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Topics - Carbon_Dude

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Component Deals & Selection / Full Suspension Talk
« on: November 30, 2017, 02:11:29 PM »
I was on MTBR in the Spec SJ 6Fattie forum and saw a post about various suspension designs that I thought I'd repost here.

"Oh boy. I'll try to keep this short and simple and probably over-generalized, but if you google anti-squat, you will have the opportunity to go down a rabbit hole from which you need never emerge. I'm sure somebody will jump in to disagree or put a finer point on things, but I can tell you what I was thinking in saying that.

The Stumpjumper suspension is designed with less of an emphasis on inhibiting compression of the shock under pedaling forces than some other suspension designs. In general, modern bikes, are designed such that the force exerted by the chain on the rear triangle counteract the natural tendency of the suspension to compress during acceleration. Earlier designs of many bikes, including the FSR suspension platform used by Specialized, did not do this as well and, thus, significant portions of pedaling energy were wasted on movement of the suspension, rather than on moving the bike forward.

In recent years, the FSR suspension platform used by Specialized and others has been designed to achieve 100% anti-squat (pedaling forces exactly counteract the tendency of suspension to compress) when the bike is near its neutral sag point under rider weight, However, other suspension platforms, like Santa Cruz's VPP and DW Link designs, maintain that 100% anti-squat throughout the upper half of the bike's travel. (In the lower half of the travel, the rider is presumably charging downhill and the suspension absorbing bigger hits, and thus pedaling efficiency is not as big a factor.)

The FSR (as well as single pivot and split pivot) designs have relatively linear falling anti-squat rates, where the pedals offer progressively less resistance to suspension compression, the more the suspension compresses. A falling anti-squat rate results in less efficient pedaling compared to VPP designs (a generalized term including Santa Cruz, DW Link, and others) in situations where the suspension is compressed, such as when pedaling over rough terrain or when standing and mashing on the pedals. On the SJ, the anti-squat falls at a rate that is faster than that of competing bikes, like the Cannondale Bad Habit (a single pivot) and DeVinci Marshall (a split pivot). Thus, there are many bikes that pedal more efficiently than the SJ.

There are trade-offs to this greater efficiency, and in previous versions of suspension designs that emphasized anti-squat, those trade-offs often gave-up a lot in suspension performance. One trade-off for this loss of efficiency is that because pedaling forces do not resist compression of the shock as much, the shock is free to respond to bumps when pedaling, and thus traction is optimized. Also, because pedaling does not resist suspension compression as much, the pedals are less likely to kickback when an obstacle is encountered that forces the shock to compress, as on suspension systems emphasizing anti-squat behavior. The degree to which each of these trade-offs (and others) is an issue varies with the specific design. These trade-offs were much more problematic when anti-squat levels much greater than 100% were incorporated into some suspension designs, but there are definitely characteristics of each design that annoy or appeal to different people riding different terrain.

The way that I perceive these differences is that the FSR suspension is more plush and responsive and, in some cases, provides better traction than some of the VPP designs. The advantages of the FSR platform are diminishing as VPP designs get better, however, while internal shock damping performance has also improved, allowing for the inefficiencies of the FSR and other similarly sensitive platforms to be compensated somewhat. That said, were I to be buying a bike now, I'd likely get something with a more efficient pedaling design, as I prefer the firm pedaling platform and not having to worry about flipping the compression damping mode switch on my shock. YMMV"

From my limited experience with FS bikes, it seemed to me the OP knew at least a bit about what he is talking about.

Component Deals & Selection / How Things Work: Freehub Body
« on: April 20, 2017, 09:23:21 AM »
Some good info on freehub bodies.  You can see why I think DT Swiss makes a good design, especially for the money.  However, if money was not an issue, Chris King hubs are truly amazing and I can see why they are so expensive.

