Here is my T1500 w/ D67 Hyper Wheels. Over 2 years of use and still probably my favorite bike. Mechanical shifting Ultegra R8020 has been absolutely flawless. Elilee OSPW system...now out of production 

Will this frame clear 32mm wide wheelset or it's too much? I have a wheelset in my mind that's 32mm external width. May be too wide but worth checking if someone tried that.

32c GP5000s on 30mm ext 23mm int wheels fit with plenty of space. The tires measure out to 32.7mm.

Influencers may have the biggest return on investment (tangible sales generated against marketing dollars spent), but probably not for the overall sales of any given brand. Especially for a large OEM factory. Winspace of course is probably one of the only exceptions here. It's an easy method to sell a few extra frames without much marketing effort.

Take VeloBuild for example. What are the overhead/production costs to manufacturer a frameset? Maybe a couple of hundred dollars? So if VeloBuild sends out a "free" frame in exchange for review, and that video review generates even two frameset purchases at full price, VeloBuild is already net positive on their investment. We just don't know how much of VB's sales in it's entirety are driven specifically as a result of influencers.

The whole Chiner Bike gatekeeping is interesting. I've been a huge fan of hip hop since the 1980's, so I understand the feelings of wanting to keep a sub-culture at a grassroots level versus going mainstream globally. This also reminds me of the hipster culture in late 2000s and early 2010s. We want to keep things underground even to the detriment a brand's sustainability. At the end of the day every brand/factory/agent is in the business of making money. With or without the help of influencers.

So I've been making videos for over 3 years now and I live in a large metro city. I'm also very active in the cycling community here. However...I have YET to encounter any Chinese brands in the wild that I've reviewed except for Winspace. A few pairs of Hypers and a single T1500 frameset. Talk about perspective. Granted, the social pressure/marketing here to ride S-Works frames and Pas Normal kits (in my particular demographic of cyclists) is very high. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But no Chinese Bike Dude influencer is going to usurp that.

Sidenote: I've had my eye on Light Bicycle's Falcon WR65 wheels for a couple of months now. 65mm deep, 32mm external, and 25mm internal is such an obnoxious combo that I have to try it for myself. Gonna lace them to DTSwiss 240s.

I can confirm that 32c tires will fit without fear of rubbing. Which is opposite of what I said months ago. Not sure how I messed that up, but perhaps I was using the wrong wheel/tire combo. Using 32c tires with anything less than 23mm internal wheels will most likely cause rubbing since the tires will have more of a bulbous effect. My original test was with 20mm internal wheels.

Wheels: 30mm external, 23mm internal
Tires: Conti GP5000 STR 32c, measures about 32.5mm at the tire

Winspace kept the pricing of their T1500/T1550 essentially the same for 4+ years. Same can't be said for brands like Yishun and Yoeleo. I originally bought my Yoeleo R6 for $850 in Fall 2020 and now their latest R12 cost $1600. So it's not unreasonable for Winspace to inevitably increase their prices. I'm certain the molds/tooling of their new Agile frame also contributes to the price hike. Mind you the quality and fit/finish of Winspace is on par with mid-level frames from the big boys.

This brings me back to my original point earlier. If your budget is $2000 for a frame, can you push for $3000? That gets you a Giant Propel or even a second-hand SL7. The Tavelo Attack is also a fantastic option too.

I’m going to be honest here: I very much miss the glory days of this forum during the pandemic years. It was a perfect storm. People were stuck at home with extra discretionary income and free-time, while major bike brands were dealing with fulfillment delays. The rise of Chinese alternatives during this time brought so much excitement to this forum. Forum members were passionate about helping each other, and the overall vibe felt like a positive community of budget-minded enthusiasts. You could easily spend hours each day reading pages upon pages of new posts. The forum was basically a party everyday. I’m lucky to have joined during COVID.

Now I don’t proclaim to be perfect or infallible to constructive criticism. Quite frankly, the support of this forum is a large reason why my YouTube platform even exists. I cannot thank you all enough. Sadly, a lot of the super experienced members don’t come here as often anymore. Perhaps the negative vibes these past 12 months ran them away or just simply their needs changed. Who knows…

What I do know is I plan to keep supporting the forum as long as it makes sense. I’ve started to review more mainstream bikes, but my heart will always have a place for affordable Chinese frames/wheels. It’s how I got my start (Yoeleo R6).

I wanted to write up a quick guide for anyone looking to jump into the world of “cheap” Chinese bikes. While I made a video on this very topic over a year ago, a reminder never hurt anyone.
PLEASE feel free to add your insight and guidance below.

Step 1: Passion Project vs Functionality
As a cycling reviewer, I obviously don’t have any emotional attachments to my bikes. Except for my believed T1500. To me it’s about being functional and fast. If the “best” frame for (my) price range and riding style only offers matte black…I’ll take it every time. Custom paint means nothing to me if the frame is either a noodle or destroys my back. But I’m a performance-first person.

Step 2: Riding Style and Geometry
Can you slam your stem? Cool for you. Do you prefer an endurance style bike? Also very cool. Geometry is critical obviously. I cannot stress seeking a professional bike fit enough. Or just comparing your current bike to your target bikes using something like Geometry Geeks.

Step 3: Budget vs “True” Budget
If your budget is “only $600” for a frame, ask yourself if an extra $300 will be significant to you a year from now. How about an extra $500? How about two years from now? Buy nice or buy twice. Might be worth spending the extra money if you plan to keep your bike for longer than two years. But be warned: cheap bikes are addicting.

Step 4: What is your “pain” threshold for cheap bikes?
Cheap bikes are cheap bikes for a reason. Sort of. The value-add for these types of bikes is you are willing to put in the work yourself to troubleshoot, should bike build problems arise. If you do however find yourself frustrated, fear not! The forum is here to help. Typically the more you spend, the less potential for problems to arise. Or the brand will be faster to rectify. Unless you’re Yoeleo…

Patty’s Brand Picks

$500 - VeloBuild - Custom paint, decent customer service, and solid provided hardware. Both the VB-177 and CX002 are very solid frames for the price. Won’t be the best performing frames ever, but they are “good enough.” You won’t get dropped from a race or fast group ride due to these frames.

$1000 or less - Yishun/Light Carbon - No question one of the best affordable brands/frames you can buy without spending money on a Winspace. Sadly…paint options and frame availability may be questionable since (Yishun) is setup for B2B. But the quality and performance is all there. Fit and finish is really good, except for the plastic headset dust cover on my particular application.

$1600 or less - Winspace - The T1500 has been talked about to death now for 4 years so there really isn’t anything left to cover. If you have the budget for it…buy it. Proven race bike. Fit and finish on par with the major brands.

Wheel Brand Recognition - Elite Wheels, Winspace, and Magene - All 3 brands are great at what they do.

The main thing these brands all have in common is they offer solid customer service. Each of them secretly lurk these forums, which means they are making an effort to listen to what customers want. Despite the fact Yoeleo makes solid bikes too, their customer service has been awful (again) based on customer feedback sent my way. Unfortunately my dealings with these brands for reviews does not translate to me being able to escalate customer complaints.

Always remember the forum is here to help. There are no stupid questions if you’ve taken a little bit of time to research previous threads and watch a few YouTube videos. The more honest and transparent we all are with our questions, the quicker and meaningful the responses will come. Spend the love!

Seems to be going towards the Yishun here.
Does anyone know if there is a discernable difference regarding the carbon layup/fiber quality/structural quality of the frame (so not the finish)?

If I may ask you...what is it you are really looking to know in regards to both of these frames?

We are all here to help. Questions like these make me believe there is some transparency missing or underlying motive.