Hey Pat,

I really value your opinion. What would you recommend for a bike? I'm looking for aero (but not a all costs). Should be an allrounder, but race oriented. Not endurance or comfort. I like the sl7 and the new Cannondale (supersix, not the bulky system six). I normally do group ride around 39km/h average. Solo rides are around 33-35km/h. Mostly flat, but do like the occasional trip to hilly/mountain rides (so weight is not the main concern, but should be heavy).

Going for old school 2x11 (of 2x12) di2 or etap last gen and 45-50mm wheels.

Velobuild 177 is an option, so is the Yinsun R086-D.

What do you recon?

(last criteria: will be building myself, I hate problems like f'd-up c-rings and stuff. Dont want to fiddle around too much)

I really like the Velobuild 177. They offer paint options (unlike Yishun), they've made improvement to their hardware (thanks to this forum), and you have a wealth of knowledge from experienced people in here should you choose to buy one.

As far as wheels I'm a fan of both the Elite Drives and Magene's latest Ultra wheels. In fact there is a forum member in here running a VB-177 and Magene Ultra wheels. Looks sick!

Hey Patty, quick question: How did you manage to add spacers above the VB seperate stem?
Did they include a suitable topcap to run spacers?


I'm a Velobuild frameset with that stem soon and i want to validate my stack height before cutting the steerer to size.

Thanks!!

EDIT: Or did you just put that one Spacer on top of the topcap to evenly spread the compressing force? Meaning that your steerer was already cut to size?
I might have to 3d-print an adapter to run standard spacers above the stem then... probably not a big deal.

Howdy!

I measured and cut the steer tube with the intentions of using a spacer about the separate stem. It does help spread the force evenly, but it was mainly to give myself the option of raising the stem just in case I needed to in the future. This came in handy when I switched to using the FSA no.69 setup, as the headset cap on that is much taller than what's provided from VB.

Hey patliean1,. sorry for too much question, but can you help me understand, I'm really value your opinion, but it's a little bit mystery for me because of language barrier, lack of cycling experience and etc

In the first review you said that x38 is stiff as Dengfu, but in the recent you said that it's not as stiff as Dengfu, but it really shows itself at higher speeds, so I'm confused. So as I understand, do you mean that frame is stiff enough to not loose too much watts while pedaling, but it's not overall suitable for race... Or?

There are some discrepancies/conflicts in what I've said about the frame in the past month. It's one of the reasons the YouTuber "Peak Torque" suggested I be more thorough in my testing before offering up opinions. Or at least be more careful with first impression videos.

A frame does not have to be super stiff to be fast. It's important when sprinting, accelerating, climbing. Not when you are at speed. This is where the Dengfu R12 is better. Keep mind that these differences are only noticeable when pushing the bike to it's limits. Not when you are riding at 20mph/32kph. To be clear, we are talking about very small differences here. So yes the TanTan is stiff, but just not as stiff as the Dengfu.

How a frame handles bad pavement is only really important above 25mph/40kph. The TanTan does not behave as well. Less control and handling when the road is bumpy. It's more bumpy despite not being as stiff as the Dengfu.

Keep in mind that you already have the frame. At this point what I say, good or bad, doesn't really matter if you yourself are enjoying your bike. 

The matte black paint, aero wheels, and my saddle to bar drop really help mask the frame design quirks. I'm going to keep the bike as shown, as I'm almost at my limits mentally this season with tinkering with bikes.

Some notable things:
-The caliper mounts were perfectly faced. First time ever in a sub-$1000 frame. Took me only 10 minutes to align the brakes.

-The supplied bolts for both the saddle clamp and seatpost are robust.
Saddle clamp uses two bolts: a 5mm and 6mm size bolt.
Seatpost clamp foregoes the standard 4mm bolt in favor of a 5mm.

-I ordered a 40cm width separate handlebar. My measurements show 38cm at the hoods (center to center) and flares to 40cm in drops. This is perfect, as I originally requested 38cm bars of which were sold out.

-Fit and finish around the frame from the bottom bracket to the headset cups were practically flawless. Yes I'm aware that paint can easily cover imperfections, however this isn't any different than ordering a painted frame from any brand on the market.

Thanks for the review! I'm curious what you meant by it not being refined. Just kinda loose? Doesn't go where you expect?

Best way to describe the feeling and sensation is think 1990s Japanese tuner sports car versus their modern day stock counterpart.

The Dengfu R12 is sadly no longer in production AFAIK. But email them just to be sure. That would be my vote.

I did not love the VB-168, and still believe the VB-177 is the best road frame VeloBuild makes. Technically it's not aero, but slap some aero wheels on and it will be just as aero 

The frameset arrived today. 6 days total. First impressions are the frameset legitimately looks OEM-quality. Whatever that means. The separate stem I ordered is straight identical to my latest Yoeleo R12, and Yishun also included the Di2 rubber battery seatpost mount. I don't recall any brand under $1000usd providing stuff like that. Also the included plastic headset cover and spacers are of very similar quality to both Yoeleo and Winspace. Caliper mounts (upon quick inspection) are properly faced. Probably the best faced mounts I've seen under $1000.

I can't remember whom in this forum said Yishun/LightCarbon was a step above the other cheap frames, but so far I tend to agree. If you remove the matte black paint, you're basically looking a mostly aero-ish frame around 1000g. The frame kind of has some Pinarello Dogma F elements to it with the funky shapes. The geometry and unboxing makes me excited to dismantle my TanTan x38 (I dont love that frame) so I can get this one going before fall. The only weird quirk is the fork is almost 100g heavier than any other frame I've tested. CX and gravel frames included.

Frame (Size 54): 1114g
Fork: 488g
Seatpost: 238g
Handlebar 40cm Width: 242g
Stem (130mm -10): 182g

Other Frame Weights For Reference
VeloBuild 168 (unpainted): 1005g
VeloBuild 177: 1044g
Dengfu R12 (unpainted): 1112g
TanTan x38 (unpainted): 1148g
Winspace T1500: 1218g
Yoeleo R12: 1344g
2022 Allez Sprint: 1521g

From a bike shop's perspective, perhaps they simply don't want to take on the liability if something goes wrong. And you can't really expect a local shop to constantly be up to date on current bike trends and popularity of open-mold frames now. My main gripe with local shops is their general attitude towards customers. A gentle reminder to vote with your wallet.