Author Topic: My FM-057 Build Thread.  (Read 60447 times)

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2014, 11:37:55 AM »
Okay, first potential problem.

I've noticed that the connector insert that came as extras with my ChainReactionCycles order isn't the same as the one that Shimano uses. The Shimano one is silver and has a larger diameter opening than the extra one provided by CRC. I've got to assume that this matters, and I've unfortunately already installed the smaller gold one.

The positive is that the front brake came with the extra insert that is exactly like the Shimano one, so if I need to, I can use it.. Problem is, if I have to shorten the front hose then I will have to order another insert. Does anyone know if this is something to be concerned about or should I make the effort to swap out the smaller one for the Shimano one?

The one on the left is the one already installed.. and the one on the right is the silver larger one that came with my front brake and looks identical to the Shimano one.



Fairly annoyed with ChainReactionCycles at this point. First, they send the wrong color... now the send the rear brake with the wrong extra insert. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 11:17:55 PM by Sitar_Ned »

Carbon_Dude

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2014, 11:40:44 AM »
Most likely they are different, use the Shimano insert and wait until you have a spare to shorten the front brake line.

You should have gotten one extra with each Shimano brake.  If not then you will need to order spares or see if the LBS has one, they are like $5 each.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 11:43:01 AM by Carbon_Dude »
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Izzy

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2014, 04:29:29 PM »
I'll echo what Carbon Dude said.. DO NOT use those inserts. Use the ones that look exactly like the Shimano ones. Made that exact mistake once before and took me forever to figure out why my front brake felt so much better than my rear.

And in case you haven't already figured it out yet.. Those things can be quite the pain to get all the way in the hose.

Carbon_Dude

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2014, 04:39:28 PM »
If you use the pair of yellow blocks that hold the brake line (they would have come with the Shimano brakes), it's not too difficult to install.  Just clamp the cut end of the brake line between the yellow blocks, pinch the blocks in a vise or vise-grips, and tap the insert down with a hammer making sure it bottoms out.  Also make sure you have all the other parts on the brake line prior to installing the insert.

2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2014, 04:53:51 PM »
Well.. the Shimano isn't hard to install using the yellow block tool BUT the other one - the wrong one - was EXTREMELY difficult to install lol. I was up til one in the morning messing with that thing until I finally said to heck with it and brute force hammered that thing in, with no regards to preserving the condition of the insert.

Today, came home on my lunch brake (mineral fluid on my tie!) and had the correct insert installed in under 20 minutes. I was wondering why that was so difficult last night.. wrong insert! Thx for the help, guys. Glad it's done... seems to be working fine. Hope it stays that way.

Carbon_Dude

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2014, 05:14:41 PM »
Also be careful with how much torque you apply to the hex nut, if you over-tighten the nut you will crush the olive.  I've done this twice.  I guess that's why they include the crowfoot wrench so you can use a torque wrench to properly tighten the nut.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2014, 08:26:56 AM »
Also be careful with how much torque you apply to the hex nut, if you over-tighten the nut you will crush the olive.  I've done this twice.  I guess that's why they include the crowfoot wrench so you can use a torque wrench to properly tighten the nut.

I suppose I'd know if this happened? I assume by mineral fluid leaking as soon as I over tightened it? Think I may have actually avoided this problem (and I'm a chronic over tightener) simply by counting the amount of threads that was showing where the hose is connected to the caliper, and then just trying to duplicate that when screwing in the hose to the lever.

Either way.. rear brake is installed.. build on hold until my carbon paste and grease arrives from Jenson. Hopefully tomorrow. Today, I'll be researching where exactly you want to apply grease, carbon paste, and loctite throughout the build. I'll post my findings in this thread for anyone else that may not know.

After a bit of research, here is the grease and carbon paste and loctite I ordered. Great reviews for all:

http://www.jensonusa.com/Park-PPL-1-Polylube-1000-44-OZ

http://www.jensonusa.com/Park-Tool-SAC-2-Supergrip-Compound

http://www.amazon.com/LOCTITE-37418-Medium-Strength-Threadlocker/dp/B000FIXQXK

UPDATE: As to where exactly you would want to use loctite, grease, and carbon paste.. it seems the answer to that varies depending on who you ask. I was able to come to what seemed like was close to a consensus, so I'll attempt to summarize below. If I'm mistaken, plz feel free to call me out.

