Author Topic: Tavelo Aero Frame  (Read 34599 times)

repoman

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #120 on: August 07, 2024, 10:22:09 AM »
There really doesn't seem to be an engineer on youtube that is actually a carbon expert. I believe PT is a mech engineer (not sure of his specialty) and Hambini is a engineer that specializes in bearings and machining (?)...when these guys delve into giving opinions on carbon it seems like they are out of their depth and not much better than channels that do things like cut frames up and say stuff like 'ooh, this is glued up neatly, or this wrinkle looks ugly and maybe it's a bad part of the frame.'

There's Luescher Teknik but he doesn't really make a lot of content or comment too much on OEM frame stuff.
There's that Jordan Coleman channel and he has some carbon expert dude but that entire channel reeks of BS and shilling so bad I don't watch anything from it.

Sakizashi

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #121 on: August 07, 2024, 11:49:44 AM »
The rise of the engineering influencer is a net negative for the profession. By nature, engineering is the study of trades not a study of principles and theories (that's physics!), and I wish PT in particular would have more discussion on this though that might require the engineers on the product side to exchange an email or two with him.

The multiple videos on SRAM Transmission were a great example of how PT didn't understand how that system worked or the tradeoffs that the SRAM engineers' teams made to get there. Without commenting on PT's individual talent since I do not know him or his CV, it would be very rare to find a single engineer who is smarter and has thought through a design more comprehensively than a room full of similarly qualified engineers, which SRAM definitely had working on Transmission. However, I doubt the hubs he has critiqued had a similar level of effort put into their design. He also had those in person and was able to show identify significant issues. I believe he is qualified as a PE.

I would listen carefully to PT if he has a product in hand and is commenting on its actual merits, particularly if his concerns extend to the function of the item he is testing. I would take the theoretical critiques with a couple shovels of salt.

Raul Luescher is pretty approachable as are are other carbon experts like the guys from Ruckus composites, but its hard for them to offer substantive critiques based on photos from a boroscope; so most of them don't.

Takiyaki

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #122 on: August 07, 2024, 01:30:58 PM »
it would be very rare to find a single engineer who is smarter and has thought through a design more comprehensively than a room full of similarly qualified engineers, which SRAM definitely had working on Transmission.
You don't have to be smarter than a design engineer to see flaws in their designs. For example I'm sure the engineers who designed hookless road wheels/tires are very smart, but the concept/product is obviously very flawed.

That said, folks like PT/Hambini etc have cultivated a following by presenting themselves as the smartest guy in every room, and since we live in a time where people are eager to outsource their thoughts and opinions it's unsurprising that they are so popular and that the things PT/Hambini say go unchallenged. We live in complicated times and ideological strongmen create a false simplicity for personal gain.

Again I watch and enjoy PT's content, but partially because he can be so over the top it gets to be ridiculous rather than inspiring or informative.

patliean1

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #123 on: August 07, 2024, 01:55:44 PM »
That said, folks like PT/Hambini etc have cultivated a following by presenting themselves as the smartest guy in every room, and since we live in a time where people are eager to outsource their thoughts and opinions it's unsurprising that they are so popular and that the things PT/Hambini say go unchallenged. We live in complicated times and ideological strongmen create a false simplicity for personal gain.

This sums up the entire Red Pill community on YouTube. Ironically, incel culture is a lot like cycling a times  :-X

gloscherrybomb

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #124 on: August 07, 2024, 05:18:13 PM »
They're all caricatures at the end of the day. If you want serious watch the zero friction cycling guy. I challenge you to stay awake for a whole episode.

PLA

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #125 on: August 08, 2024, 01:02:37 AM »
so how about that tavelo arow, what a frame
It’s so clearly a LARP of an aero bike.

RDY

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #126 on: August 08, 2024, 09:08:05 AM »
I thought it was mainly design issues with the Arow(s) that PT received.  Quality is garbage too.  He released a 40 min video.  I assume the non-Patreon version will be out next week.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2024, 09:30:25 AM by RDY »

Macedingle

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #127 on: August 08, 2024, 12:17:41 PM »
This sums up the entire Red Pill community on YouTube. Ironically, incel culture is a lot like cycling a times  :-X

I think both of them are doing a service to the community, like them or not their critical analysis helps keep brands honest. I look at them in a way as auditors that make sure brands are giving their best product to the consumers, and always improving their product. I do not think they approach it with a "smartest in the room" attitude, but more as a teacher since they know many people have not even taken a physics class. Most of their ideas check out from a basic physics perspective, and it holds a fire under brands asses to do better

Sakizashi

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #128 on: August 08, 2024, 01:08:07 PM »
You don't have to be smarter than a design engineer to see flaws in their designs. For example I'm sure the engineers who designed hookless road wheels/tires are very smart, but the concept/product is obviously very flawed.

That said, folks like PT/Hambini etc have cultivated a following by presenting themselves as the smartest guy in every room, and since we live in a time where people are eager to outsource their thoughts and opinions it's unsurprising that they are so popular and that the things PT/Hambini say go unchallenged. We live in complicated times and ideological strongmen create a false simplicity for personal gain.

Again I watch and enjoy PT's content, but partially because he can be so over the top it gets to be ridiculous rather than inspiring or informative.

I think Hookless is a great example of where the critiques are spot on. However, most of what we know now is based on people getting their hands on the products, not a theoretical critique. I 100% agree that you don't need to be a qualified engineer to see the obvious issues where expected cooperation or co-development of the product didn't materialize or was late to show up.

If there are design issues with the Arrow and PT has a critique based on his hands-on experience, I would personally think a lot about that. That is different from the hot takes on new tech, like the transmission videos I mentioned, which I would be skeptical of.

 I've sidetracked this thread enough, and I look forward to watching PT's review if it ever makes it to YouTube.

toxin

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #129 on: August 12, 2024, 03:53:20 PM »

patliean1

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #130 on: August 12, 2024, 04:11:16 PM »
Video is entertaining.

Had the same headset cap/cover issue on my Tavelo Attack. The cap rubbed on the top of the headtube which caused rubbing, and basically locked up the handlebars once pre-loaded. I had to sand down the bottom side of the top cap to create clearance on the frame. I would have hoped Tavelo fixed this issue almost 1 year later.

I'll probably still up end getting an Arow for review at some point LoL

kubackje

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2024, 04:52:24 PM »
and there it is https://youtu.be/XKGb5GN0kS8?si=d_z9jBbS6n6CWcOd

My 500$ do cycle gravel frame did not have 10% of the problems this overpriced YouTuber shill frame has. Absolutely ridiculous. I start wondering if all those "ex winspace" employees responsible for those overpriced crap products actually left the company or just got sacked. Because winspace is doing fine which cannot be said about tavelo and few other craps pushed by panda podium.

Nomuetze

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #132 on: August 13, 2024, 04:20:06 AM »
That really sounds and looks disappointing in so many ways.
Somehow feels like they just erased 2 previous generations of steps ahead into the right direction…generally speaking
for eastern developments.

kubackje

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2024, 06:06:27 AM »
That really sounds and looks disappointing in so many ways.
Somehow feels like they just erased 2 previous generations of steps ahead into the right direction…generally speaking
for eastern developments.

To be fair grant from GC performance built this frame and had no problems with it. He says the headset setup is almost the same like in colnago c68 - hard to work on of you do it first time. He answered few questions in the comment section under his recent video.But sadly PT had way more problems then just steering tube stuff.

Nomuetze

Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2024, 06:52:50 AM »
Ja, and from what I read, PT and PandaP and NeroCycl. will discuss those issues later on their channels and PC.
So let’s see.
not that I was in for this particular frame, as I am really pretty happy with the Tavelo Attack with mech. shifting. since
some 7000km…