Discussion about complete bikes from well-known brands

[alfiomotrambo]

Hi guys

Over the last few weeks, I had the chance to check out some well-known local bike brands in my area. I was staggered by the prices for what you get. For example:

- Merida Scultura 5000: A great-looking bike in the Bahrain Team colors. The price was €3000, equipped with 105 Di2, no wheels (i will put mine), and an overall weight of 8.5 kg (an aero bike, but quite heavy).

- Cannondale SuperSix: A more standard-looking bike from a more well-known brand. It cost €4600 for a 105 Di2 build, also with no wheels.

- Giant Propel Advanced 1: Another stunning bike, but priced at €4000 for an 8.5 kg build with 105 Di2.

- Cube Agree C:62 Pro: Not the most beautiful bike, but solid overall. For just €3300, it came in at 8 kg with carbon wheels. However, Cube is known for having some quality control issues.

In comparison, I looked at this custom build option:

Ican A9: UCI-approved frame (€1300)
Shimano Ultegra Di2 (€1300)
Elite Wheels Edge (€600)
Other components from my current bike, like tires, pedals, and bar tape.

For around €3000, I could get a much better bike: lighter, and in my opinion, more beautiful than the ones above. I just don’t understand why so many people want to ride these big-name bikes—you’re basically paying for the marketing while getting lower-quality components for a much higher price.

What do you guys think? Does my point make sense?

Also, where do you see this trend heading in the future? Personally, I think more people will start buying "Chinese frames" in the coming years.

Lastly, if this isn’t the right section for this topic, let me know, and I’ll move it.

Let me know if you'd like further tweaks!

[Takiyaki]

A lot of people a) don't want the hassle of sourcing every nut and bolt b) want to have warranty coverage and the comfort of knowing if anything is up with the bike they should be covered.

I'm like you and also a budget weight weenie so I want to choose everything. I like the thrill of the hunt. But I realize everyone's not like me and there's no "right" way to do it. That said I do agree that barring tariff impacts direct to consumer Chinese stuff will keep getting more popular, just as it has been over the last 20 or so years.

[repoman]

Most people don't know how to build up a frame/want to invest in tools.
You have to do a lot more research with OEM/Aliexpress brand stuff and you have to be prepared to get burned on bad stuff sometimes. 
You don't get dealer/warranty support.
The stuff has dubious reputation that is realistically never going to be shaken in the minds of 90% of consumers.
Lots of people don't care about the difference between a 16 lbs road bike and an 18 lbs road bike.
Resale value is basically non-existent, to the point where you are probably losing more money building up bikes with OEM stuff vs having name brand.
If I didn't enjoy building up bikes so much, I would probably not be riding OEM carbon/using Aliexpress stuff.   
The stuff is getting more and more expensive and closing in on brand pricing these days, with the coming tariffs in the USA, there might be a massive increase in the cost to the point where it is totally not worth it. An example I was reminded of was that It's basically impossible to find a bare carbon saddle these days on Aliexpress for less than 100 bucks, they are more expensive than saddles that cost a lot more to make which have 3D printed surfaces, Chinese sellers have learned that people will pay more for the lightweight stuff and are now doing the same performance per gram stuff as western brands. 7 years ago I bought a bare carbon 50g saddle for 25 dollars on Aliexpress.  A lot of groups, like non serial number stuff from Sram is now more expensive on Aliexpress than legit retailers in the West. 

[patliean1]

We could contribute to a more inclusive cycling community if we didn't use our personal buying decisions as some sort of virtue against others who spend either more or less. Don't worry, this mindset frequents itself in both the Chinese and high-end bike forums. It's just becomes contentious.

I've pretty much ridden the majority of important bike from the Western brands, all the way down to the $500 VeloBuilds. Each brand offers something of value depending on the specific customer.

I recently got my hands on a set of the latest ENVE SES 4.5 wheels on borrow for review. They are almost $2900 USD. I would never invest in a set of hookless road wheels for myself, let alone that kind of money. Ironically that's complete Chinese bike money. On paper the 4.5s are heavier than all the comparable Chinese brand rivals. However, they are incredible to ride. Not a placebo. They feel extremely fast and mostly importantly absolutely bulletproof.

