered. See "Frame specs for 29er hardtails". I like the geometry, weight and price. Furthermore Dashine has a few more nice parts which I'll buy. Although all their parts on Alibaba seem to be shipped for free.
Anyway it's going to be a race bike, mainly. So no plus version.
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Fantastic job on the graphics. I would totally consider a sticker kit like that for my bike over paint in the future. You ever consider selling them?
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Thanks. I actually have considered it. My brother and sister in law have their own screen printing / embroidery / vinyl business so that makes it a little easier if I wanted to venture down that road. I need to get over to their shop and play with the program a bit to see what I can come up with. For my chiner builds, it all started with GKARTA then spun off from there. I grabbed some extra material and just played around with it a little at a time. Work, kids, skiing and fat bike trail grooming seem to take most of my time lately. It's a rough life. ;D
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Hey bxcc,
Just found this thread on the 29+ frame that you purchased. Any more updates? I'm considering this frame and was impressed with your pictures and logos.
Anyways, can you run and internally routed dropper post with this frame? I don't see any places to route the cable. Could it be possibly run down through the bottom bracket and up the seat tube? This is a deal breaker for me......I don't think I can live without my dropper!
Thanks in advance.
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Sorry again for more questions, but did you order a carbon wheelset to fit this frame? I've seen the 42 or 50 mm sets with boost 110/148 hubs, but haven't heard of anyone trying them. Just wanted some feedback on them. Thanks!
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I'm not sure about the dropper post. I know there isn't a factory option but like you said, it may run down and around the BB. From there it could go up the downtube and possibly out one of the brake or shifter cable holes. I say possibly because the holes have a cover plate that the cable just fits through. But two cables may fit if you do not use the cover plate. I can do some experimenting when I get home on Sunday but I'm pretty sure you could make something work. To elaborate a little, the cover plates are 2 pieces. One is the cover and one is the base. The base has a oblong hole for the cable and one end has a hole threaded to secure the cover plate. The base is bonded into the frame during the layup process. You can grind or file the base to make the hole bigger to fit two cables. To do this, you will only be filing the aluminum base not the carbon structure so there shouldn't be any safety issues.
All of my wheel parts are ordered but nothing has arrived yet. I opted for the RM950C rims from Peter at XMCarbonspeed. I ordered them a week ago but I haven't gotten any updates yet. Judging by his FB posts of the Taipei bike show, I'm assuming he is there and the rims will have to wait. As for hubs, I went with Hope Pro4 boost hubs in orange. I wanted lime green I9 hubs but I couldn't justify the extra $200 when I have been very happy with my other Hope hubs. So orange it is.
Feel free to ask all the questions you want. That's what these forums are for. To help us all blow out disposable and sometimes non-disposable income on bike stuff.
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Thanks bxcc, I see what you mean about the cover plates and possibly fitting 2 cables through them, although it would make me nervous to buy the frame and then find out that it can't be done with an internal dropper post.
It seems like the chinese vendors still aren't up to date on any internal routing for dropper posts, which is unusual. I would think they would be including more for internal posts and less for front derailleurs since that seems to be the trend.
Looking forward to seeing your fully assembled bike with the carbon rims.
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Orange Hope hubs have arrived and they look pretty sweet. I also ordered some Aerolite spokes instead of DT Comps so that will help save a little over a 100 grams on the wheels. And as far as rims go, I ordered the 50mm rims with reinforced spoke holes from Peter
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Quick update. Wheels are done! Putting the finishing touches on the bike and might get it out for a bit this week. Will post bike pics later.
(http://s13.postimg.org/agdpqljnn/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/agdpqljnn/)
(http://s13.postimg.org/wprmx5f43/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wprmx5f43/)
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Bike is finished. 21.8 pounds with XT Trail pedals.
(http://s30.postimg.org/9dm7qcz25/IMG_0226.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9dm7qcz25/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/6tzrnqq9p/IMG_0230.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6tzrnqq9p/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/416k3ppx9/IMG_0232.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/416k3ppx9/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/gq0undw1p/IMG_0235.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gq0undw1p/)
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Bxcc, very nice pics! I was thinking of throwing on a set of 27+ wheels on my Chiner Hardtail but after seeing your pictures, they are making me want to build a 29+ complete bike instead. I've been looking hard at the Trek Stache and this is close to being a Chiner version of the Trek, I may just wait a bit and build up something like what you have.
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I guess that 29+ is the way to go if you want full rigid. And this bike is just awesome. The only point I don't like is the cable routing of the rear derailleur (out of the frame in the middle).
