Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: carbonazza on June 14, 2016, 04:55:44 PM
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I finally tried cheap Ti spindles two months ago.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/RockBros-Titanium-Ti-Bike-Bicyle-Pedal-Spindle-for-Crank-Brothers-Egg-Beater-Candy-1-2-3/1752403716.html
However while hunting a creak that appeared recently, I found out it was coming from the left pedal( amplified as usual by the frame ).
Look at what I saw when disassembling it (the top one):
(http://i.imgur.com/yBW7ung.jpg)
Scary isn't it?
The bottom one is new, as I received two left side by mistake :)
The other spindle(right side) is not as bad, but already well underway.
After breaking 2 crank brothers in 2 years.
And having tried cheap Ti spindles, I'm afraid it is time to look for another brand of pedals.
Anyone has relatively light pedals and still happy after months of usage :) ?
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I love my speedplay frogs, though probably not the best if you get a lot of mud. They give a really solid conection, as they don't rely on the soles of your shoe for support.
Previous to that i was on time Atacs for many years, with few durability issues, just a bit pricey.
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Did you break the steel eggbeaters too, or just Ti?
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Hello
I recently bought a set of TI spindles too in order to solve an issue with too narrow Q-factor on my crankset. I saw the Aliexpress ones but did not trust their manufacturing process as I have read that their TI usually contains way too much aluminium. I bought from this USA based producer/seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/151575142140 and after 500 km of riding, they basically looks like new even I'm 220 pounds and heavier than their max weight recommendation.
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Wow, I thought Ti should be strong and sturdy... I have steel eggbeater and still works at it best...
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The problem with Titanium is that depending on quality it will be stronger or weaker then steel. I'd bet that the CB Ti spindle is high quality (but such expensive!) when the cheap ones are weak. I'd stick to steel.
I would recommend Time pedals. They are perfect to me:
- Large float (allows to move freely on the pedals without unclipping)
- Nice mud shedding (better then Shimano, probably not as good as CB)
- Very good weight/price ratio: I found a good deal on XC 8 (carbon / steel), 100€ / 287g the pair. Time XC 12 (carbon / Ti) are 200€ / 244g (but can be found cheaper, probably 160€ when hunting for deals).
- there is still some material around the spring so they are protected from rocks and there is a nice area for the foot to land unclipped. They are still in perfect condition (no damage, no play) after 15 month. I haven't done any preventive maintenance.
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Xpedo XMF08TT are light (215g) shimano-style pedals, people have been happy with them.
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Thank you all for the information.
I'll review Xpedo( I saw already these skinny beauties on r2-bike.com ), Time( I need some float similar to CB pedals ) and Speedplay models.
The pedals that failed:
An Eggbeater 2, all the inside parts exploded in pieces.
The spindle wasn't broken but well striped.
A Candy 1, the spring snapped in two pieces.
Nothing related to the spindle.
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carbonazza, like you I have liked Eggbeater pedals for many years. However, my recent experience from 2 years ago when I broke a spindle got me thinking about changing pedals. However, since Crankbrothers warrantied my replacement pedals and I ended up with three new sets, I have stuck with them for now.
However, if I were to change, I'd try the second most popular pedal out there, Shimano XT/XTR. In recent years Shimano has improved the design of the pedals and other riders who have switched did so because the Shimano pedal have zero maintenance and extremely high reliability.
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What almost got me into the Xpedo is the SPD compatibility. Shimano SPD is still the most common standard, so that it is easier to try someone else's bike or get someone test your bike w/o changing pedals. And as much as I like the weight of the Xpedo, I still question their ability to stand All-Mountain abuse, hitting rocks regularly. So I stick to my Time pedals as long as they don't break, but most my friends have Shimano and it sucks that I can't just pull the leg over their bike and test it :(
I'm so used to generous float now that I'm not sure I could go back to other pedals. My previous pedals were Look S-Track and they were rigid as hell, 0° of float. Perfect for commuting or road.
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if I were to change, I'd try the second most popular pedal out there, Shimano XT/XTR.
I started with a pair of XT, but like sportingGoods it looks I'm used to some float now, and found them rather rigid, when using them as backup pedals.
@sportingGoods, I'm confused, do the XPEDO are SPD with float? Or only CB and Time provide it?
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It's hard to tell until you have tried yourself. Numbers mean nothing. The Look S-Track claim 3° of float, this is very inaccurate, it is really 0°, you are stuck in one position once clipped. The SPD design does not seem to call for real float, so I would say the feeling is nowhere near CB or Time.
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One more thing to keep in mind is that Shimano SPD has 2 types of cleats, one of which allows a certain level of horizontal play : http://www.berklix.org/bike/shimano/cleats/ Nevertheless, for the Ti XPEDO pedals, steel shimano cleats are not recommended. Brass cleats are included and IIRC you can get TI cleats as well.
