Author Topic: Wide road / Cyclocross rims  (Read 3960 times)

WorkingHPRs

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Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« on: February 23, 2015, 10:16:28 AM »
Was feeling pretty pleased with myself last night after picking up a set of very reasonably priced DT Swiss hubs. Now feeling not so pleased as I am trying to figure out what would be a good compromise rim (preferably some sort of chinese carbon :) )

This wheel set will be running on my CX bike which I hope to race next season (for the first time) and I will also be doing a couple of CX sportives (off road endurance rides). For the sportives I plan on running WTB's 700 x 40C nano tyre tubeless and fairly low pressure, I thought this rim from light bicycle would be a good choice:

http://www.light-bicycle.com/wider-carbon-mountain-29er-rims-clincher-tubeless-compatible.html#.VOtNQ_msWLA

These rims have a nice thick rim bead @ 3mm and are relatively light whilst being quite wide (ID of 24mm) but I am nervous of the 40psi max pressure. I like the idea of the (relatively) large volume for the 40C tyre and the wide rim + low pressures, seems like it will make the bike a lot more pleasant to ride, not to mention faster off road.

For racing I am guessing I will have to go to something narrower (isn't the limit around 33C?) which presumably will need to be a higher pressure? Whilst I am sure I wont be heading for road pressures 40psi doesn't seem like it leaves much room for maneuver, I would like to stay tubeless for the races if possible.

Does anyone have any bright ideas? Is an ID of 24mm to much for CX? All of the CX rims i've looked at seem to be a lot narrower.

Many thanks,

Mike

« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 03:37:39 AM by WorkingHPRs »



JohnnyNT

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Re: Cyclocross / road rims compromise
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 01:28:11 PM »
Well, if you consider that most CX tires are probably around 30-33 mm, 24mm ID rim seems a bit excessive.

WorkingHPRs

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Re: Cyclocross / road rims compromise
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 02:18:07 PM »
Maybe, just looking for opinions, but I run front 35mm ID with 2.25" (57.2mm) on the MTB so the tyres are about 1.6 times the width of the rim and rea 35mm ID with 2" (50mm) so about 1.4 times the width. 24mm id with 1.6 ratio would be a 38mm tyre and with 1.4 it would be 34, so with running low pressures maybe not such a daft idea?

Appreciate the input though, what would be nice would be a largish ID road wheel, maybe 22mm.

Cheers,

Mike

WorkingHPRs

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 03:46:47 AM »
After much searching the best I have come up with so far is this:

http://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/ardennes-plus/ardennes-plus-sl

Rims are 25mm external width and 20mm internal width @ 465g. Rims are available on their own (known as the "Belgium +")

Lots of positive reviews abound:

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/components/wheel-sets/product/review-hed-ardennes-plus-sl-47670/

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Training_Wheels/Ardennes_long_term_review_4056.html

Granted it possibly shows that my earlier choice was excessive (as pointed out by JohnnyNT) so now I am looking for a carbon equivalent.

cmh

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 05:37:54 AM »
After much searching the best I have come up with so far is this:

http://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/ardennes-plus/ardennes-plus-sl

There are several other options, all of which can be had from the same great shop based out of NC. (no relation, just a customer)

Least expensive option, I've built a set of these:
http://www.bikehubstore.com/C472w-p/c472w.htm

Built up easily, very high quality, reasonably light.

Some more recent options:
http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/210.htm
http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/208.htm

The in-between option:
http://www.bikehubstore.com/H-Plus-Son-Archetype-23mm-Rim-p/hpsa.htm

The pricier option, and what I'm planning on getting (at some point):
http://www.bikehubstore.com/PacentiSL23-p/sl23.htm

Bike Hub Store carries a bunch of stuff, and if you're running disk brakes, you have even more options as they now carry Stan's NoTubes stuff. There are a ton of wider rim options available there.

Carbon_Dude

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 07:30:41 AM »
I would lean toward no more than 25mm wide rims for Cyclecross.  If you get wider than that I would think you would be increasing rolling resistance without much other benefit.
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WorkingHPRs

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 02:23:53 PM »
Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/downloads/Rolling_Resistance_Eng_illustrated.pdf

Seems to suggest wider and lower pressure are the way to go? I wonder if someone has done similar in mud?

cmh

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 09:43:02 AM »
Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/downloads/Rolling_Resistance_Eng_illustrated.pdf

Seems to suggest wider and lower pressure are the way to go? I wonder if someone has done similar in mud?

If that were true, my fat bike running 3 psi would just about ride itself.  Guess what?  ;D

To be fair, I do run lower pressure on my road bike, sometimes as low as 80psi with 23mm tubeless tires, lower when I'm running the 28s, and it does feel nice, and doesn't feel slow, but it's still going to be a balancing act. Run what you want (except when rules dictate otherwise) and it's really not going to be a huge difference.

WorkingHPRs

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 01:50:43 PM »
it's still going to be a balancing act.

 ;)

Joelk

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2015, 08:53:51 PM »
Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/downloads/Rolling_Resistance_Eng_illustrated.pdf

Seems to suggest wider and lower pressure are the way to go? I wonder if someone has done similar in mud?

If that were true, my fat bike running 3 psi would just about ride itself.  Guess what?  ;D

To be fair, I do run lower pressure on my road bike, sometimes as low as 80psi with 23mm tubeless tires, lower when I'm running the 28s, and it does feel nice, and doesn't feel slow, but it's still going to be a balancing act. Run what you want (except when rules dictate otherwise) and it's really not going to be a huge difference.
I think it all comes down to the surface.  I have found that my fat bike (4.8" tires) rolls easier than my 29er with 2.4" tires over areas with lots of wrist to forearm sized roots, or fist sized to baby head sized rocks.

I ride two rooty trails, one of which is very rooty where the fat bike is actually faster, and one that is relatively rooty where the times are the same on both bikes.  Of course the 29er is faster just about everywhere else.

I also live close to the Delaware river and I ride the sandy/rocky shoreline at low tide.  On the soft sand only the fat bike works, on the firm sand the 29er can move, but the fat bike is still faster.  Gravel sized rocks both bikes go about the same.  Fist sized the fat bike is faster/smoother.  When you start getting into baby head and bigger rocks I have trouble even riding the 29er while the fat bike keeps going until it gets really big/jagged when I do not have the trials skills to continue.

Thus, I would say look at where you want to ride.  The rougher the wider rim/tire I would run, on the other hand if it is smooth I would choose a more moderate rim/tire width.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 08:55:24 PM by Joelk »

WorkingHPRs

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2015, 03:44:00 PM »
Going with either:

http://www.nextie-bike.com/mtb/carbon-fiber-29er-wheels-clincher-hookless/carbon-fiber-29er-hookless-mtb-rim-27mm-width-clincher-tubeless-ready

27/22 @ 360g +/-10g

or

http://xmiplay.com/ProductDetails1686

27/22 @ 365g +/- 15g

Think they are identical from the cross section diagram.

If no one can get them to me quick enough, then I will probably go with either the

HED Belgium plus one 25/20 @ 469g

or the Pacenti SL25 24.5/20 @ 450g

Thanks for everyone's input much appreciated.

cmh

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2015, 03:51:49 PM »
I think it all comes down to the surface.  I have found that my fat bike (4.8" tires) rolls easier than my 29er with 2.4" tires over areas with lots of wrist to forearm sized roots, or fist sized to baby head sized rocks.

What tires are you running? I've got Vee Snowshoe 4.5s and they roll like the brakes are dragging. Last week we rode Wharton State Forest (not too far from you, most likely) and I took the fat bike and it felt like I was going uphill the whole way. Rode the 29er with 2.2s today and it felt much better. Hard to compare times since this was a group ride so more stops.

Joelk

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2015, 04:13:51 PM »
I have a Surly Bud in the front, and put quite a few miles on a Surly Lou in the rear.  For about the last two months I have been using a Vee Snowshoe XL in the rear.  All on Nextie 90mm rims.  The Snowshoe XL rolls better than the Bud, but the Bud has more traction and handles better.

Did you ride Wharton with Jim and his fatbike group last weekend?  I ride with them most weekends that I am in town.

cmh

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2015, 05:46:58 AM »
I have a Surly Bud in the front, and put quite a few miles on a Surly Lou in the rear.  For about the last two months I have been using a Vee Snowshoe XL in the rear.  All on Nextie 90mm rims.  The Snowshoe XL rolls better than the Bud, but the Bud has more traction and handles better.

Yeah, seems like the Bud and Lou combo is the popular one, although the concept of a Snowshoe rolling _better_ than them terrifies me, unless the wider XL rolls even better than my 4.5s. Hard to imagine a tire rolling even slower than these. :)

Quote
Did you ride Wharton with Jim and his fatbike group last weekend?  I ride with them most weekends that I am in town.

Nope, have seen fatties out there but usually riding with my wife on her "skinny" bike. Only time I've ridden with fat bikes was at the beginning of the season on a snow ride - which was why I decided to try it out, I was on my FS 29er at the time.

Joelk

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Re: Wide road / Cyclocross rims
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2015, 05:13:36 PM »
Nope, have seen fatties out there but usually riding with my wife on her "skinny" bike. Only time I've ridden with fat bikes was at the beginning of the season on a snow ride - which was why I decided to try it out, I was on my FS 29er at the time.

Next time you are in the pines try riding the enduro dirt bike trails or fire cuts where the ground/sand is soft.  That is where the fat bike starts to shine, when you ride where it is too soft for a regular bike to work well

Another place that I was surprised that I liked the fat bike was Wissahickon.  I really enjoyed the rocky downhills.  That should be relatively local for you.