Then, I still believe that 27.5+ is better for hard tail or short travel full.
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Thanks. I am very pleased with the bike so far. The rollover is just amazing. I had the pressures up around 22 to 25 pounds (wanted to make sure they were sealed up good and didn't want to have to walk home) so I know I didn't get the full traction benefit. But with that, it didn't feel like sluggish or slow at all. After trying the WTB Trailblazers on my 062 frame, I knew I wanted to have a dedicated plus bike for winter / crappy weather riding. I also wanted something with great "rollover" capabilities as one of the riding areas next to my house is full of rocks and roots and there is ZERO flow or buffed trails as you can see in one of the pictures. Carbon_Dude, I wouldn't say that a new wheelset for converting an existing frame to 27+ is a waste of money but if the bike budget allows, just go for the dedicated 29+. You won't be disappointed. And with the higher tire pressures, I really couldn't tell much difference in handling vs my rigid 062 bike.
I guess that 29+ is the way to go if you want full rigid. And this bike is just awesome. The only point I don't like is the cable routing of the rear derailleur (out of the frame in the middle).
Then, I still believe that 27.5+ is better for hard tail or short travel full.
As far as rigid vs HT vs FS, I would have to agree with some members on MTBR. For rigid and HT, if you can comfortably fit on a 29+, don't waste your time on a 27+. And yes I've ridden a 27+ rigid bike. The benefit over a standard 29er is there but it just isn't that much of one. Now for a FS bike, I would have to stay with 27.5 x 2.3ish tires on 30mm internal rims. I'm not sure yet if it's worth the weight penalty when traction isn't an issue in the standard format. The nice things is that there are SOOO many options right now and it's only getting better.
The cable thing is just an unfortunate necessity. There really isn't any other way to do it other than dropping the stay to the normal level and keeping it internal which also makes the CS's longer, or just use the cable stops that are pop riveted on but those are just ugly IMO.
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How does the fork feel? Can you measure the actual geometry as built, e.g. head angle and axle-to-crown?
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The fork feels like a rigid fork. Fun and painful at the same time. The tires do help though. The A to C measurement is 495mm and with that, the HA should be around 71.5 but I can take the digital level home and see how accurate that is. I am assuming I would take the angle measurement from the imaginary line that runs between the center of the lower headtube hole and the center of the axle?
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The fork feels like a rigid fork. Fun and painful at the same time. The tires do help though. The A to C measurement is 495mm and with that, the HA should be around 71.5 but I can take the digital level home and see how accurate that is. I am assuming I would take the angle measurement from the imaginary line that runs between the center of the lower headtube hole and the center of the axle?
I think that would measure the angle of the triangle created by the fork offset, and the HA is the angle of just the (extended) head tube line. WW has a measurement shown for a 530 fork, if that's accurate, and I wondered how much steeper it got in reality with the shorter rigid fork. Thanks!
(http://www.workswellbikes.com/upload/images/20150819134044_85061.jpg)
Edit: and I see that WW does spec it at 71.5deg for the 495mm a-c fork. A reality check would be nice if possible. :)
(http://www.workswellbikes.com/upload/images/20151026140935_96881.jpg)
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Yup. You are correct. I forgot about the offset part of it. I will see what I can get tonight. By the numbers it appears to be about 1 degree steeper than the Trek Stache. Which for me is fine as this is a purely XC bike. But it was one of the deciding factors when looking at frames before I got this one.
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I measured the HA with the rigid fork at 71.5 degrees. Seems they are pretty accurate on their claims.
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If you have an iPhone you can use the electronic level to make a HA measurement.
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If you have an iPhone you can use the electronic level to make a HA measurement.
One would think I would have thought of that. I ended up bringing the old school prop protractor home and taking a manual measurement. So technically I measured it at 71.4. ;)
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Old school works! Thanks for doing it. Good to hear that Workswell is accurately reporting their geometries.
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I would rather have a 69.5 deg head tube angle, that's what my -057 has and I really like the geometry of that frame. If I were to build this frame I'd go with 120mm travel which would give me 69.5, maybe a little less which is fine with me.
I am even considering a 29+ full suspension frame if I can find one, however, nobody seems to be making a FS version yet.
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Hey bxcc,
Love the pics of your bike built up. Looks great, and is ridiculously light!
Was wondering about the carbon wheels you had built up for your bike. How do you like them?
I went ahead and got a great deal on a Stache 9, am loving it so far! Don't think I could go back to my 29er or even 27.5+. The reason I'm asking about the wheels is that's the next upgrade to the bike. Would like your feedback if posssible.
