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Re: Interesting Aliexpress finds! - good deals, interesting stuff, new products etc!
The 2nd iteration Racework crankset is also the same design as the Riro crankset. It's an improvement over the previous design, but I did have problems installing it on non-Shimano bottom brackets. It would seize up before fully locking down. It works fine on both Shimano Ultegra PF and threaded BSA bottom brackets, but I had issues installing it on my threaded PF BB that was non-Shimano. I'm guessing it might be a difference in bearing size that's causing an issue? This 29mm axle version looks interesting for the 3rd design iteration. I'm guessing it locks in from the non-drive side with a built-in locking screw. I wonder if they'll use this design for the 24mm axle version? May 05, 2024, 10:53:23 AM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
I am guessing that the domestic market price is probably realistic for making and selling higher end frames right now. I doubt anyone is making a ton of money here, but they are all taking their piece. The result might be that high end catalog frames like these don't make a ton of sense, and these brands might as well raise the price a couple hundred USD and do the full development, like the Seka Spear RDC which isnt that much cheaper than the European price for the Van Rysel RCR Pro frameset. May 06, 2024, 08:57:53 AM |
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Re: Yuanan Carbon fiber wheelsets Year end discount promotion
Perfect, love talking about rim design. My ideal wheelset: Let start with the general shape of the rim profiles. Elilptical like the scope rims in the attachment. This is critical in the front rim. This profile provides a great balance of speed and stability and is used by dt swiss/swiss side who make very fast wheels as well as specialised on their very fast roval rapide clx II, though scope claim theirs are even faster. The idea is that the cross section of the tire and rim combined forms an ellipse. It works well both when the airflow hits it for the first time and the tire is the leading edge and rim the trailing edge and when it hits it a second time when the rim is the leading edge and the tire the trailing edge. A V shape does the first well, but absolutelly terrible at the second. Hubs and spokes: Obviously deep aero carbon spokes. The hub interface should be something similar to farsports, scope, crw, etc. Basically replicating a regular straight pull hub but with carbon spokes. This is safer because the spokes wont pop out in case of rapid tension loss, lighter and smaller so more aero. H-works make great hubs like these and aparently dt swiss are moving into this area as well. The spoke to rim interface should have an external nipple like the new superteam wheels, so its possible to true the wheel from the outside with a mounted tire. This makes servicing easier and allows you to true more accurately. It also means you don't need spoke access holes in the rim bed so no need for rim tape. Ideally you would have as much of the nipple still hidden, showing just enough to be able to work on them. Front wheel: 50-55 mm deep, from the development white papers I've seen, 50 mm is around when a wheel can start taking advantage of the sailing effect at higher yaws. 21-22 mm internal width and 30-31 mm external width at the rim edge. That way you can put 25 or 28c tires on without them balooning beyond their labeled size and they will stay narrower than the rim giving the best chance to form the aforementioned ellipse. As low a spoke count as is feasible to reduce weight and improve aerodynamics. Stiffness isn't as critical in the front as it is in the back. Rear wheel: 60-70 mm deep, 24mm internal width and 34-35 mm external width. This one is way wider because the air is so messed up by the time it gets to the rear tire that width matters a lot less for aerodynamics as their biggest impact is when providing a sailing thrust effect in crosswinds. Therefore we can mount a wider tire for improved comfort, rolling resistance and puncture protection. Elliptical shape is probably still ideal but less critical as the first time air will hit the tire is at the seat tube where airflow is all kinds of messed up, so optimising the design for when the air hits it the second time could be more beneficial. Tire should still be notably narrower than the rim. Spoke count should be higher, probably 20-24 spokes. Ratchet hubs with dt swiss compatible internals. Obviously everything should be as light as possible  Edit: also no wavy rims, their only benefit is better cross wind stability by reducing the stall angle of the wheel i.e. the airflow is so messed up that it doesn't even push the rim anymore, meaning you lose the sailing effect. This is unneccessay with good eliptical profiles because they can enable the flow to have a smooth transition from one side to the other. May 07, 2024, 05:30:07 AM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
The 3rd video of China Cycling on the Shanghai show says that Tavelo is a very frothy brand in China, with a huge social media following, sponsored teams and so on. So that must command a significant price premium, even if that's completely invisible to the west.
