Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Midwest-MTBer on July 25, 2016, 10:28:22 PM
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Very excited to finally start one of these threads for myself! I'm tired of looking through all the other threads imagining what it will be like to have my own Chiner! So I have everything on order now... All of the components besides my wheels are here so I'm probably going to do some unboxing and building Friday when I get a little more time. Hopefully this carbon wheel-set from Peter is worth the wait! For now I'll upload my build list! I have to update the list a little more with new weights for rotors and also individual parts of the groupset, but for now I'm probably looking at a 26lb bike. A little heavy, but the dropper post, seat, tires and fork aren't the lightest that I could go!
(http://i.imgur.com/KdH8AII.png)
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Looks good. I wouldn't say at 11.3kg a full suspension bike is heavy, how's the build going?
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Here are some additional elements you will probably need. They prevented us finishing my brother's 036 today :(
- 2 bushing kits for the rear shock. On our frame the width was 21.8mm, the axle is 8mm and for a Monarch XX
- The seat clamp must be about 10mm wide, more is useless
- A PM/PM brake adapter is needed for a 180mm rotor(I though it would come with the XT brake set, like for my kid's bike, but no)
- Some black zippers to attach the rear hoses
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Alright! Updates. Frame looks pretty good. The UD Matte finish shows the layup more than I expected and you can sort of see the different pieces of carbon as sort of various streaks on the frame. It's not too bad, but it doesn't have a perfect even finish. I expect to put on some custom cut vinyl in September, so I'm not too concerned. The frame though... It's awesome. Holes look great, threads are clean and it just looks cool. I took it to the shop to have the headset installed and the crown race on the fork installed and they ended up just installing the fork for me too. That's fine, I could've done the fork myself, but if I'm paying for an hour I might as well get my money's worth out of it. I picked it up last night and was able to make my way through all the pivots greasing the spacers and sex bolts. I didn't bother pulling out the bearings. So now I just got back from the hardware store where I bought some blue threadlock and a set of 3/8" hex heads for my torque wrench. I'll lock those pivots and torque them to spec now before I start on the other stuff. I'm trying to document as thoroughly as I can, so you can expect to see a lot more images in the build book when I finish that. For now I'll just attach a few images with each update.
Carbonazza, I think I have everything that you mentioned... My seatpost clamp is just a tiny bit above the frame, but it doesn't bother me. I'll post a pic here later. Instead of zippers I bought the Jagwire stick on housing clips? They look really nice. They should route my dropper cable well.The only thing that will be holding me up is my wheels! They won't get here till next week. So I'll have to wait till next weekend to ride.
- Midwest
(http://i.imgur.com/SdnJ5AKl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7SwuwGVl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3ifuvAul.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2X6mf1ul.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HG4eGE8l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MVGM24Sl.jpg)
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Wow. Looks already cool.
Guys, I have a question regarding the fs frames weight. How do you think, which weight can be considered as 'light'? What is the weight 'trade-off' from the chinese fs frames over the branded one?
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Wow. Looks already cool.
Guys, I have a question regarding the fs frames weight. How do you think, which weight can be considered as 'light'? What is the weight 'trade-off' from the chinese fs frames over the branded one?
I can't speak for carbon fs frames but I've got an aluminium fs with 120mm travel, the frame alone was about 3kg and the complete bike built for all mountain use is 14kg.
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So the build is going well for the most part, I had to make a last minute purchase of hydraulic brake line from my LBS since my current rear line was too short. Only one shop in town had it and when I actually asked him for it he came out with shifter cable housing and tried to tell me it was a brake line... I awkwardly pointed out his mistake and informed him that it was shifter cable. Not sure if I really want to ever take my bike to that shop for service! So crisis adverted there, I installed the new line (threading through the 036 frame is so easy) and bled the system. The other stuff went fairly smoothly too. Installing the shifters and shifter cable wasn't really that hard. Overall since this is my first bike build I'd say that it's not super challenging but is a lot of fun!
Questions:
1. The thru axle nut I got from peter won't sit inside of the rear derailleur hanger hole.. Does anyone else have this issue? Suggestions for a fix?
