I rode a Cannondale Quick and Trek FX yesterday, both in a size large, and both have much too short of a reach for me.  Thinking about my position on the hoods of my road bike today, I would want the flat bar grips to be a little higher and a little closer.  These bikes have them a LOT closer.  If I size up to XL, then the seat tube is longer than I would like. 

Looking at the Carbonda CFR707 geometry, the XL has the same TT and reach as a Cannondale Quick L, but longer ST, so I can't size up from there at all.

The Specialized Diverge Evo geometry says it's longer than any of the above and the ST on a large is still rideable.  This is the geometry leader so far.

A mountain bike frame still gives me the best options for dialing in fit (as long as the HTA is not too slack).  However, then I can't mount a road double crank.

Polls are setup for a single question with multiple options.  What I want to do is to have a long list of Chinese vendors and people can vote good/bad (or a different, simple scale).  Anyone know an easy way to set that up?  You could spend forever reading this forum or you could consult the cumulative score from the vendor poll.

I am considering the idea of building a flat bar road/gravel bike, but am having trouble with the geometry of my options.  Road/gravel frames have a short reach/TT because the long stem and drop bars lengthen your torso to where it needs to be.  My hoods are 130mm farther out from my stem.  I could make that up through a combination of longer TT, longer stem, and conceding a little distance.  However, the only easy way to get a longer reach is by buying a mountain bike frame.  Ignoring all the minor problems with that, the lack of support for large chainrings is a deal breaker. 

So back to gravel frames.  Something with a sloping top tube and the shortest seat tube...then buy the largest size so I get the longest reach/TT possible.  There isn't anything obvious that makes the math work well.