Thanks
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Hey bxcc,
Love the pics of your bike built up. Looks great, and is ridiculously light!
Was wondering about the carbon wheels you had built up for your bike. How do you like them?
I went ahead and got a great deal on a Stache 9, am loving it so far! Don't think I could go back to my 29er or even 27.5+. The reason I'm asking about the wheels is that's the next upgrade to the bike. Would like your feedback if posssible.
Thanks
Hey, a fellow Stache owner! Upgrading wheels is in the plan but for now I am sticking with the Mulefut alloy wheels. I figure I'd drop about 600 grams if I did an upgrade to 50mm carbon wheels with DT Swiss hubs which would be sweet as Im not too crazy about the single wall alloy wheels that come on the Stache but so far no problems.
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Hey bxcc,
Love the pics of your bike built up. Looks great, and is ridiculously light!
Was wondering about the carbon wheels you had built up for your bike. How do you like them?
I went ahead and got a great deal on a Stache 9, am loving it so far! Don't think I could go back to my 29er or even 27.5+. The reason I'm asking about the wheels is that's the next upgrade to the bike. Would like your feedback if posssible.
Thanks
Thanks, I am very pleased with the final product. The only thing that is a concern is the steep head angle. I really want to try it with a 120 fork to get it around 69.5 or so. But a new fork isn't in the cards right now. Especially since this bike was intended to be a winter / crappy weather bike. I'm not sure what it is but I am having more fun on the 062 single speed. The measurements are all pretty close expect for the head angle and 3 pounds of tires and gears. Which the 062 is at 70.5 with the rigid fork. Maybe it's all in my head.....
As for the wheels, so far they have been great. I am down to about 13psi or so and I still haven't had much for rim strikes and my riding weight is about 180 pounds. They don't feel heavy when I'm riding but I can notice a difference when I get back on the 5010 or WW-062 SS. But to be honest, I still have less than 250 miles on the bike. Now that the weather is nice and the trails are dry, I have been riding the SS and 5010. For reference, the SS wheel set weighs roughly 1725g and has 29x2.2 Bontrager XR2's and the 5010 wheels are 1750g and have 27.5x2.35 Bontrager XR3 (rear) and XR4 (front) tires.
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Hey, a fellow Stache owner! Upgrading wheels is in the plan but for now I am sticking with the Mulefut alloy wheels. I figure I'd drop about 600 grams if I did an upgrade to 50mm carbon wheels with DT Swiss hubs which would be sweet as Im not too crazy about the single wall alloy wheels that come on the Stache but so far no problems.
Did you get a weight on the stock wheel set? You have the 7 correct?
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Yes, Stache 7, stock wheels. According to Sun-Ringle they weigh 2,310g, a 50mm carbon wheel set would weigh about 1,700g, so about a pound and a half less.
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Nice build!
Quick question, can this frame be easily converted to singlespeed using sliding/horizontal dropouts (like the Stache)?
Thanks ahead of time!
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Nope. No sliding or adjustable dropouts. There are two positions but the shorter one won't fit 29+ wheels so that isn't an option. The best option is probably going for an EBB.
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Nope. No sliding or adjustable dropouts. There are two positions but the shorter one won't fit 29+ wheels so that isn't an option. The best option is probably going for an EBB.
Damn, ok. Thanks for the quick response!
I'm trying to build a hassle-free SS 29+ to replace my current -057 SS build (which itself requires a tensioner), so it looks like I'll probably need to stick to name brand frames for a "pure" or "native" SS. I really wish there were more SS-friendly Chiner options... :(
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:) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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now the WCB-M-078(27.5er+/29er/29er+ have a big discount price , pls feel free to contact with me, love yours
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Hi bxcc,
Just curious if you could give an update on the frame, as I am thinking of going with the same one.
Also, how stiff do you think the frame is compared to others you have ridden?
Finally, is the paint your design, or Workswell's, and how do you rate the quality?
Thanks!
Turtle
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how stiff do you think the frame is compared to others you have ridden?
Finally, is the paint your design, or Workswell's, and how do you rate the quality?
The frame is still holding up great and I put more miles on it over the winter. I'm still pleased with it but I would like to add a suspension fork to it eventually. As it sits, it's pretty much a winter / mud season bike. So with that, it's plenty stiff for what I've done with it and I have no complaints in that regard.
The paint is actually just vinyl decals that I made up. Otherwise the matte UD finish is fine and so isn't the rest of the quality.
If this frame ticks all the boxes, I say go for it. I would have no hesitation about getting another one. Keep us posted on your build.