2. I'm trying to run my dropper seatpost cable and I'm wondering how others have ran it on the frame. I'd like to run it down the downtube and up the seatpost, but my cable and housing isn't long enough. Do you think I could run it under the top tube and above the rear shock and then up the seat post?
3. The lower arm of the suspension has a hole that appears to be for cable to come out to pull on the front derailleur. I was able to put a ferrule underneath, but the upper hole is smaller and looks like it was designed to be open? I'm worried that the cable will wear on that carbon around the hole a lot. Anyone else seen this before?
Pictures below
(http://i.imgur.com/OgcYF5yl.jpg)
Progress...
(http://i.imgur.com/owwJ4KXl.jpg)
Dropper seatpost cable routing?
(http://i.imgur.com/CclgW4Sl.jpg)
Front derailleur cable rubbing on carbon?
(http://i.imgur.com/191jdCxl.jpg)
Issue with the nut for the thru axle.
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Yesterday I got basically as far as I could without the wheels. I answered 2 of my own questions in the process. The thru axle nut will now be mounted in the dropout with the hex end out. I find it strange that there is a set screw for this... I might try to mill a little pocket for it onto that threaded end. I know a lot of people have had issues with the axle before, so I'll give it a shot for now but it might get replaced anyways. I ended up running to a (different) bike shop in town to buy bulk cable and housing to run the dropper post line along the downtube. That route worked fine, but I did run into an issues with the Jagwire stick on housings. I cleaned the surface with alcohol and tried to apply the adhesive, but it was very weak. I stuck them on the best I could then wrapped electrical tape around the housings and frame to hopefully adhere for the next few days. If that doesn't work I might need to come up with some alternate method of mounting.
Regarding the front derailleur.. When I originally was browsing through these threads I found people calling for a S3 Direct mount. All you 036 builders who plan on using a front derailleur it's an S3 Direct mount bottom pull. To my defense the person I purchased it from never specified what it was for, so lesson learned. No big deal really. Just another $10 and a little more time before I can ride.
I'll post another update this weekend hopefully after my wheels arrive. I'm pretty excited to see these rims without holes!
-Midewest
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Yes my through axle nut fits in the space. Its not deeply recessed so to speak but sits in fine. I puchased the through axle from Peter.
Yes I have seen others run the dropper post cable past the rear shock and up. There is a photo in this thread somewhere of it
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/dual-suspension-chinese-carbon-29er-737952.html
I ran mine out of the exit hole near left side of crank and then up the down post using cable ties and a cable guide provided with the dropper purchase. You will need a long cable for this though (default length just long enough with a small frame)
I have a single chain ring setup so cant help with the derailler.
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Thanks Kaiser, I appreciate the response! Most stuff is sorted out now! Now I'm trying to price out a Twin Loc lever system. Does anyone have any favorite ways to mount cables to their Chiner frames? I want to run two cables along my downtube and as I noted above the Jagwire stick on housing guides sucked. I'd like to avoid zip ties if possible, but that might be my only solution. Anyone have opinions on just zipping the two cables together so they run parallel?
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Looked everywhere for a 2 wire - one sheath solution but no good. I think you are going to zip tie them together.
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Looks really nice. I like the UD Matt finish. From the pictures I can't see anything wrong.
I don't recommend to lock the fork and shock with one lever (if I understand what you want). You will find that most of the time you want to lock the shock but not the fork. So I would not go with a solution that always locks both. Fork probably does not need a lock out at all if set properly.
Cables along the downtube: I haven't found anything better then the stick-on Jagwire. Not perfect but pretty good looking on a black frame. I use it for my Reverb dropper-post. I'd be interested if you ever find a better solution.
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Thanks for the input SportingGoods. Out of curiosity what sort of setting do you leave your fork on for riding? My fox fork has the CTD technology and I guess I wonder if the trail setting is really adaptive enough to not switch between climb and descend. I know CarbonDude really liked his TwinLoc setup, but maybe I should give my 036 a couple rides before investing another $80 into a remote system.
Did your Jagwire stick-on's work well with your carbon frame? Mine seemed to hold for a minute and then fall off.