29+ & 27+ / Salsa Deadwood SUS - New 29+ Full Suspension Bike
« on: February 21, 2017, 10:24:53 AM »
29+, Full Suspension Carbon (front triangle), SRAM X01 Eagle, looks like a winner to me.  Although Salsa is asking a high-end price for the high-end build ($5999).  If they cut the price and added some carbon wheels, it would be a much more enticing.  Maybe check back this time next year and see if it goes on sale as a 2017 leftover.

 I still think the industry is (slowly) moving toward plus bikes, nice to see Salsa jump in with a nice offering.

Classifieds / XX1 GXP Carbon Crankset $275 (includes shipping)
« on: January 15, 2017, 04:05:58 PM »
I was saving these for another build but at the moment, I don't have any plans to build up a new bike so I thought I'd see if another Chinertown member wants them.

Drive side has some very light wear on the outside of the crank arm, non-drive side is new, chainring appears to be in good condition.

GXP Drive Spindle
32T X-sync chainring
Q-factor 168
175mm crank arms

$275 includes shipping and PayPal fees.
PM me if you have any questions.

My wife and I really didn't get anything for each other but we did go on a cruise to the US Virgin islands and spent Christmas at the beach with family in the Florida panhandle.

Classifieds / Complete 29+ Bike Build Kit (Just needs frame) $1200
« on: November 10, 2016, 09:09:33 AM »
My Stache 7 got into a minor accident while it was on the back of my car and had some frame damage.  I settled a claim with my insurance company and purchased a replacement bike but all the parts that were on the Stache 7 are good and I am deciding to either buy a frame and build a second 29+ bike, which I don't need, or selling all the parts for someone else to do the same.

I thought I'd see if anyone on the Chinertown forum is thinking about building a 29+ bike, if so I have all the parts with the exception of a frame that I'd be willing to sell cheap, all you need is to buy a frame.

Here are the list of parts, please note, these parts are only 6 months old, I purchased the bike in April of this year:

-> Manitou Magnum 29+ Fork
-> Stache 9 Wheelset DT Swiss 350 Hubs, Sun-Ringle Mulefut rims, DT Swiss spokes, XD Freehub
-> Trek/Bontrager Chupacabra 29+ Tires
-> Trek/Bontrager Carbon Bars 760mm
-> Trek/Bontrager 70mm Stem
-> Trek/Bontrager Headset
-> Trek/Bontrager Seatpost
-> Trek/Bontrager Evoke Saddle (Titainium Rails)
-> Trek/Bontrager Seat clamp
-> Bontrager Grips
-> SRAM GX 1400 Crankset (new)
-> SRAM XX1 11-spd Trigger Shifter
-> SRAM XX1 11-spd Rear Derailleur
-> SRAM XX1 11-spd Cassette
-> SRAM 11-spd Chain
-> SRAM PF92 Bottom Bracket
-> Shimano M8000 XT Complete Brakeset with IceTech Rotors)

Literally everything you need to build a 29+ bike, you just buy a frame like a CS-496 from Peter.  You'd be saving several hundred dollars in parts and getting everything all at once.  I'm willing to split the shipping costs with the buyer.  PM me for any questions.

This is a great opportunity for someone is is going to build a 29+ bike anyway.
All components have very light wear, no damage, and are in almost new condition. 

I can post pictures of individual parts but for now here is a picture of the bike with all the parts on it so you can get an idea of what the bike with all the components assembled looks like.

29+ & 27+ / New Trek Stache 9.8
« on: November 07, 2016, 06:52:41 AM »
My Trek Stache 7 was damaged a few weeks ago while it was on the rack on my car.  After settling with the insurance company I've upgraded to a Stache 9.8.  Upgrades from the Stache 7 to the Stache 9.8 includes a lot of carbon (frame, wheels, bars, cranks), Rockshox Pike Fork, dropper post, and XO1 drivetrain.  My first ride was yesterday and I have to say the new bike is amazingly good!  The Stache 7 was pretty good but the weight made it climb a little slower, now the Stache 9.8 resolves that by shedding up to 4 lbs off my old bike (the 9.8 weighed around 26 lbs when I picked it up at the LBS).  The downside to the light weight is now it feels more like a race bike, lightweight and fast, but a little less comfortable and a little more rough on the down hills.

