Author Topic: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame  (Read 265006 times)

hazzer19

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1590 on: April 18, 2023, 10:23:58 AM »
Just starting my 168 build with Di2 - am I supposed to route the front derailleur wire through the cable stop, or through the hole that comes with a rubber cap in it directly below the derailleur mount? If it isn't for Di2, what is that hole for?


I think I recall the hole with the rubber cap you are talking about, but I ended up going through the cable stop for some reason with mine. I had to drill out the cable stop a bit as the head of the Di2 wire didn't fit. I would look at the hole you are referring to in case it works better.

curvenut

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1591 on: April 22, 2023, 08:42:02 AM »
From The Un-Official Guide To Fixing Headset Play thread

3. The top headset bearing is recessed too far into the head tube cup, causing the headset cover to rub on the frame, preventing the complete headset stack to properly compress. If this is the case you will need a thicker headset bearing (7mm, 7.5mm or 8mm thick) or a thicker c-ring so that it sits flush with the top of the headset opening on the frame, thus preventing the headset cover from rubbing the frame. EDIT: Another resolution is adding some micro spacers between the c-ring and top cap.

 Which C ring is used here to avoid the rubbing ?
Someone had a link to the nline merchant ?

Thanks

Eddy_Twerckx

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1592 on: April 23, 2023, 08:26:59 AM »
Which C ring is used here to avoid the rubbing ?
Someone had a link to the nline merchant ?

Thanks

If I remember right, people were just taking the standard headset spacer rings (thin circular shims I think like 0.5mm thick?) and just cutting them to match the C shape of the wedge piece.

curvenut

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1593 on: April 23, 2023, 04:10:01 PM »
Despite of all the reported problems, I did a dry run on the headset today.

The good thing is that the new version of the headset is delivered with split spcers and that it should eliminate any play without adding micro spacers.

On the downside, the compressing ring with the dustcover builds up that high that there is a gap of 2mm between the frame and the dustcover. Thereby, the dustcover has no rubber sealing. So there is no protection for the bearing, which btw is of poor quality as well - the sealing is not worth its name, one can see the balls.

I menwhile deeply regret the purchase of the frame.

Hi,

   Wondring if the recent folks who bought this frame had that gap problemv between the frame and dust cover??
Also does it come now with a better quality sealed bearing ??

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 23, 2023, 06:50:06 PM by curvenut »

voshond

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1594 on: April 27, 2023, 05:01:10 PM »
Hey folks (:

Been quite happy with by VB-R-168 so far.
I just recently bought myself a 3D Printer and started to model a few parts here and there. 1 thing I always hated was, that the canyon out-front mount for the Wahoo Elemnt Bolt v2 was actually the one for the v1, so there was always a Gap.

Excuse the sad quality, of the model, it was my first ever project. After that, I decided to also create one for the Garmin 830.

I uploaded the Fusion 360 files here: https://mega.nz/folder/wNYjBQIY#gIKU2FU0denS4fp3pBvjpQ
The Wahoo one has also a GoPro mount at the bottom, where I would mount my headlights.
I printed it in PETG-CF with an BambuLab P1P

Hope someone finds this useful  :)
Maybe you find my Velobuild VB-R-168 Compedium useful: Link to Google Sheets

dalon

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1595 on: April 28, 2023, 06:46:05 AM »
@voshond

Thank you for sharing the files!

It would be nice also to have a Garmin file with Gopro attack!

Thanks in advance!
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To stay balanced you have to move“

curvenut

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1596 on: April 30, 2023, 05:40:55 PM »
Hi,

  I did not find the info on velobuild website, , but what is the carbon spec of the frame  ?

Thanks

Zdrenka89

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1597 on: May 03, 2023, 06:46:45 AM »
I have had some increasing issues with my headset recently. Lots of creaking no matter what I did.
After inspection is was clear that the C-ring was the culprit (as others have discovered). It just doesn't have enough wrap-around angle. You can see on the picture how much pressure is on the edges of the c-ring, causing rubbing and creaking.

I know Velobuild have made an updated version that might be better, but i wanted a significantly better version. My idea was to use the c-ring from the Specialized SL7 (the replacement after recall). It seems like a good design that wraps all the way around (95%) but doesnt need the hydraulic lines to be broken. The main problem is that it is made for a Ø40.5mm inner dimension bearing. Its also too thin to be a direct replacement.

Sourcing the SL7 c-ring (ID: s212500016) was a bit of a pain. Specialized was slow to send it to my local dealer (3 weeks). On top of that the price was high (35$ + shipping) and the customer service was terrible. The holy trifecta of a shit deal - but it worked out in the end.