Loctite: Okay, seems this will used rather sparingly and used mostly as the need arises. I personally used loctite on the screws that attach the metal rear drop outs to the bike, the bolts that attach the brake caliper to the bike, and on the screws that attach the brake rotors to the wheels, and on the screws that hold your derailleurs to the frame. That's it. Apply just a small amount to the screw or bolt and then you can use it immediately - no need to wait until it dries. Also, on the dropout screws, I took the advice posted earlier in this thread and applied loctite to the threads, and a small amount of grease to the head/base of the bolt to avoid any potential future creaking issues. That probably isn't necessary, but it seemed logical so i went with it.

Carbon paste:  Also used sparingly. To the point that Carbon_Dude hasn't used any at all on either of his chiner builds, so it may be entirely unnecessary. Although, I will say that after using it, I could see how it could definitely allow you to use less torque on the handlebars and seat post clamp if you're worried about your carbon bits. From the research I've done, seems like it's a good idea to use it, but I wouldn't stress it if you don't have any. Maybe buy some if you start to have slippage issues.  I've only applied it to the handlebar and seatpost, and that's it.

Grease: This is probably obvious to many but I didn't realize that you were supposed to grease almost every screw or bolt (use your finger, just a very light coat) on the bike except for the places I've already mentioned above. You'll also use grease on your headset bearings, and on the steerer tube before you seat the crown race. (more on that on the next page of this thread)

Take note that many components come with bolts that already have grease or loctite applied. Obviously, if it has one.. don't apply the other. That's a pretty basic summary, and I'm certain I'm leaving something out, but that should help any fellow newbs get a better understanding of where to apply the various compounds. Feel free to add your input.



« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 11:23:01 PM by Sitar_Ned »

Carbon_Dude

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2014, 08:54:11 AM »
If you over tighten the brake line, it will leak and the brake line might even pull right out of the lever, it sucks when this happens because now you need a new insert and olive and then you need to start over again re-connecting the brake line.  If you squeeze the lever and have no leaks, and the lever is firm, you are god to go.

That's the same grease, Park Tools Polylube, that I used throughout my two bikes.

For either of the two Chiner builds I've done, I've not used any carbon paste.  There is some debate that if you don't need it to solve slippage problems, you don't need to use it.  Given there would only be two places I would even think it could be applied on my bikes, seat post and bars, I found that if I tighten the clamp and stem to the proper torque (5 N-m), I have zero slippage issues.

I suppose if you add carbon past you can reduce the torque down to maybe 3-4 N-m but for me it's just one less thing to worry about.

I purchased a Ritchey Torqkey to help with setting the torque more easily on carbon parts: 
http://www.amazon.com/Ritchey-TorqKey-5Nm-bits-T-15/dp/B009F93S9C

I have a torque wrench but this is something I can take with me on the trail and make adjustments and not worry about over tightening the bolts.  I suppose I could also just make note of how much I turned the bolt when I loosened it and re-tighten it the same amount but I thought the TorqKey was pretty cool, quick and easy.

2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Izzy

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2014, 01:06:57 PM »
I was up til one in the morning messing with that thing

Today, came home on my lunch brake (mineral fluid on my tie!)

Haha. Just like me, man - Mind can't rest until the job is done?

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2014, 06:07:27 PM »
I was up til one in the morning messing with that thing

Today, came home on my lunch brake (mineral fluid on my tie!)

Haha. Just like me, man - Mind can't rest until the job is done?

Ha! Yes, I suppose I do have that issue.

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2014, 11:06:30 PM »
I purchased a Ritchey Torqkey to help with setting the torque more easily on carbon parts: 
http://www.amazon.com/Ritchey-TorqKey-5Nm-bits-T-15/dp/B009F93S9C

Yeah, I didn't do enough research on whether I needed the carbon paste or not. I just figured it could only help, but maybe not.

So.. If I buy that Ritchey TorqKey linked above, will that be sufficient enough to complete my build? Or will I still need a torque wrench for rotors and other parts?


Carbon_Dude

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2014, 07:05:51 AM »
The Ritchey TorqKey is preset for 5N-m, or 45 in-lbs.  It would not be the only torque wrench you need, you should check out Harbor Freight, they have an inexpensive torque wrench in the range you will need.  The Ritchey TorqKey is just a tool of convenience :).
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2014, 11:02:27 PM »
Productivity levels.. Not so good today.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 11:24:34 PM by Sitar_Ned »

Sitar_Ned

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2014, 11:07:21 PM »
On the bright side, I did score this very old, slightly rusty, but seemingly operational beam-style torque wrench as a loaner from a friend:

« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 11:09:49 PM by Sitar_Ned »

Carbon_Dude

Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2014, 06:30:53 AM »
Any torque wrench is good enough.  Do you have hex key * torn bits for it?  I find that, for the bike, it's not much good without bits.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA