Help! XC Full Suspension build frame choice

[OffRoadTriGuy]

Hi guys. Been lurking a bit on here and I need some help.

I want a very aggressive XC full suspension bike. I have been looking at some frames but am a little curious. I really like the look of the 036 http://www.seeglobalonline.com/images/product/1974657954-10-71/IPLAY_IP_036_Dual_suspension_bicycle_full_carbon_mtb_frame_mtb_full_suspension_carbon_frame_29er_110_120mm_travel.jpg

but it seems they have replaced it with this  http://www.xmiplay.com/ProductDetails1579
  I much prefer the first one but I can not seem to locate it or any frames similar to it.

Is this company any good? http://www.onlinecyclingexperts.com/29er-full-carbon-full-suspension-mtb-frame-fm036.html

Is there maybe a 29er version of this? http://www.xmiplay.com/ProductDetails1655

Again, looking for a more aggressive sleek full suspension 29er build

[SportingGoods]

"Aggressive" is confusing to me. Please clarify so we can help. Do you mean aggressive steering, very lively and dynamic bike? Or do you mean a bike that can handle aggressive trails, stable over high speed downhills?
This would be two very different direction!

[Carbon_Dude]

The FM/IP/CS-036 is good for cross country and some trail, it's limitations are the amount of travel and the flex the frame has in the rear triangle.  If you look at carbon frames from companies like Santa Cruz you will see a much beefier design.

Workswell has a 29er (WCB-M-108) that looks to be more trail oriented, although travel is similar to the IP-036:  (http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/productlist/21.html)

There are a few others out there, you just need to continue searching.

[OffRoadTriGuy]

Good call. By "aggressive" I mean geometry wise, steep head angle and made to go fast in more flat terrain. Im not really doing too much technical downhill riding. This is mostly so I can save leg energy for the run portion of offroad triathlon.

Carbon_Dude. You seem pretty up on these dso if you say the 036 is a good choice for XC stuff then i definitely believe you. Im not too worried about flex as I'm a lighter rider. What would your recommended company be to order from?

[Carbon_Dude]

If it's aggressive geometry, meaning short wheelbase, steep head angle, and you are light, then the CS-036 from Peter at xmcarbonspeed.com is the way to go.  He should be able to get you a good price, and if you are interested in getting them to do a custom paint work, they do a nice job.

[bxcc]

Workswell has a 29er (WCB-M-108) that looks to be more trail oriented, although travel is similar to the IP-036:  (http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/productlist/21.html)

Not trying to hijack the thread but it looks like Peter is offering the same frame. I've dealt with both companies and have had great luck with both. But I would definitely go with XMCarbonspeed if the frames were the same.
http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1481

[Midwest-MTBer]

+1 to buying the 036 from Peter. If you can afford it I'd suggest carbon rims too. It's insane the difference having a light wheelset makes for climbing and accelerating. If money is no object I'd go with DT Swiss 350 hubs and get the 36 tooth star ratchet upgrade. I'm a huge fan of my 036! It's not a super cheap build, but you get a much better bike than what you would at that price from a big brand.

[alexdi]

FYI, I found the rear triangle flex with the CS-036 problematic at a riding weight of around 180. Any significant pedal torque would twist the linkage and cause the top of the rear wheel to offset a half-inch or more to the right. Chain rub was constant as a result. (I'm certain this is intrinsic to the model. I replaced and retorqued the chainstay, upper and lower bearings, and spacers, to no improvement.) Note also that the CS-036 and Workswell 108 are single-pivot designs, so they're best paired with a suspension lockout system if you intend to ride out of the saddle.

I would suggest buying a used Felt. You can find carbon versions, fully built with decent kit, for under 2K. You'll be out around $800 for a CS-036 frame, plus another $200 or $300 for a decent shock. The savings over a used rig are marginal and you won't get much warranty support from the Chinese vendors anyway. If you're really XC-oriented, I think Chinese hardtail frames are a considerably better value.

[OffRoadTriGuy]

FYI, I found the rear triangle flex with the CS-036 problematic at a riding weight of around 180. Any significant pedal torque would twist the linkage and cause the top of the rear wheel to offset a half-inch or more to the right. Chain rub was constant as a result. (I'm certain this is intrinsic to the model. I replaced and retorqued the chainstay, upper and lower bearings, and spacers, to no improvement.) Note also that the CS-036 and Workswell 108 are single-pivot designs, so they're best paired with a suspension lockout system if you intend to ride out of the saddle.

I would suggest buying a used Felt. You can find carbon versions, fully built with decent kit, for under 2K. You'll be out around $800 for a CS-036 frame, plus another $200 or $300 for a decent shock. The savings over a used rig are marginal and you won't get much warranty support from the Chinese vendors anyway. If you're really XC-oriented, I think Chinese hardtail frames are a considerably better value.

I saw issues with flex and another user posted about sex bolt issues so i guess I will look into that. I have a hardtail Felt Nine 1 right now and while it is an amazing bike the riding in Arizona and Xterra is much more full suspension oriented. While I agree that overall I may be faster on a hardtail, if my legs are totally shelled at the end then the run is gonna be a rough one.

Is it a common issue for the frames to be very flexy?

[alexdi]

I can't speak to other Chinese frames, but I've manipulated the rear wheels on many brand bikes (including Trek's carbon Superfly, the frame with the geometry this one duplicates) and they've all been considerably stiffer than the CS-036. My impression is that the Chinese don't spend as much time optimizing the carbon layup and don't use the highest-modulus carbon that you'll typically see when a major brand attempts similarly skinny stays.

Superior full-suspension rides are all over EBay in the $1000-$2000 range. (Cannondale's 2012-2016 Scalpel is another one with very similar geometry to check out.) The $700+ for this frame isn't as appealing when you factor the cost of the fork, shock, drivetrain, and various contact points. Consider also that the brand frames are likely to pedal better. The CS-036 benefits significantly from lockouts for out-of-the-saddle efforts.