I work in engineering so I called in favor to get the c-ring lathed down to Ø40 (a little tricky with an open ring) and I got a small spacer made for purpose. Spacer measurements are Ø30.9 x Ø28.9 x 2mm (stainless steel). Fits just as intended with the one piece handlebar. I have gone for a couple of rides now and I cant get a single creak out of the headset no mater how much I pull and twist on the bars.

Dear Velobuild - Please spend the extra $10-15 dollars on a proper c-ring design like this one. It is sooo much better. 

Original C-ring. Waaay to open.


You can see that so much of the load is going through the edge of the ring.


Lathed c-ring from SL7 + spacer


Spacer needs to be very small to not squeze the cables.



Gap between frame and cover is pretty good. You can shave of a couple of 0.1mm if you want it tight.



curvenut

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1598 on: May 03, 2023, 08:55:42 PM »
I have had some increasing issues with my headset recently. Lots of creaking no matter what I did.
After inspection is was clear that the C-ring was the culprit (as others have discovered). It just doesn't have enough wrap-around angle. You can see on the picture how much pressure is on the edges of the c-ring, causing rubbing and creaking.

I know Velobuild have made an updated version that might be better, but i wanted a significantly better version. My idea was to use the c-ring from the Specialized SL7 (the replacement after recall). It seems like a good design that wraps all the way around (95%) but doesnt need the hydraulic lines to be broken. The main problem is that it is made for a Ø40.5mm inner dimension bearing. Its also too thin to be a direct replacement.

Sourcing the SL7 c-ring (ID: s212500016) was a bit of a pain. Specialized was slow to send it to my local dealer (3 weeks). On top of that the price was high (35$ + shipping) and the customer service was terrible. The holy trifecta of a shit deal - but it worked out in the end.

I work in engineering so I called in favor to get the c-ring lathed down to Ø40 (a little tricky with an open ring) and I got a small spacer made for purpose. Spacer measurements are Ø30.9 x Ø28.9 x 2mm (stainless steel). Fits just as intended with the one piece handlebar. I have gone for a couple of rides now and I cant get a single creak out of the headset no mater how much I pull and twist on the bars.

Dear Velobuild - Please spend the extra $10-15 dollars on a proper c-ring design like this one. It is sooo much better. 

Original C-ring. Waaay to open.


You can see that so much of the load is going through the edge of the ring.


Lathed c-ring from SL7 + spacer


Spacer needs to be very small to not squeze the cables.



Gap between frame and cover is pretty good. You can shave of a couple of 0.1mm if you want it tight.



Nice !

 Did you just pass the brake cable  only ??

Also could you post the link for the spacer you used ?

Thanks

Zdrenka89

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1599 on: May 04, 2023, 02:41:53 AM »

Nice !

 Did you just pass the brake cable  only ??

Also could you post the link for the spacer you used ?

Thanks

Thanks. I use SRAM AXS Etap so only brake cables, yes. I think this would be to tight for mechanical shifting (4 cables). Older cabled Di2 should be fine.

The spacer is custom, so unfortunately you cant buy it. I posted the dimensions if you know someone that can make one for you.

curvenut

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1600 on: May 05, 2023, 11:46:12 AM »
Hi,
you can order this from Aliexpress. I have now put 2mm in between. There is a lot, so you have a crack. Probably 1.5 mm is enough.

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/33056428213.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3f864c4d5ooMFw
@renrew did you use those spacers ? Does it revolve the space problem
Also I gues you cut the spacer yourself to a c ring
« Last Edit: May 05, 2023, 11:48:07 AM by curvenut »

BerndSon

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1601 on: May 05, 2023, 03:55:41 PM »
I have had some increasing issues with my headset recently. Lots of creaking no matter what I did.
After inspection is was clear that the C-ring was the culprit (as others have discovered). It just doesn't have enough wrap-around angle. You can see on the picture how much pressure is on the edges of the c-ring, causing rubbing and creaking.

I know Velobuild have made an updated version that might be better, but i wanted a significantly better version. My idea was to use the c-ring from the Specialized SL7 (the replacement after recall). It seems like a good design that wraps all the way around (95%) but doesnt need the hydraulic lines to be broken. The main problem is that it is made for a Ø40.5mm inner dimension bearing. Its also too thin to be a direct replacement.

Sourcing the SL7 c-ring (ID: s212500016) was a bit of a pain. Specialized was slow to send it to my local dealer (3 weeks). On top of that the price was high (35$ + shipping) and the customer service was terrible. The holy trifecta of a shit deal - but it worked out in the end.

