Author Topic: Welcome to Chinertown - Introduce Yourself!  (Read 51976 times)

Rigid_Bloke

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2014, 08:11:21 PM »
Yeah.. I don't really mind some advertising, I mean.. if I had a website, I'd for damn sure throw up some ads. but mtbr is getting a little ridiculous with it's pop up ads and complete lack of mod involvement.

That said.. I bet they make a killing so, I'm not hatin!

Chinertown Idiot

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2014, 08:28:51 AM »
Everyone wants to get their panties in a bunch over this whole emergence of direct buying Chinese carbon, but I really have no clue why. The name brands that people are defending ALL PRODUCE THEIR FRAMES OUT OF THE US ANYWAYS. Some of these guys act like the Chinese carbon trend is sending jobs overseas or something. Lol... not even close. The outsourcing trend has been a long time coming. If anything, the big name brand manufacturers ARE THE ONES THAT MADE THIS ALL POSSIBLE BY OUTSOURCING THEIR MANUFACTURING IN THE FIRST PLACE. Granted, it wasn't really their fault as they were incentivized to do so via rising costs and taxes here, combined with lots of questionable tax breaks for companies that do choose to outsource. The only people really at risk here are the local bike shops, a few small time manufacturers, and some marketing dollars. Not saying I don't feel for those guys getting hit by the trend, bc I do, just saying that we're not talking about the outsourcing of America's manufacturing base here (long past that unfortunately).. Just a loss in some of our service related businesses, and that the consumer can't be held liable for this.. they are the very end of the chain.

Not trying to get political, but it just cracks me up to see those posts over at mtbr where people are literally verbally attacking people that are interested in these Chinese frames. Are you kidding me? Of course we're interested in them.. it's called economics. The ABSOLUTE LAST person to blame for this trend is the end consumer that is trying to make his dollars go farther in THE EXACT SAME WAY that the big name bike manufacturers are when they outsource their frame production outside of the US. The hypocrisy is absurd.

That said, MTBR is full of local bike shop owners and advertisers. Which is why this forum is needed and will be a success in my opinion. The trend of individual outsourcing will continue just as corporate outsourcing has, and there will have to be a venue for which the information gap is connected.. but there is an absolute conflict of interest over at MTBR and there is really nothing they can do about it. That place is funded by big name companies that undoubtedly do not want to see you skip them and buy a carbon frame direct from the manufacturer for about the SAME PRICE AS THEY PAY FOR IT, yet it is full of users that want a cheap Chinese carbon frame and rims.

Chinertown is pretty smart idea in my opinion.. SN spotted a gap in the market that wasn't being capitalized on and acted on it.. Good for him.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 11:13:44 AM by Chinertown Idiot »

Carbon_Dude

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 10:54:07 AM »
I agree.  Our company outsourced production of our products to Asia about 15 years ago.  All companies want to maximize their profit margins but there is a limit to what consumers will tolerate.  Big US companies no longer take pride in employing US workers, instead they take pride in how they can line their pockets and the pockets of share holders.  US CEO's are paid exorbitant salaries for what?  So they can run to  another company when the one they are running starts loosing money?

The big name bike manufacturers are charging at least 4X the cost for their frames in the retail market.  It's just bonkers.  Free market economics dictate that if there is another company willing to accept a lower profit margin, that company will bring products into the marketplace.  To me I'm seeing a bit of a conspiracy in the bike world, seems all the big name manufactures price their product similarly to their competitors rather than calculating their overhead and reasonable profit margin.

Yes, there is design innovation, testing, warranty, and liability costs that most Asian manufacturers don't have.  However, I don't see much design innovation these days, most FS bikes are either DW-Link or Single Pivot.  There are minor variations on those two designs with the possible exception of the Niner RDO that has been discussed in another thread on this forum.  I've seen videos of Asian companies doing testing, and they offer a similar warranty.  I've seen big name carbon frame warranties anywhere from 2 years to Lifetime, however, that is only to the original owner which I say is total BS!  Are they warrantying just the purchase or their product?  As a long time reader of the forums, I've seen plenty of warranty denials from the big name companies.

That leaves liability, which the Asian suppliers to not need to worry about since they do not have a presence in the US.  It would be very difficult to bring a lawsuit against someone like HongFu, while I'm sure Trek has an extensive legal staff.

So in my opinion it comes down to cost and innovation.  If the big names continue to sell only slightly better products at 4X the price, they will continue to loose market share to the Chendors :).   The big name companies are very lucky that right now the Chendors or only selling frames and not complete bikes.  Imagine what would happen if Dick's sporting goods started selling complete Chinese Direct Carbon 29er bikes for $1,500?  I'm not seeing it yet but I bet it's not too far off.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 11:02:11 AM by Carbon_Dude »
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

manmythlegend

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 03:44:44 PM »
I agree with the sentiments here. IMO its a bit of xenophobia combined with the already present elitism that cycling/mtb has embedded in it. If you were getting the same exact frame from michigan for $600 noone would have an issue. If you were spending $3000 on the frame few would have issue. But someone spending $7000 on there "american" brand bike seeing someone build similar often better for half the price from china!...ooh boy that makes them unhappy.