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I bought from this USA based producer/seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/151575142140 and after 500 km of riding, they basically looks like new even I'm 220 pounds and heavier than their max weight recommendation.
Having had chain failures in the past, I wouldn't be in any rush to overload pedal spindles. Having one of them fail while you're really cranking on the bike is going to end _very_ badly, and if you happen to be going fast at the time, it'll be very badly indeed. I'm 220lb and value my nuts and face far too much to ride Ti spindles by anyone.
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The problem with Titanium is that depending on quality it will be stronger or weaker then steel. I'd bet that the CB Ti spindle is high quality (but such expensive!) when the cheap ones are weak. I'd stick to steel.
No. Got a degree in mechanical engineering and was into bikes when I went to school so was particularly interested in the materials aspect. Titanium is _not_ stronger than steel - it may have a higher specific strength, which is to say its strength relative to its weight, but there is no grade of titanium that is stronger than any decent grade of steel.
Looking at specific strength, there are grades of aluminum that are stronger than steel - relative to their weight - but you wouldn't make pedal spindles out of it.
Even with the highest quality aircraft grade titanium I would _NOT_ run Ti spindles if I were over 180lbs or so - the diameter of the pedal spindles is just far too small, and the penalty for a spindle failure is too damn painful.
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Hi cmh! Agreed that my statement means nothing :D "Strong" is not a physical property (my teachers would have not accepted "strong" as a proper answer) but that's what people understand in real life :)
The relevant parameter here is "shear strength". It is the best one to describe what could happen to the spindle if it was to brake. Again, depending on the grade, Ti alloy will have higher or lower shear strength then Steel alloy.
A basic page with relevant numbers: http://www.tikore.com/titanium-facts/
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No. Got a degree in mechanical engineering and was into bikes when I went to school so was particularly interested in the materials aspect.
Me too!
Here is some good reading on Ti as it relates to bicycle parts:
http://www.ibiscycles.com/support/technical_articles/metallurgy_for_cyclists/the_titanium_advantage/ (http://www.ibiscycles.com/support/technical_articles/metallurgy_for_cyclists/the_titanium_advantage/)
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OK, I found a better reference available online:
https://www.ti64.com/v/vspfiles/assets/docs/fasteners%20101.pdf
cmh is right, the "strongest" steel alloy is "stronger" then the "strongest" Ti alloy. But steel alloy will rust. So you want stainless steel. Then, most Ti Alloy are "stronger" then stainless steel, except low grades of Ti alloy.
EDIT: in an effort to provide clarity (and simplicity), I would rank the materials as follows.
Low grade of Ti < Stainless Steel < High grade of Ti = regular grade of Steel < high grade of Steel
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Don't get me wrong, Ti is wonderful stuff. I've got a Ti road bike sitting right behind me as I type this that has given me tons of good miles since 2002 and will continue to do so as long as I can foresee. I've run Ti bolts, Ti saddle rails, all manner of Ti parts. It's wonderful stuff.
All I'm saying is if you're a big person, Ti spindles are not a good idea. It's just too small of a diameter to capitalize on the strengths of Ti. Hell, even Grace has had a Ti spindle fail on her eggbeaters, but that was several years back and the design was pretty rife with stress risers. She's been on full Ti Egg 11s for a while now, and they've been fine.
Also, I've had several pedals with non-stainless spindles. Sure, it can rust, if you're not paying any attention to your components. Otherwise, grease keeps that from happening. ;D
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You guys are rough. I've been riding the same pair for 10 years!
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You guys are rough. I've been riding the same pair for 10 years!
The CB Ti?
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After blowing again another pair of Crank Brothers pedals(lasted may be 10 months), I give up on that brand.
There was a relatively good deal on an online shop for a pair of Mavic Crossmax SL Ti ATAC.
They look like a copy of the Time Atac XC12.
While waiting them to arrive, I looked if there was cleats available on aliexpress.
And found these pedals (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Costelo-ATAC-Titan-Carbon-Pedals-MTB-Bike-Pedals-Bicycle-Parts-bike-cleats/32744155218.html?spm=2114.40010608.4.18.DRKXLP) ( another copy obviously )
Not sure why but the page and its explanations looks somehow good to me.
Anyone tried these pedals?
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They are copy of the Time XC12. If they are just relabeled from the factory it is a VERY good deal, they cost about 200€.
http://www.probikeshop.fr/time-pedales-atac-xcaa2-ti-carbon-noir/81438.html
I use the XC8 for years now (same as XC12 but axle is not Ti) and love them. They are perfect to me. I would try the Chinese copy but have no plan to change my pedals for now.
They are solid, no specific maintenance, shed mud nicely, light and provide a wide float. This is very nice for MTB as you can really freely move around the bike without unclipping.
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I couldn't resist to my curiosity yesterday, and ordered a pair.
If they arrive fast( unlikely, but sometimes it happen ) and look good/solid,... I'll return the Mavic.
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Actually I could buy a pair for my road bike ::)
It's a bit of a pain to swap them between MTB and road bike. Let me know how it goes and I might order as well.
Thanks!
EDIT: thinking twice about it I might just buy yours if you consider they are good quality but come in too late to return the Mavic. Well, that's if you want to sell them, that leaves you options!
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OK, I'll keep you posted.
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Looking further into this vendor I see he has the same pedals for Road (Time Titanium road pedals). Same price.
https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product/Time-Xpresso-12-Titan-Carbon-Pedals-Road-Bike-Pedals/106197_1970117445.html?isOrigTitle=true
I'm really tempted to give those a try...
I see only positive feedback, people even say they are identical to original. Looks like 2 weeks delivery lead time.
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$10 cheaper :)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New2015-new-Bicycle-Helmet-Ultralight-Cycling-Helmet-costelo-Integrally-molded-Bike-Helmet-Road-Mountain-MTB/32504358001.html
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And again 4.5$ cheaper. Yes, 65.5 USD for a pair of Titanium/Carbon road pedals that cost about 220€ in France. That was so low that I've just ordered them!
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/discount-sale-costelo-Xpresso-12-Titan-Carbon-Pedals-Road-Bike-Pedals-Road-Bicycle-Parts-Pedal-lock/32666399964.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=122204
Sorry Carbonazza I will finally not take your pedals, but I think that you'll probably just keep them! If I was you I would return the Mavic/Time pedals even if the Chinese ones don't arrive on time.
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...If I was you I would return the Mavic/Time pedals even if the Chinese ones don't arrive on time.
That's probably what is going to happen
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I had a lot of thoughts into the road bike shoes/pedals. Swapping pedals between road bike/MTB was not the main problem. The main problem was the cleats position on the shoes. I don't want them the same: under the toe ball for road and pushed to the rear for MTB. You can't change that everytime, it's a real pain, you risk that it's not positioned properly.
So, what I really needed was 2 pair of shoes, and it didn't make any sense to me to buy a MTB pair for a road-only usage. If road pedals exist, there must be a reason why they are more suited then MTB pedals. Anyway, I'll discover the reason by Christmas. I'll stick those pedals under the tree :)
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Road pedals seems to be much lighter.
Cleats are made of plastic and lighter too.
May be just weight?
I though may be they are more rigid, but road ATAC have even some float too.
For my upcoming road build I thought I would share the same shoes/pedals with my MTB.
And you just did put me in doubt now, thanks! :)
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My pleasure ;D
Now you know you are 65.5 USD away to get the top of the range of road pedals :-\
I guess that as long as you don't want to change the position of the cleats you can still easily swap road/MTB. After testing the cleats pushed to the rear on MTB (advice from friends and a video from Fabien Barrel) I have adopted it and feel a lot better in the DH. But that's not comfortable to pedal on road bike. What I do for now is use the road setup both for MTB and road. And honestly, so far, with this setup my MTB shoes/pedals are just fine on road. Just a bit too much float, which can be annoying when pushing hard.
I'll let you know my feeling on road pedals/shoes. On top of what you mention, I've seen that the road setup enables to get the foot closer to the axle of the pedal, but I struggle to understand why this is an advantage... :o
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And again 4.5$ cheaper. Yes, 65.5 USD for a pair of Titanium/Carbon road pedals that cost about 220€ in France. That was so low that I've just ordered them!
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/discount-sale-costelo-Xpresso-12-Titan-Carbon-Pedals-Road-Bike-Pedals-Road-Bicycle-Parts-Pedal-lock/32666399964.html?detailNewVersion=&categoryId=122204
Hi SportingGoods,
Please let us know if you experience any problems with those pedals. That is, if you have a chance to use them over the winter. I will need a new pair for the next season and they look great, on the paper at least.
Thnx
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Pedals have arrived, on time (pun intended) before Xmas! Some unboxing first:
Came in a nasty box (there was a black plastic wrap)
(https://s12.postimg.org/w01tpqcu5/IMG_2998.jpg)
Good, this is the right product, comes with cleats and bolts! I was not 100% sure the cleats would come with the pedals.
(https://s13.postimg.org/d5o88fniv/IMG_2999.jpg)
Hollow axle, good, confirmed Ti (doesn't attract magnet), good
(https://s13.postimg.org/97guo73c7/IMG_3003.jpg)
Funny, those are obviously made in China ::)
(https://s13.postimg.org/izwrspjlz/IMG_3001.jpg)
I can't test those for now, I don't have road bike shoes! Still, I can tell that these are clearly copy of Time, not from the same factory. They are almost exactly the same, but a few tiny details tell me this is a different mold (looking at Time pictures on the web). Weight is on the high side, 163g the pair (claim 160g +/- 4g), which is still crazy light. Cleats are on the high weight too (62g, presented as 54g).
Trying to rotate manually the axle, it is very tight, no play, this is good. What is not as good is the sound, you can tell there is not enough grease inside. I'll need to open the pedals and add good quality grease before I use those.
Overall, I'm pretty satisfied so far. Considering the cost (USD 65.50, shipping included), I can't ask for more, but they are not the real "made in France" Time pedals.
UPDATE:
After dismounting the pedals, I know for sure they are not originals (but they never claim it is). First, you open the 2 pedals turning the same way when the original for sure open in opposite direction. Then, there is only one bearing inside. The end of the axle is supported by a plastic ring. I don't like that. I've ordered needle bearings to replace those (good quality, SKF, 10€ for 2).
Then I've found the reason of the rubbing. It was not a grease problem (even though the grease I'll use to replace it is of better quality). It is a stupid design problem. They use a plastic washer in-between the red "cap" and the bearing, causing the red cap to push on the inner part of the bearing (the mobile one) instead of the outer part. It's simple as removing the washer for the bearing to rotate freely. Note that it takes hammering to extract the bearing from the axle. I'm glad I've done all this, they should function nicely now, and longer!
(https://s17.postimg.org/swwdya93j/IMG_3005.jpg)
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Here is a picture of a dismantled Costelo XC pedal.
(http://i.imgur.com/Xo2asae.jpg)
I thought I would find a pair of bearings per pedal to replace.
But instead I get a bearing + a bushing. A disappointment.
From my Crank Brothers' experience, the bushing erode the Ti significantly over time.
Unfortunately there is no Needle Roller Bearings that match a 14x12mm diameter.
But it looks the original Time Atac are exactly the same to the Costelo in that regard.
I saw a video of someone maintaining a Time, and both the bushing and bearings look exactly the same.
And finally, the red sleeve next to the thread is of very good quality in fact.
So the more I see these pedals, the more I'm confident they will last.
Update in a few months!
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Hey carbonazza,
Any update on those pedals ? I'm thinking about getting a pair or two for myself.
Thanks!
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They are my backup pedals, and have been used for a couple of 1000 km.
You get the same weight as the Ti Time ones, but the quality is lower( bearings, springs, attaches )
The contact between the cleat and the pedal is less firm than my Mavic Time pedals.
But after a few km, I don't notice it much.
However they unclipped a couple of times when pedalling very hard.
There is an eccentric tension screw, but it is plastic and wears quickly.
So if you do not sprint madly they can be fine for the price.
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How would you compare them to standard Shimano system (520/540) ? I'm looking for something easier on my knees, something else then EggBeaters which I managed to smash on rocks twice.
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Time pedals have more float than Shimano, but less than EggBeaters.
After 3 pairs of exploded EggBeaters, every 9 months or so, @SportingGoods advised me to try the Time's.
They last longer(almost a year now), and feel stronger.
The mud clearance is as good.
And with a slightly larger platform, I noticed some more comfort on very long rides.
The metal binds on the pedal have some wear, but they still hold the cleat firmly.
Eggbeater may last longer on that front, as they have 4 positions to attach, Time have 2.
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i put chinese ti axels in my egg beater 3. 180lbs xc 2 years now working great.
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i put chinese ti axels in my egg beater 3. 180lbs xc 2 years now working great.
We should talk in miles/km, not in years/months when we talk about gear longevity.
The bike could stay two years in the garage, the pedals would look as new :)
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lets say at least 80hrs of riding.
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lets say at least 80hrs of riding.
Still not a very good way to measure a part's durability. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just laying this down so you can appreciate why we're measuring in distance rather than time.
80hrs, if we assume you do 5hrs of riding each day, that is like 16 days out of 730 days (2 years). For your reference, I usually ride on weekends with a few short rides on weekdays. Averaging 80km a week (some folks here averages over 200km a week). There's 52 weeks a year, so 80km multiplied by 52 weeks is around 4,160km a year. And that is just an estimate (I do 200-300kms on long Holidays). Assuming that I do 5hrs ride each time, that would be 4,160km divided by 5hrs, giving me 832 hrs worth of riding in a year. You've done 80hrs in 2 years... not exactly reliable data to base the durability of these Chinese Ti Spindles.
Again, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not mocking or demeaning your rides or opinions.
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cool cool. i get it. at least i hope i do. so just to be clear you like distance better? thanks.
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cool cool. i get it. at least i hope i do. so just to be clear you like distance better? thanks.
Not exactly we like distance better but more like using distance is a more suitable way of measuring bike parts durability or comfort level.
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well my ti aliexpress spindle snapped off about 7mm from the threads. ran it for a couple summers. weight 175lbs currently. snapped right after I converted the bike to single speed. couldn't handle the torque I think.