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My fork is very different. It is a RockShox Reba. I set it so that I use most of it but never bottom out. I rarely lock it out, even though I have a remote. And I always forget to unlock it when I do :D
The Jagwire stick-on last me about 12 month. They would last longer but I have to flatten them (they are rounded) to get them onto the flat area of my frame where I need them. This flattening process is not good for them :)
You have to shape them to the curvature of your frame to get stick
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For those of you with front derailleurs or any experience with direct mounts: The 036 mounting bolts for the front derailleur come with 3 washers. One bolt has two on it and the other only has one. Where do these belong? Under the bolt head? Below the actual front derailleur mount? Not at all? I'll mess with it to see what gets me the best chain line, but some input would be nice.
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Unfortunately this weekend my wheels were still stuck in customs... Being a little OCD about my build and anxious to keep working I decided to pull apart my brakes to free some stuck pistons. It actually was pretty easy to do and really was only frustrating when it came to freeing the pistons from the caliper halves. They were pretty dirty, so I lubed them up with some DOT 5.1 fluid and reinstalled and bled. Seems like I'm getting a lot more substantial piston actuation now.
Another thing bothering me is the way that my two cables are running down my downtube. Being a slow day at work, I decided to take a crack at solving that with a little bit of design work. I modeled up a little housing that would get zip tied into the single cable mount and allow me to run two cables side by side. Not sure if my parts will be the right size at all as I really only guessed looking at some pictures I took, but I figured it was worth a shot.
(http://i.imgur.com/LQv3Vusl.jpg)
A little of sanding...
(http://i.imgur.com/QMmbf7bl.jpg)
Matte black to match the frame
(http://i.imgur.com/3Gs3wdLl.jpg)
An image from this weekend
I'll try the housings out tomorrow!
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So I was able to test out my 3D printed housings today and overall I'm pretty happy! Without taking any measurements or other prototypes I think they turned out really well. They could hug a little closer to the frame, but maybe I'll print some replacements in a few weeks. The adapter gets zip-tied into the installed cable guides, then the cables are zipped to the adapters sides. 3 zip ties per mount.. Not weight weenie friendly ;) (If you want the STL or SolidWorks file of the guide PM me)
I also took some time today to figure out what the vinyl finish on my chiner would eventually look like. I used Peters supplied geometry to develop some to scale drawings in Adobe Illustrator. Once I had drawn out a set of shapes I liked I threw them into Photoshop and painted what I thought it could look like. The material basically appears to change colors depending on the angle you view it at. Being on black carbon, it actually sort of mutes the range of colors that it can hit. I know that it isn't for everybody, but I think it looks pretty cool. The material is a film made by 3M called "Dichroic Blaze Multi-Color". I have a couple feet of it laying around so once I get access to a vinyl cutter again I'll do some cutting and get it applied. It might not be till mid September though.
Enjoy the pics.
(http://i.imgur.com/wJIgl04l.jpg)
Dual cable adapter
(http://i.imgur.com/mGKFeLil.jpg)
Dual cable adapter
(http://i.imgur.com/CZ8YI3Zl.jpg)
Nice and clean routing! :D
(http://i.imgur.com/LF4A6Yil.jpg)
What I think my frame could look like with the Dichroic material... :D
(http://i.imgur.com/Abzk6uSl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bc7sTVfl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/h6B3lJfl.jpg)
You can see the variety of colors that the material can appear as. I think it looks really good.
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So it's been a number of weeks since I've updated this thread, but I did finish my build about a month ago. I got back from vacation and immediately went to the post office to pick up my carbon wheels I had Peter build up for me. They looked really great and were extremely light. I opted to go with the FHR930C rim without spoke holes to make going tubeless easier. I mounted my brake rotors and valve stems and put the tire on. It was easy to get the bead set with an air compressor, and the trucker co tire sealant seemed to seal them right up. Overall getting both wheels tubeless was probably under an hour. I mounted the wheels and they looked to be true right from the factory. I spent the rest of the day messing with brakes and shifting until I was satisfied. It took about 2 rides to get everything shifting and braking the way I wanted.
Ride impressions: Wow. This bike is quick! Climbing, cornering and descending are way fast. After a few rides locally, I took the bike for the real test up to Copper Harbor Michigan. It's some of the best mountain biking in the midwest and is a silver rated trail system by IMBA. I rode the bike on a huge variety of trails when I was up there. Rocky, flowing, steep and even some smaller jumps. The bike performed flawlessly. Except for one mistake I made.