Lifetime warranty for the original customer, and service turn around time is ONE WEEK. Built in America. ENVE uses their own in-house hub design similar to DT Swiss. 60t, 80t, and a whopping 100t star ratchets available. Customer support from fluent English speakers. Dealer network all over the country.

Are you paying a premium to fund World Tour teams and pay American laborers? Yes. Are they amazing wheels? Yes. Would I own pair if I won the lottery tomorrow? Also yes. And yet some of my favorite wheels are a set of Yoeleo C60 Pro wheels that can be had for $800.

[Sakizashi]

I agree with @patliean1 that its a pointless discussion to discuss value like this. $1 also means different things to different people. If you make $100K a $10k bike is a lot. If you make $500k its going to hurt your savings rate in a month, but you aren't saving up money for that purchase.

One true thing is that R&D is expensive, so marginal improvements quickly become costly. Look at Seka and Elilee bikes. These follow many of the same development processes that the mid-range models from bike name brands have with relatively high-end layups. They cost the same as a mid-range bike. They are still more than 50% of the cost of an S Works too--without the same number of design iterations and wind tunnel validation, but not development. Not to mention heavier, rougher finishing on small parts, and heavier paint.

You see the same thing with wheels. Development costs money, but if you are willing to pay for little gains, they might be worth it. Remember that the Enve SES 4.5 / 4.5 AR wheel design was launched nearly 9 years ago, and though its only gotten ~7% lighter in its second generation; it's still considered one of the best wheelsets money can buy despite having the same profile rims. The 4.5 AR built-up with DT 240 hubs is also a wheelset I regret selling.

I am of the opinion that you should, within your budget, buy the bike that inspires you the most to ride. Whether it's a desire to experiment, design, or build your own bike or affinity with a brand / team, it's you enjoying your ride that matters.

[Sebastian]

Also, some people might just want to have the same bike as a pro team. Or they really identify with a certain brand for whatever reason - be it very clever and successful marketing. That's totally alright with me. Going the full custom route really isn't for everyone.

I actually like the comparison that Patrick has made a few times with tuner cars vs full on sports cars. There's some people who pride themselves with having tweaked their VW Golfs or Japanese cookie cutters to be as fast as a Porsche by putting all kinds of components on them. These guys are usually part of a strong DIY culture. If something breaks, they're usually fine with it as it's part of the fun for them. Their cars might be as fast as a Porsche but it will never BE a Porsche.

And then there's the guys actually buying a Porsche. They would probably never lay a hand on their car themselves because why would they? Going to their trusted dealer and getting the full service experience is part of the package when buying into the brand.

Neither is necessarily better than the other. It's just different things.

[jonathanf2]

All my riding is hard climbing and sketchy fast descents. Every so often, I see an outlier cyclist, who doesn't ride a fancy road bike and/or wears a very basic kit. Though the moment you see their massive Popeye-like calves, you know they're not f**king around. I know one guy who racks up a million feet of climbing or over 300k meters a year. Endurance climbers are built differently than the weekend roadie. They don't care about being the fastest, only that they climb the most.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, who cares what you opt for. Some people like getting their bikes from the shop ready-to-go and others like to tinker. On top of that, there's nothing wrong mixing-n-matching. Get some bad ass Chinese carbon wheels on your mainstream bike or run Shimano Dura-Ace Di2/SRAM RED on your Chinese frameset.

Once you're out on the road, run what you brung!

[nabilou]

if we analyse merida, almost same size than giant. owner of around 50% of specialized. owner of a famous factory which is know to build state of the art bicycles.
all the process is optimised and the suality control too.
but building a bicycle is a sum of details and at each step , even a famous factory has thz possibility to follow the somerhing between the cheapest and the more expensive way.
for example the resin is quite important. if you build the same bike with the same specs but with different resin, some years later, one can become a spaghetti and the other one can stay stiff. nobody speaks about the resin , but maybe it is better with a big factory. i think oem makes great and robust frames but i believe their beahviour evolves faster than best branded frames. the final cost is the difference between the buying price and the selling price. at the end, i m not sure that the the lost money makes the difference.