May 07, 2024, 10:18:53 AM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
The chris miller podcast from a day or 2 ago was interesting, giving the perspective of experienced racers with regards to expensive chinese brands with western backed aero claims. Among other things, the old "if it's expensive it's got to be good" was mentioned, and as cringe as it may be to some, it often rings true to many, and that's how some brands manage to command a premium for no tangible / dubious reason(s).
May 09, 2024, 08:23:29 AM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
The overwhelming majority of frames I've been able to review were paid for out of pocket. At full price. I would love to review the new SEKA Spear or Tavelo Arow, but the price point is difficult no matter how excited I am for both of them. I've actually been saving up to purchase one of these frames or the Bross Zenith. However, earlier this week I was offered a deal on an SL8 Pro (non S-Works) frameset. It wasn't a huge discount, but enough to sway me away from Tavelo/Seka/Bross. And this is the conundrum I see customers facing. Spend a little more to get local bike shop support and a western brand warranty. May 09, 2024, 09:43:06 AM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
Actually I must apologise, I misunderstood what tavelo is and can understand their prices now. They're not a bike company, they're a marketing company selling bikes, it's like specialized on steroids. They charge this much because they can. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what the value proposition product is if it sells. I really don't get what the hand-wringing is over the markup. They are charging what they think the market will bear for the perceived quality and service. I've bought a Lightcarbon LCG071 and a Seka Exceed; the Seka Exceed cost me around 3x more and frankly I think I got my money's worth with the Exceed. The finishing kit on a Seka is much nicer, and every part included is far-superior quality spec. They replaced my whole damn frame (and even painted a new frame just for me with an out-of-production color) at no extra cost after I discovered an issue with it over 6 months after buying it. It's just a much nicer bike with much better after-sales service than what I'd ever expect from Velobuild or Lightcarbon. I absolutely think that a company that essentially exists to retail, market, paint, and (hopefully) QC frames can add enough value to justify a markup like this, and I also think that if PP adds enough value through after-sales service, then their markup is justified too. (note: I still haven't seen evidence that they really do enhance the after-sales service) The calculus here is easy: is the added risk/hassle of going through a Chinese company worth the cost-savings when compared to buying an equivalent-spec frame locally? Different people will make either decision depending on their circumstances, and hopefully PP and Tavelo have found a price and level of service that adequately suits the needs of many people making this decision. May 10, 2024, 10:34:54 AM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
Actually I must apologise, I misunderstood what tavelo is and can understand their prices now. They're not a bike company, they're a marketing company selling bikes, it's like specialized on steroids. They charge this much because they can. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what the value proposition product is if it sells.I think this is overly cynical. Ultimately, all carbon road bikes are luxury goods. Even the cheapest Tiagra build. So there is some form of "value", but it's not the typical add up all the components on a spreadsheet and divide by $. A lot of it is intangible. The big selling point for Western brands IMO is pro Peleton credibility. If your bike is in the TdF or other big pro races, it's legit and the sky is the limit on pricing. Unless I'm mistaken, that's exactly how Giant and Canyon went from run of the mill OEMs to premium bike sellers. In fact the only big Western brand I can think of that isn't in the pro circuit is Factor. So IMO all brands like SEKA and Tavelo need to do to legitimize their brands is get in the pro circuit. They don't even have to be that good. Personally IDGAF about pro cycling nor would I pay more for a bike on TV. But someone could easily come up with reasons why even a cheap Aliexpress build is a waste of money. May 10, 2024, 10:45:34 AM |
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Deerobust/Goldix wheel build 50/55mm 1319g
I wanted to share with you all the results of my first wheelbuild. The headline specs/stats are:
I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. I've been busy finishing my PhD and finally had the time to cobble it together. Theres some more build info I want to add in a later post but I'll put this up for now. I had recently bought myself a truing stand and tensionmeter to rebuild a wheel with a rim that I broke racing CX. Now having the tools to build wheels, I got curious about the phenomenally low prices on wheelbuilding components, as well as the freedom to pursue interesting build configurations. I'll be transparent here: this is a vanity build driven by questionable weight and aero-weenie-ing. Experienced wheelbuilders will probably cringe at my choices, and that's fine with me. The irony of scraping for grams on this build while I could stand to lose 20lbs of body fat is not lost on me. At the end of the day I had a lot of fun building these up, I think they look super cool, it's exciting to me that I've built up such a lightweight wheelset, and I've had a pretty good experience riding them so far. Given this premise of vanity over practicality, I hope you can appreciate my wheelbuild for what it is. Rims: I did a bit of searching for the manufacturer of the lightest rims and landed on Deerobust. It helps that they are the first result when you search "lightest carbon rim" into aliex. This is no exaggeration, the 21mm-internal-width, 50 and 55mm-deep rims I chose ("featherweight"-spec + paintless finish) were quoted at 390g and 420g respectively; the only manufacturer that seems to come close is Lightcarbon. I chose 50/55 simply because it's a depth that seemed to strike a good balance between weight and aero. I also won't lie and say that the decision was influenced by the fact that the Enve SES 4.5 rims used by Pogi and UAE are 50/55mm deep, even though if we're being realistic those are completely different wheels. I chose 21mm internal width because it seems that this is still the ideal rim width for aero given a 28mm tire. I understand the rule of 105% says otherwise. On the other hand, Peak-torque's testing results (particularly the comparison of the Polaris Ascent 42 against the ICAN Aero 35 across 28mm and 32mm tires) suggests that a 28mm tire is faster on a 21mm internal width rim compared a wider one. Another feature I chose for my rims is internally-drilled spoke holes. For one, there is the (dubious) aero benefit of having hidden nipples. But more importantly--as ENVE's marketing material points out--smaller spoke holes means stronger spoke holes, and therefore a stronger, safer rim. I paid $507 (inc. shipping) to order my rims from Deerobust, with bespoke paintless finish, hole-drilling, and logo. The rims weighed 410 and 415g respectively. I was a tad disappointed that my front rim came 5g over the spec weight +/- 15g margin of error. On the other hand, my rear rim came 5g under spec weight, the average weight between the two was under the +/- 15g per rim margin of error, so I called it good and decided to not complain. Hubs As for hubs, I chose GOLDIX 21-spoke hubs with 2:1 lacing. These have no official model number but appear to be a DT-swiss style ratchet hub with straight-pull lacing. I chose these because a) Goldix seems to have a fairly decent reputation on here, and b) these hubs are very lightweight. The standout unique design feature of these hubs is that there are 21 spokes, 14 spokes laced in a 3x pattern on the stressed side (drive side on rear, brake side on front), and 7 radially-laced spokes on the non-drive side. I went for this unusual design because fewer spokes theoretically means lighter and more aero, while the 2:1 3x lacing, especially when paired to such deep rims, potentially could make up for the loss in stiffness. Remember, this is a vanity build. When my hubs arrived, they seemed to be of decent quality. The bearings were a tad notchy--something that has gone away since I started riding them. The bearings are "NBK" brand, and have metal ball cages, which are a feature of decent-quality bearings. These aren't showstoppers, but they aren't complete garbage either. One criticism I have about these hubs is that that to achieve radial lacing on the non-stressed side, the hub axle has a hole drilled out to allow a spoke to be passed through into the back of the spoke hole. This means that the wheel bearing on the radially laced side is offset inboards an entire centimeter. This is bad for hub stiffness and longevity. The further inboards the bearing sits, the longer the unsupported section of the axle is (making less stiff), and the bearing has to bear more axial/side loading (which harms longevity). In the future I might swap these hubs out for a different design. Spokes and nipples For this build I chose Pillar Wing 20 with Pillar hex-10 internal nipples. I have a whole extra story to tell about these nipples that I will get to another time. I chose these spokes over the alternative (Sapim CX Ray/DT aerolite) because they are supposedly stiffer, lighter, just as aero, and definitely are cheaper. The idea that a wider spoke section is just as aero as a narrower one baffles me, but I'll trust in Campagnolo and Boyd, who have supposedly tested this difference and chose the Pillar wings. I also spoke-prepped my threads using Rock n Roll Nipple cream. Finishing touches As is common, I have wrapped my wheels in 28mm Continental GP5000 clincher tires, with RideNow 19gr tubes inside, likely the lightest and lowest-rolling-resistance combo in the Continental range, barring the GP5000TT. I'm also running ONIRII's super-light 160mm floating disc rotors, and an S-ROAD one-piece 11-32 cassette Overall impressions So far I've logged about 100 miles on these new wheels on my road bike. They certainly sound cool and feel fast. And they do not feel like they're particularly lacking in stiffness. One major complaint I am experiencing is that my freehub ratchet has been slipping occasionally. I serviced it and found that I had reinstalled the o-ring incorrectly and that some dirt/grime had made its way into the ratchet. After a bit of cleaning and regreaseing it was nearly perfect once again, perhaps I need to clean it more and regrease with the special DT swiss ratchet grease. Are these truly "fast" wheels? Who knows. They haven't stopped me from setting a bunch of Strava PRs here and there. But as far as bling factor, these are 10/10, super cool and super fun wheels to have. Thanks for reading my wheelbuild story. Would love to hear your thoughts and questions. Hopefully soon, I can make a quick post about how I dealt with some challenges I experienced using the Hex-10 nipples. May 15, 2024, 03:30:12 PM |
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Re: Deerobust/Goldix wheel build 50/55mm 1319g
Hey Sebastian, thanks for the notes and kind feedback! Quote If this really is your first ever wheelbuild then you chose something with quite the steep learning curve I've rebuilt 2 wheels in the past to replace carbon rims broken in racing incidents. Not sure if that counts! Definitely was my first time speccing out a full build and calculating spoke lengths, I think half the fun was playing around with spreadsheets and fantasizing about different builds. I definitely agree with you that the decisions to go for 21-spokes and internal nipples are the most disagreeable and impractical choices I made. I've already had to strip my rear wheel to re-tension and true after the first 100k, and the front wheel will be next soon. No doubt a PITA, one I knowingly signed up for. I appreciate your notes on spoke hole sizes as well, good to hear a more experienced perspective on this idea. I also appreciate your notes on the 2:1 lacing; The decision to go for the 21-spoke build felt like a risk. At the back of my mind I still worry that I am subjecting the rear rim to bad stresses via the radially laced spokes on the disc-side. Will it be worth the 29 grams, and indeterminable, marginal CdA that I saved? Only time will tell, I suppose. Quote Ever since disc brakes, both side's spokes had to move inboard and the difference in spoke angle and tension isn't as bad as it used to be. So the advantage of 2:1 isn't really as big as it used to be. Something I noticed is that on the rear wheel, I have pretty much dead-even spoke tension across both sides. In my mind this seems desirable, no? Obviously since I'm new to this, I could be overlooking something or overstating the importance of this. On that note, something I do not like about these hubs is that on the front wheel, the radially-laced side achieve significantly higher tension than the crossed spokes. The idea that a minority of the spokes on a wheel are at a higher tension than the majority does not sit well with me, especially on a design that is supposed to "balance" spoke tensions. In retrospect, I agree that an asymmetric rim is probably the better way to do it, the asymmetric rims on my ICAN Aero 35s does a much better job balancing spoke tensions on the front wheel. Anyways, I definitely learned a lot from the experience of building these wheels. I think next I'll build up some gravel wheels, and stick to a more traditional build  May 16, 2024, 10:41:30 AM |
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