I forgot to check my air pressure before I started riding and on my first trail I heard a loud pop from the rear tire. Instantly I knew something had broken. I checked the rear wheel and found this.
(http://i.imgur.com/F5y3mCrl.jpg)
Pretty frustrating, but I decided I would take it easy and keep riding since the tire was holding air and staying true. I got it down, pumped them up to 30 PSI and kept riding. At first I was really worried that the whole wheel would just explode underneath me, but the more I rode, the more confident I was in the rim. In all I rode the damaged rim for 2 more days and just as hard as a rim in good condition. I figured that If I was going to replace it anyways I might as well get the life out of it I could. That happened about 2 weeks ago and now I have a new rim that should be arriving to my house this weekend. I'll lace the wheel and take it to a local shop for tightening and truing.
In the meantime I purchased the 54T hub upgrade for my DT Swiss 350's. It's probably one of the best upgrades you can have in addition to a dropper seatpost. Having my engagement angle changed to 6.6 degrees makes a huge difference when I'm in technical terrain. It's expensive at $100, but if you ride aggressively it needs to be on your list. Swapping out the ratchet was simple and I didn't even remove my cassette. It's a fair bit louder, but not nearly as loud as some of the other hubs I heard when I was biking in copper harbor.
Needless to say, everything I bought from Peter has exceeded my expectations. I'll continue to buy Chinese parts until I find a very compelling reason to stop. This weekend I'll post photos of the rim once I take it apart. I'm curious to see just how far this crack extends.
(http://i.imgur.com/DOYqQz7l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QLQxV1Vl.jpg)
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If the crack is only outside, I would try to patch it with a couple of layers of carbon cloth and epoxy, going up to the inner side, just before the bed of the tire touches the rim.
Interesting, I didn't know there was a 54T upgrade.
But... woah...$100+ that's quite expensive for two big "washers".
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It's been a number of weeks since my last update so I thought I'd let you all know where things are with my 036.
(http://i.imgur.com/70QKYtYl.jpg)
Damage Assessment
(http://i.imgur.com/M6Hmsz3l.jpg)
Damage Assessment
(http://i.imgur.com/eXqGkj8l.jpg)
Damage Assessment
First! This is the crack on my rear rim. I'd like to give Peter kudos for providing me with a product that even when I damaged it held up to a brutal beating. This rim held true and didn't get worse with even a few weeks for riding. Nevertheless, I hated feeling like my rear wheel could explode at any minute so I bought a new one.I got my replacement rim and new red nipples from Peter very quickly and packed professionally. I can't recommend him enough! I was lucky to have the correct spoke wrench laying around at home, so I got to work disassembling the cracked rim. It didn't take that long to disassemble, but since these are the spoke hole free rims I did need to take care when removing the nipples, so that they didn't get stuck in the rim channel. I bought a super strong magnet off of Amazon and that made moving them around really easy. Lacing the wheel wasn't that hard either, more just tedious and time consuming. Since the spoke nipples are aluminum I had to use a tiny piece of a spoke that I had cut and thread it into the nipple to move it into position. I didn't tension the wheels or true them, I thought taking them to a local shop would be faster. Boy was I wrong! The shop had no idea what they were doing with these type of rims. The first time I picked them up and mounted them to my bike, the front wheel was egg shaped and the rear wheel was dished so hard it was rubbing on the left chainstay. It took them over 2 weeks to get them done correctly for me. I was not so happy about that. I'm now planning on buying the tools needed for wheel work! 8)
(http://i.imgur.com/wvWRzwKl.jpg)
Vinyl cut and ready to apply
(http://i.imgur.com/LyFpp3sl.jpg)
Vinyl cut and ready to apply
After that was all together I shortened a brake line, applied my vinyl and took it out! The 036 is so fun to ride. I'm so happy with how my build turned out. It's definitely pleasing to ride something and know basically everything that's been done to it.
(http://i.imgur.com/fq484wel.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1CmpkM2l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BYC5kHDl.jpg)
Future work:
I've ordered some longer valve stems. I really underestimated how different the rim profile would be on these rims.