As for my old Stache 7, the frame was damaged so I'm talking to Peter about purchasing a CS-496 so I can put all my old parts on it and have a spare 29+ bike.

After The Ride / I Just Noticed...
« on: September 15, 2016, 07:52:23 PM »
My have over 1653 posts, I need to go ride my bike some more.

Component Deals & Selection / Cycling Shoes with BOA closure
« on: September 03, 2016, 09:53:30 AM »
About 3 years ago I found a set of SCOTT MTB shoes with the BOA closure system.  Since then I've really liked the ease of twisting the knob to tighten the shoe and just pulling up on the knob to loosen and take the shoes off.

My current pair have one BOA closure at the top, and two velcro straps.  Here is a picture:

I think my next set of shoes will have all BOA closures. 

Like these from Louis Garneau (

I have posted so much about the Stache 29+ I've forgotten to post some info about my new Specialized bike.  While technically not a Chiner, the carbon frame was made in Taiwan.  I've got about 60 miles on the bike now and can say I've very happy with my choice.  Comparing the build quality of the Specialized to the Trek, I would easily say the Specialized is a much nicer bike.  This makes sense since the MSRP of the SJ 6Fattie is almost double that of the Stache, $4,500 vs $2,499.  However, Specialized is blowing out this model and knocked off $1,400 of the list price to make room for the 2017 models.

The first thing I notice when riding the SJ is the plush ride.  With 150mm suspension up front and 135mm out back, this is easily the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden.  I haven't had a chance to weigh the SJ yet but I'd say it's around 27-28 lbs, just about the same as my Trek Stache.

The next thing I noticed is how much it rides like a regular FS 29er, you wouldn't know the wheels are 27.5", obviously that's due to the plus tires being similar in overall diameter.  The ride is super-smooth, with the larger volume tires working in concert with the suspension.  Like the Stache, the SJ really swallows up the trail in huge bites.  Also like the Stache, the riding position makes you feel as though your CG isn't high on the bike, instead you feel like you are lower than you are.  It's a bike you could ride all day and not get a lot of fatigue.  My last ride was 18 miles and while I was tired, no part of my body felt like it was beat up from the trails.

There is extra grip from the 27.5+ tires but it's not nearly the grip of the 29+ tires.  On the other hand, the rear grip under braking might be a little better given the rear suspension works very well to keep the rear tire in contact with the ground.  The bike tends to squat under hard braking rather than transferring weight off the back wheel like a hardtail might.

Some of the niceties that you get with the SJ is a high quality finish on the frame, much higher stiffness of the rear suspension compared to my -036.  Also with the increased travel over my -036, I can really feel that FSR suspension is working, it's very active, so much so I can leave it in the firmer mode and still get plenty of travel on the trails I ride.  You also get the SWAT storage compartment and multi-tool storage above the shock.  The tool didn't come with the bike, that was another $30, but it's so easy to grab, I find myself doing quick adjustments when I stop and catch my breath from that last big uphill.

Negatives are few.  The bottom bracket is slightly lower than the Stache, possibly a bit lower than the -036 but not by much.  Which is the cause of a few unexpected pedal strikes.  Not terrible by any measure but noticeable.  The seat stays are wide, like the Stache, my calves don't rub them and they are not annoying, but when coasting I feel there is not much clearance between me and the frame.

When riding the 29+ and 27.5+ back to back, I still have to say the Stache is the more playful, fun-to-ride bike, but the SJ is the do-it-all, take-it-anywhere type of bike.