I work in engineering so I called in favor to get the c-ring lathed down to Ø40 (a little tricky with an open ring) and I got a small spacer made for purpose. Spacer measurements are Ø30.9 x Ø28.9 x 2mm (stainless steel). Fits just as intended with the one piece handlebar. I have gone for a couple of rides now and I cant get a single creak out of the headset no mater how much I pull and twist on the bars.

Dear Velobuild - Please spend the extra $10-15 dollars on a proper c-ring design like this one. It is sooo much better.



Fully agree, the stock C-ring is just horrible.
In my case, it was two main issues and i guess many others suffer from that too (maybe without knowing the root cause).
Wanted to post this in the headset play issue thread but since its corrupted and you mentioned this topic here I also want to put in my two cents.

The C Ring is way too stiff since its just massive. Due to that, the headset needs to be compressed with a lot higher force than its made for in order to cause the elastic deformation of the C clip which is needed to close the gap between inner bearing ring and fork tube (which is what it is all about in order to avoid headset play).
I guess this is why many people complain about headset play even though they tightened everything. Also the stated problems with de-formed top caps might be a result of the high compression forces.

I could solve it the following way:

I found there is a noticeable play between C-ring and Fork tube (if you just put the C-ring on the fork tube). Like stated above, excessive tightening of the headset is needed in order to cause this bulky monster of a C-ring to deform elastically that much that any play is gone. Therefore i pre-compressed the C ring with a vice (carefully, gradually) to cause a plastic deformation so that in the end it sits really tight on the fork tube (almost had to stretch it in order to get it on the fork tube). This brought the headset compression / tightening torque to a regular level and the system was without play.  Furthermore i needed a shim in order to maintain a small gap between top steerer tube und first spacer / dust cap device, - even though i definitely received the most recent version of the c-Ring which should already have solved that problem. That fix worked pretty well, no further isues noticed even though i tested it in rough road conditions.

In the end i equipped the bike with a one pro handlebar (which i can only recommend, - purchased unbranded directly from the manufacturer through alibaba for 95 dollar, looks really good and in total saves almost 200 grams). It comes with Spacers and a way better C-ring. With this C-ring, the needed elastic deformation can be caused with the small finger which is how it should be. Unfortuately that one was too thick, causing a huge gap between steerer tube top and first spacer. I fortunately have access to a lathe and with a little creativity the part could be clamped and machined there.

All in all a much better and lighter system and i can't imagine that the use of such a c-ring would cause any problems in the cost planning of vb.



« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 04:30:19 PM by BerndSon »

curvenut

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1602 on: May 06, 2023, 06:01:11 AM »
I am about to buy this frame but the spacers and c ring  problem with the headset people have like Zdrenka89 and berndson is a bummer.  Seems like a hit or miss with this frame.

I am wondering if the vbr 177 had less problem ??

BerndSon

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1603 on: May 07, 2023, 04:25:15 PM »
I am about to buy this frame but the spacers and c ring  problem with the headset people have like Zdrenka89 and berndson is a bummer.  Seems like a hit or miss with this frame.

I am wondering if the vbr 177 had less problem ??

hi there, - together with the 168 frame i bought a 177 for a friend which we've just built last week. Bearings, c-ring, headset, everything in that area is identical between both mentioned frames. Anyway, that really simple fix with the vice worked for me and workes for my friend, so don't see this as a blocker! Despite that the only further "fix" was a small 0.25mm shim between C-Clip and dust cap since without it the gap seemed a little too narrow for me so i just used it. You will get such a shim in almost every local bike shop which does repairs.

Altough i wrote about several "issues" with the frames, i would buy it again!  I wanted to point out some weaknesses and fixes to help others, not to complain.  For me its still a great deal, its just fact that most people will need to do some small adjustments and fixes in order to build a bike without any functional drawbacks which makes them happy. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 04:28:55 PM by BerndSon »

Zdrenka89

Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
« Reply #1604 on: May 09, 2023, 04:10:25 AM »
The C Ring is way too stiff since its just massive. Due to that, the headset needs to be compressed with a lot higher force than its made for in order to cause the elastic deformation of the C clip which is needed to close the gap between inner bearing ring and fork tube (which is what it is all about in order to avoid headset play).
I guess this is why many people complain about headset play even though they tightened everything. Also the stated problems with de-formed top caps might be a result of the high compression forces.

Good observations and definitely true. I cant believe so many Chinese framesets use this C-ring design. To stiff and too open. All this compression on this C-ring will just end up scoring your headset bearings.