I think the assumption that a branded frame is generally higher quality is probably incorrect. The more prominent brands used to hire third-party QC; I suspect they still do. They supposedly have dedicated lines in their factories too, but you won't be getting any of those frames unbranded.

OEM-makes a frame to customer specs, customer usually owns the designs
ODM-designs frame to sell through other brands (more or less in this case), factory owns the design

Most of the reputable factories discussed on this forum are functionally ODMs (despite the posters throwing shade about what an OEM is or isn't; but whatevs we can play loose with definitions). The top OEMs aren't selling low-volume framesets and seem to have no problems kicking out brands that don't meet their expected volumes (see the somewhat nasty divorce between Xiamen Lightweight Composites and Seka and all the leaked Seka Spear RDC stuff that resulted)

If you're talking about something like Quick Pro vs. Carbonda vs. Flybike (are they mainly an OEM or an ODM at this point? but I digress), they are all related companies, so if you get a better price on a Quick Pro with custom paint from Carbonda, I doubt there is any difference in quality.

The Same goes for Tavelo vs. Adapt (ODM who you cant buy direct from as a consumer) vs. a small brand like Oak who sells the same frameset. I highly doubt there is significant extra QC happening from a one or two man bike company.

Thanks; this really helps 

Rightly or wrongly, I lean towards purchasing a frameset from a brand because of the supposed "extra" QC you mentioned. That's why I reached out to the brands/companies listed in the first post, and it seems, contrary to what you stated, that some brands (Elves, Tavelo, Yoeleo) will sell custom-painted and/or logo-less framesets, as indicated in their response e-mails. They've basically stated, "No logo or branding? No problem. Send us the color(s) you want. We'll just a few extra weeks." Others have straight-up said no, and interestingly, upcoming brand evolve (from Elitewheels) told me that while it won't do it now, they'll consider it for the future and to contact them again in a few months.

Perhaps I'm still not fully understanding the different terms, but all I was initially looking for is information on which (Chinese) brands/companies, outside of the ones I already contacted, sell framesets with choose-your-own colors and don't require branding/logos. B2B entities don't matter for obvious reasons. For whatever reasons, some people felt that understanding the term "OEM" was relevant.

To answer your questions:

• The point of this thread is to get answers to the question indicated in the first post.
• By "OEM brands", do you mean companies (Trek, Giant, etc) or do you mean the manufacturers that make frames for these companies? I suppose it doesn't matter, as my first post indicates that I'm open to both.
• If "OEM brands" = manufacturer for a bike company, then yes, I think the chances of lower quality are higher, but that's not what this post is about. That's a separate topic for a separate post, but don't worry; I now see you're the forum police so I'll be sure to check with you before posting anything.

In my pursuit of a relatively obscure-brand/"non-branded" carbon road bike, I'm confirmed with the following companies whether or not they offer custom-painted and/or logo-less framesets:

• Elves - YES
• Evolve - NO
• SEKA - NO
• Tavelo - YES
• Yoeleo - YES

A reply from Winspace is pending. Do you folks know of any others? I'm less open to (but will nevertheless consider) factory-direct (ex. XM Carbon Speed) framesets.

Outside of Giant and Merida, what other Taiwanese (carbon road bike) bike brands are there? I'm drawn to these brands because of their unavailability in North America, and am willing to go through the hassle of getting one of their bikes if it means both having a quality bike and something that no one around me has:

• DARE
• Gusto
• Trigon

Did I miss anything? Not Aster, Axman, or KHS; if anything, their bikes look outdated, and if I'm not wrong, are on the lower-than-entry-level end of the scale.

Without turning this thread into a conversation about pushing things into groins - I did the same thing as your fitter to get my inseam measurement.

Nice build! What frameset is that?
You could look at the goldix casettes; all steel

Thanks! Nothing special - it's a Canyon Endurace CF frameset.

I have no geometry issues with my Canyon Endurace, and have completed multiple 50+ km not-so-comfortable-but-manageable rides on a friend's Canyon Ultimate (both bikes are Canyon's size S). I figure my erratic and infrequent interaction with the Ultimate is a notable factor in my body not fully adapting to a more aggresive position. Maybe that will change when I ride my potentially new Tavelo Arow more frequently.

I've watched all the YouTube videos and read many reviews on the Arow, and I'm almost ready to order one, but I need more feedback: your feedback. I'm 173 cm tall with an 81 cm inseam. I'm struggling with the following factors that are preventing my from clicking that Buy Now button.

• Size 480 or 510 - Compared to the Ultimate, 510 has +1 mm reach and +6 mm stack, vs. the 480's -7 mm reach and -10 mm stack. Maybe 480 is too aggressive/small? With how many spacers does the Arow arrive?
• QC Issues - What common gripes during buildup and/or ownership have your experienced?
• Customer Service - What's your experience with Tavelo's CS? Is it better to order from and deal with Panda Podium?

Finally - is the Arow more of an "all-round" race bike, or an aero (yes, I know, it's called an Arow) bike? While I've not ridden an aero bike before, what I've read about their relatively non-nimble-not-for-the-hills nature makes me shy away from aero bikes in general.

I managed 6.795 kg (and that's with approx. 70 g of RideWrap), largely with the help of a 140 g cassette from ZTTO (SLR Gen 3). I purchased it from ZTTO's AE store, after it told me that the Gen 3 was engineered to have smoother shifting over the Gen 2.

The cassette was stupid light, but my shifting became absolute garbage (Ultegra R8000 groupset with KMC chain). I and two other bike shops continually adjusted the derailleurs and shift cable tension, but it continued to skip gears, not get into the highest/lowest cog, and announce to at least one street block that I was riding by.

I switched back to the Ultegra cassette and the calm after the storm was life-changing. Before I give up on aftermarket cassettes altogether, I thought I'd get your feedback on any positive experience you've had with particular makes/models of lightweight cassettes.

On another note, I'm swearing off ZTTO forever. Besides this cassette, I had purchased some handlebar tape that quickly disintegrated after a mere 2,000 km of fair weather (all sun; no rain) riding.