I'm considering going from a 90mm stem to a 50 or 60mm stem. I feel like my arms are stretched a little too much when I ride. I've adjusted the seat position, but I feel like the better answer would be a different stem
I found a carbon repair shop that's not super far away, but I'm really not sure if this type of a crack can be fixed. I'll have to get a quote and send some images his way.
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Vinyl looks sick! Great job!
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wow... what an amazing look!
Too bad for your wheel, some details on how this happened?
Were you tubeless and it kept the air?
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Wow as well :)
Vinyl is really cool. You don't seem to get any clear coat on top. You are not afraid it will be damaged prematurely? That said, I'm not sure what kind of clear coat you could apply considering that the frame is matt. A glossy coat would not fit.
Anyone has an idea on this?
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@Carbonazza: So the damage to the wheel.. I took my bike to some pretty aggressive trails after a week with no use and started hitting it hard right away. I neglected to realize that during the week the rear tire had actually lost a lot of air pressure. Going through some small jumps and rock gardens was just too much. the rear wheel came down hard and I heard it snap. The tire just couldn't hold up to that direct of a hit with low pressure. The tubeless worked fine and all was well.
@SportingGoods: I don't have a clear coat on. I know that it will get damaged and I've kind of accepted that.. I'm going to cut out a few more decal sheets to replace worn ones in the future. I'm also considering pulling everything off and putting a coat of matte black automotive paint on the frame. The unfinished layup would be better looking in 3k vs the UD.
So I've been riding for a few months now, and this bike kicks ass. I know it's not the latest and greatest technology, but this is enough bike for what I want right now. Everyone asks about it and when I tell them the price of it their shocked. I've had a few people turn their nose up to the "chinese" part of it, but I don't care. This bike has gone through everything I expect a normal branded bike to go through. Plus by building one I have all the tools and expertise to now service this bike and other bikes like it. Overall a really great experience. I would highly recommend this bike and the aspect of building your own to anyone.
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Man, your garage is waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too clean, LOL!
I need to sell some stuff and make room for more bikes... 8)
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Haha :D Yeah it stays pretty clean... Until I have to work on the bikes then It looks way different!
Speaking of new bikes... 8) picked this baby up a few weeks ago for a price I couldn't pass up. Was thinking about building a chiner tri bike, but I couldn't get anywhere near the price that I paid for this. Now I have something to ride when the trails are too wet! But.. When my wallet allows, a deep dish chinese wheel set will have a home on her.
(http://i.imgur.com/uphhSial.jpg)
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How is the flex in the 036? Does it feel stiff climbing?
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This being my second full suspension bike and without much experience with them before, I'd say that I don't feel any flex when I ride it. When I have it in a work stand and try to shift the rear triangle from side to side I have very little play. It could be I got lucky with my frame, but I also tore the whole thing apart before building to grease and re-torque the suspension bolts. It's worth noting that my friend who has the 2016 Trek Remedy rode it this summer on some pretty challenging terrain. He didn't mention anything about the stiffness at all. So no, I don't feel any flex in my rear triangle when I ride. When I lock out the rear suspension and climb it really is awesome. Not quite a hardtail, but definitely a vast improvement from my previous FS bike.
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It's been awhile since I updated this thread, but I feel like it's worthy now that I've installed a 140mm fork. I've only had it out on one ride so far, but I'll update this once I have a better idea of the changes it makes!
(http://i.imgur.com/fPOEudnl.jpg)
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Do you still have the cracked rim? By looking at the damage, I would say it's repairable at least enough to have laced up in a cheap hub as a backup. A good carbon repair kit will run you less than $50.
Might be worth taking a stab at.
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I do still have it. Currently it's just hanging in my garage. There's a guy who repairs carbon in Minneapolis and I've been thinking about taking the rim to him for a quote. To be honest though I'm not sure if I was to buy rims again if I would go for ones without spoke holes. I laced my wheels and took them to a local shop for tensioning and truing and the work really sucked. I had to take it back in to get it done right. I think they're just more difficult to work with. Oh well though! They're doing fantastic besides me being an idiot and riding at low pressure.