Vendor Discussion & Reviews / Bicycle Companies Selling Chiner Bikes
« on: August 09, 2016, 08:30:00 PM »
I am starting to run across more and more companies selling bikes with the same frames as forum members buy direct from China and build up themselves. 

It's interesting to see, however, some companies make false claims about where the frames come from.  For example, the person from Deep South (not sure if it was the owner) claimed they make their own carbon frames.

Deep South (USA)
Not much of a website with pictures of the Chiner drawings of "their own" frames. They do offer a "Lifetime" warranty although I would guess the lifetime of the company might be shorter than the time you own your bike from them.  Although, since they charge about double for the frame, even if you break one and have it replaced under warranty, they are not out anything.

Lamere Cycles (USA)
At least Lamere is up front that they "import carbon frames and rims directly from the top factories in Asia."  Although notice they say "Asia" and not "China."  Lamere also offers a "lifetime warranty".  They charge about 2-3 times for a CS-036 or a CS-057 frame compared to what Peter charges.  This company has been around for about 3 1/2 years now so at least they have stayed in business for a short while.

Olympia Bikes (Italy)
They seem to carry a variety of bikes, and their website looks very professional.  They don't seem to sell direct but instead appear to have a dealer network.   In a previous thread, someone else commented that they have been around for many years.  They make the CS-M04 look really nice.  They don't say anything about warranty and don't have any dealers in the US.  I would expect their pricing to be similar to other big brands.

Pricepoint (USA)
(Out of Business)
PricePoint was another one, they would sell Sette carbon frames which looked just like the CS-057 but had a 5 year warranty.  Another case where the warranty doesn't do much good if the company is no longer in business.

Pells (Czech Republic)
Nice website.  Above link is to a -036 complete bike.

Kelly's Bikes (Slovakia)
5 Year Warranty.  Website does not show pricing.

Superior Bikes (UK)
They claim, "All key manufacturing processes are implemented internally so that we have the best control over the design, construction, painting, wheel building and assembly of our models."  Which sure sounds like they are saying they manufacture their own bikes.

I will update the top of this thread as we find more online bike company startups selling Chiner frames/bikes direct.

After The Ride / Mountain Biking at the Olympics
« on: August 06, 2016, 08:21:32 AM »

The 2016 Finals in Rio will be raced on August 20th, in the meantime, enjoy some video of previous Olympic mountain bike racing.  Amazing how much the bikes have changed over the years.

2012 London Olympics Men's Finals

2012 London Olympics Women's Finals

2008 Bejing Women's Final

2008 Bejing Women's Final

2004 Athens Men's Race (Russian Language?)
Part 1
Part 2

2004 Athens Women's Race (10min per part)
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

2000 Sydney Men's Race

2000 Sydney Women's Race Highlights

1996 Atlanta Men's Race Highlights - (I've ridden this course on 3 occasions)

1996 Atlanta Women's Race (Just the end)

Classifieds / IP-036/IP-057 Replacement Hangers
« on: August 05, 2016, 01:47:03 PM »
After selling my Chiner bikes I found I still have three sets of spare derailleur hangers that I no longer need.

If anyone in the US wants a spare I will ship one to you $15, or if you want all three $30.

Two of them are two piece designs, one is a one piece design, same thing just a little different.  The two different designs are interchangeable.

29+ & 27+ / Before & After
« on: July 23, 2016, 09:24:28 PM »
I'm sure I will build another Chiner of some sort in the future, but for now I am back on a couple branded bikes again.  I do miss having a bike that I hand selected each and every part but both of my new bikes work really well for the trails I ride.  After selling both my Chinese carbon bikes and getting decent deals on the two new bike, I have been able to minimize the expense buying of two new bikes.  The Trek Stache 7 was discounted 17% off MSRP, and the Specialized was discounted 31% off MSRP.

BEFORE: Chinese Carbon 29ers

AFTER: Specialized Carbon 27.5+ and Trek Stache 29+

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