As someone who deals with snobbery all the time living in NYC people attach there egos to there bikes. Here people are spending over a grand for hideously heavy steel framed custom bikes , or retro fitting rusty frames into trendy fixies almost entirely for fashion and bragging. They'll cover there bikes with stickers etc to not be seen as label buyers. Yet at the end of the day they turn there noses up at trek/giant or "geared" folks...so they just end up just as snobby as the roadies they seem to want to mock.
Bottom line for me these companies outsource to china anyway. I totally respect that they spend a fortune on sponsoring , ads , and RnD. So if they complain thats one thing....but these chiner bashers are the same ones insulting people for shopping at bikesdirect so who cares. Clearly its not about expanding the hobby , or maximizing your fun for them.


As for people importing and selling the full bikes...I believe thats what these guys do




Im not going to lie. If it wasnt for the chance something could snap and Id potentially be liable Id be doing it myself. Unfortunately Im not sure theres a market for that here.





« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 09:43:03 AM by Sitar_Ned »

Carbon_Dude

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 05:59:09 PM »
Welcom manmythlegend, thanks for joining Chinertown!

Interesting video.  Just goes to show that the Chiners continue to be talked about with praise, not just price but ride quality as well.  I was surprised the weight of theirs wasn't even a bit less than 19 lbs with the Lefty Fork and plastic seat.  Mine came in at 19.5 lbs with a conventional fork and WTB seat.  Although, I know my DT Swiss wheels are much lighter than a set of Stans Crest wheels.  The video also gives a lot of kudos to the SRAM Gripshifter, I had one, didn't like it and that's a long post for another topic.

I've seen Lamerecycles post a bit on MTBR but for those of us who have the technical ability to build their own bike, I saw no point in buying one of their builds.  Watching the video, I thought to myself that you don't need to be a Single Speed Champion to build your own awesome bike!

Thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 06:03:18 PM by Carbon_Dude »
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Rigid_Bloke

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2014, 06:06:10 PM »
Does any of you guys know which supplier it is they got that seat from? It's obviously a knock off of the Tioga:



Also, damn, that carbon Lefty continues to be one of the sexiest piece of kit imo.


manmythlegend

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2014, 03:22:04 AM »
Damn those are equally gorgeous as they are painful looking lol.
Id be saving 230 grams but man a chamois is a must on even the lightest of rides.
The tioga gave some people issues with snagging the knockoffs may have same issue or resolved with smoother holes.
Whats everyone's experience with alibaba ? For that price Id give them a whirl on a few easy rides just to see.

MTB2223

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2014, 09:32:20 AM »
I've got the same experience as on eBay. They're doing everything to get a good rating. No problem with aliexpress/alibaba. The only disavantage is the delivery time (to the Netherlands) of minimum four weeks.

This one is even cheaper:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/VERTU-mountain-Road-bike-saddle-city-bicycle-saddle-super-breathable-super-light-bicycle-seat-MTB-parts/1829855963.html?tracelog=ae-app-ios-sharefor-shkmail
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 11:00:51 AM by MTB2223 »

Rigid_Bloke

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2014, 09:41:17 AM »
Thanks fellas!

$10-$20 is about what these little cheap plastic seats SHOULD cost lol.

For that price I will definitely buy one to try out. If I don't like it - No biggie.

Sitar_Ned

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2014, 09:42:34 AM »
Aliexpress and Alibaba are good to go. They are basically like the eBay for China.

luis biker

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2014, 11:32:56 AM »
HELLO, I'M NEW TO THE FORUM I AM FROM SPAIN, I HOPE TO SHARE WITH ALL THE GOOD TIMES FORUM, GREETINGS

Carbon_Dude

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2014, 12:26:24 PM »
Welcome to the forum Luis!
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Sussed.

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2014, 11:57:48 AM »
Just saying hello after signing up !

Came across this forum after googling the hell out of Chinese Carbon 29er !  Seems like this is going to be the place to go after trawling through 300+ page threads on other forums  ::)

After test riding a Whyte and Orange 29er last summer I decided that it 29er was the way forward for me, as I enjoy spannering I thought I would give a self build a go and then it was only a while before I fell down the Chiner rabbit hole !

As a complete novice I have already learnt a lot just from reading about your experiences and have already made some mistakes !

Go easy on me. I'm new  :)

Cheers. 

Carbon_Dude

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Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2014, 01:03:54 PM »
Just saying hello after signing up !

Came across this forum after googling the hell out of Chinese Carbon 29er !  Seems like this is going to be the place to go after trawling through 300+ page threads on other forums  ::)

After test riding a Whyte and Orange 29er last summer I decided that it 29er was the way forward for me, as I enjoy spannering I thought I would give a self build a go and then it was only a while before I fell down the Chiner rabbit hole !

As a complete novice I have already learnt a lot just from reading about your experiences and have already made some mistakes !

Go easy on me. I'm new  :)

Cheers.

Welcome Sussed!  Since you are from the UK, cheers and tally ho! :)

 Just let know know if you have any questions.
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA