Author Topic: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy  (Read 83238 times)

Sitar_Ned

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #195 on: May 29, 2020, 08:33:23 AM »
Not trying to be rude, but what does this mean?  Are they actually capable of manufacturing this frame currently?  Have they even built/tested their design?  Speaking only for myself, I'm interested, but I'd like some idea of the timeframe.  Are we talking in the next 3 months?  The next 6 months?

Not rude at all. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a rough timeframe.

PoorestKid

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #196 on: May 29, 2020, 08:50:55 AM »
I would like to be put down for a

Size: Large (Santa Cruz's sizing XL, did I understand the conversion correctly?)
Color: What exactly are our options?
Location: California USA

I understand the situation/circumstance but I am still super excited to see more pictures.

eminius

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #197 on: May 29, 2020, 02:27:30 PM »
Not trying to be rude, but what does this mean?  Are they actually capable of manufacturing this frame currently?  Have they even built/tested their design?  Speaking only for myself, I'm interested, but I'd like some idea of the timeframe.  Are we talking in the next 3 months?  The next 6 months?

Not rude at all. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a rough timeframe.

I AGREE...this is becoming ridiculous..55 people want to order frame of which they only see plastic 3D print..i am still hoping for the best but this is very unprofessional  Mr.Eddy!

GuitsBoy

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #198 on: May 29, 2020, 03:08:44 PM »
It looks like quite a few of you have never ordered a Chinese carbon frame before, let alone in the middle of a global pandemic.  There's not as much info as buying a frame from the US or UK, etc.  You largely have to base your purchase on other users' reviews.  Or in this case, since its a new frame, largely based on the manufacturers previous track record.

I urge you guys to look up Chinese Carbon Frame Manufacturing on youtube.  Theres a good video showing how road frames are built.  I dont want to post a direct link since it showcases a competitor to Haideli, but needless to say, an awful lot of design and development work goes into creating these molds and frames.  Its not something that just happens in a couple of weeks.  Once a prototype has been built (I assume we are at this stage) then tooling for mass production begins.  Enormously heavy blocks of metal need to be milled out to perfect specs to create the molds.  Templates for the hundreds of shapes and lengths of carbon fiber material have to be created and cataloged so the same pieces can be cut over and over again.  Air bladders need to be produced for the various sections.  All those hundreds of carbon fiber strips need to be assembled around the air bladder, put in the mold, and that needs to go in the kiln, baked, and then cooled just to produce the sub components.  Then the sub pieces need to be assembled.  Rear triangle, front triangle, bottom bracket section, etc.  Then those pieces need to be epoxied together.  Then finally the frames need to be filled, surfaced and painted.  Hopefully some testing is done somewhere along the line too.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot that goes into it.  The virus has set factories back considerably, and a 55 order group purchase is probably the factory's smallest order.  They are likely producing hundreds or even thousands of frames for bike companies that are clamoring to get more inventory after selling out in the US.  The virus has caused a huge back log, and work is further hindered by protective measures to keep workers safe, and to keep the virus from re-surging.  Development of this new frame likely has to be juggled and fit in between keeping the big customers happy.  Unfortunately all this is par for the course, and is the price you pay for getting a frame for one sixth what you might usually spend on a name brand.

Have patience.  Once tooling is completed, I'm sure we will get some additional detailed photos, and all the final specs / measurements / cable routing details, etc.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 03:11:53 PM by GuitsBoy »

eminius

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #199 on: May 29, 2020, 04:12:08 PM »
my patience is gone...considering COVID19 i just received parts from China in EU in 18 days...i will try to buy another frame while waiting... http://www.ltbikes.com/product/100.html
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 06:25:50 AM by eminius »

zerozed

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #200 on: May 29, 2020, 10:18:15 PM »
It looks like quite a few of you have never ordered a Chinese carbon frame before, let alone in the middle of a global pandemic.  There's not as much info as buying a frame from the US or UK, etc.  You largely have to base your purchase on other users' reviews.  Or in this case, since its a new frame, largely based on the manufacturers previous track record.

I urge you guys to look up Chinese Carbon Frame Manufacturing on youtube.  Theres a good video showing how road frames are built.  I dont want to post a direct link since it showcases a competitor to Haideli, but needless to say, an awful lot of design and development work goes into creating these molds and frames.  Its not something that just happens in a couple of weeks.  Once a prototype has been built (I assume we are at this stage) then tooling for mass production begins.  Enormously heavy blocks of metal need to be milled out to perfect specs to create the molds.  Templates for the hundreds of shapes and lengths of carbon fiber material have to be created and cataloged so the same pieces can be cut over and over again.  Air bladders need to be produced for the various sections.  All those hundreds of carbon fiber strips need to be assembled around the air bladder, put in the mold, and that needs to go in the kiln, baked, and then cooled just to produce the sub components.  Then the sub pieces need to be assembled.  Rear triangle, front triangle, bottom bracket section, etc.  Then those pieces need to be epoxied together.  Then finally the frames need to be filled, surfaced and painted.  Hopefully some testing is done somewhere along the line too.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot that goes into it.  The virus has set factories back considerably, and a 55 order group purchase is probably the factory's smallest order.  They are likely producing hundreds or even thousands of frames for bike companies that are clamoring to get more inventory after selling out in the US.  The virus has caused a huge back log, and work is further hindered by protective measures to keep workers safe, and to keep the virus from re-surging.  Development of this new frame likely has to be juggled and fit in between keeping the big customers happy.  Unfortunately all this is par for the course, and is the price you pay for getting a frame for one sixth what you might usually spend on a name brand.

Have patience.  Once tooling is completed, I'm sure we will get some additional detailed photos, and all the final specs / measurements / cable routing details, etc.

I have ordered frames from China, in fact my most recent ICAN frame came during the pandemic.  That aside, the issue is the lack of any meaningful feedback on the status of this frame.  At this point the only thing we've seen are some renders of a Hightower clone.  We have no idea if this frame is out of the design stage.  This is an important point for Eddy to address IMHO.  I'm not going to be upset if they aren't anywhere near being able to produce them, but for those of us who are actually ready & able to purchase this summer, we need to know if this group buy is viable or if it isn't.  Eddy hasn't given us ANY information about the timeframe.  It could literally be 12+ months from now before this design actually gets produced depending on which stage of design/production/testing it's in. 

If the frame isn't anywhere near production, then talk of a group-buy is premature.  Again, potential customers just need Eddy to give them some useful information so we can decide if we want to wait this out or if we want to buy something else.


eminius

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #201 on: May 30, 2020, 06:24:33 AM »
It looks like quite a few of you have never ordered a Chinese carbon frame before, let alone in the middle of a global pandemic.  There's not as much info as buying a frame from the US or UK, etc.  You largely have to base your purchase on other users' reviews.  Or in this case, since its a new frame, largely based on the manufacturers previous track record.

I urge you guys to look up Chinese Carbon Frame Manufacturing on youtube.  Theres a good video showing how road frames are built.  I dont want to post a direct link since it showcases a competitor to Haideli, but needless to say, an awful lot of design and development work goes into creating these molds and frames.  Its not something that just happens in a couple of weeks.  Once a prototype has been built (I assume we are at this stage) then tooling for mass production begins.  Enormously heavy blocks of metal need to be milled out to perfect specs to create the molds.  Templates for the hundreds of shapes and lengths of carbon fiber material have to be created and cataloged so the same pieces can be cut over and over again.  Air bladders need to be produced for the various sections.  All those hundreds of carbon fiber strips need to be assembled around the air bladder, put in the mold, and that needs to go in the kiln, baked, and then cooled just to produce the sub components.  Then the sub pieces need to be assembled.  Rear triangle, front triangle, bottom bracket section, etc.  Then those pieces need to be epoxied together.  Then finally the frames need to be filled, surfaced and painted.  Hopefully some testing is done somewhere along the line too.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot that goes into it.  The virus has set factories back considerably, and a 55 order group purchase is probably the factory's smallest order.  They are likely producing hundreds or even thousands of frames for bike companies that are clamoring to get more inventory after selling out in the US.  The virus has caused a huge back log, and work is further hindered by protective measures to keep workers safe, and to keep the virus from re-surging.  Development of this new frame likely has to be juggled and fit in between keeping the big customers happy.  Unfortunately all this is par for the course, and is the price you pay for getting a frame for one sixth what you might usually spend on a name brand.

Have patience.  Once tooling is completed, I'm sure we will get some additional detailed photos, and all the final specs / measurements / cable routing details, etc.

I have ordered frames from China, in fact my most recent ICAN frame came during the pandemic.  That aside, the issue is the lack of any meaningful feedback on the status of this frame.  At this point the only thing we've seen are some renders of a Hightower clone.  We have no idea if this frame is out of the design stage.  This is an important point for Eddy to address IMHO.  I'm not going to be upset if they aren't anywhere near being able to produce them, but for those of us who are actually ready & able to purchase this summer, we need to know if this group buy is viable or if it isn't.  Eddy hasn't given us ANY information about the timeframe.  It could literally be 12+ months from now before this design actually gets produced depending on which stage of design/production/testing it's in. 

If the frame isn't anywhere near production, then talk of a group-buy is premature.  Again, potential customers just need Eddy to give them some useful information so we can decide if we want to wait this out or if we want to buy something else.
Well sad!

GuitsBoy

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #202 on: May 30, 2020, 06:55:33 AM »
Zerozed, did you miss the actual build photos of the rear triangle and BB area from a month or so back?  We have more than just a render.  But we have not yest seen a completed frame.

You guys aren't wrong by wanting to get status updates and know the rough timeline they expect to be able to deliver the frame.  I get it, and I do agree.

However, throwing out words like "ridiculous" and "unprofessional" seem a bit inappropriate in my opinion.  From the very beginning, we knew this was a pre-production frame, during a time of global crisis.  The frame was already months behind schedule when the group purchase was first organized.

If it were me, and I urgently needed a new frame sooner than later, I would have been exploring other options from the beginning.  If you're a little more flexible on time and can weather the delays, this is still a great way to shave a couple hundred bucks off an already well priced frame.


RobertRinAustin

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #203 on: May 30, 2020, 08:15:00 AM »
throwing out words like "ridiculous" and "unprofessional" seem a bit inappropriate in my opinion.  From the very beginning, we knew this was a pre-production frame, during a time of global crisis. 
This.

If you're unhappy, move along,. It's a voluntary group buy. No need to trash a respected vendor in a truly unprecedented time of global economic upheavel.

chetosmachine

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #204 on: May 30, 2020, 11:53:13 AM »
Total agree on this, those who dont want or can't wait longer, have a huge market to choose. I am enjoying my P9 a lot these days. May be i dont ride this am831 this year. But i dont see the unprofesionalism here. Hey, nobody stopping anyone from going to a Santa Cruz shop/seller and buy a Hightower, which is very very close to this 831. But easily available.

scourge

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #205 on: May 30, 2020, 07:46:03 PM »
Should we expect more from a company whose website features their new 2018 frames?

Jotegr

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #206 on: May 30, 2020, 10:55:26 PM »
I'm happy to wait a long time for these. No rush here. If they're cool, they're cool. A chinese frame in this stage of development should just be considered a fun side project anyway!



Edit: I'd rather Haideli takes their time with this one than rush it out.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:36:17 PM by Jotegr »

Iztok

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #207 on: May 31, 2020, 01:50:00 PM »
I would like to be put down for a

Size: M (Santa Cruz's sizing L, did I understand the conversion correctly?)
Color: ?
Location: Slovenia, EU

I understand the situation/circumstance but I am still super excited to see more pictures.

tuna

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #208 on: May 31, 2020, 10:21:14 PM »
Yes.

Size: Small
Color: 8 Green
Location: Houston, TX 77006

Sitar_Ned

Re: Chinese SC/AM831 Group Buy
« Reply #209 on: June 01, 2020, 09:59:17 AM »
Personally, I don't mind waiting until the end of the year if need be and I've come to expect less than stellar communication so for my own personal frame... no big deal. This is the frame I want so I would be waiting for it even without the group buy. I really just contact Eddy for updates for the sake of the group.

Thus far, we have 60 that have verbally opted in and I'm sure we'll have more by the time the frame is actually ready. I'll just ping everyone via email when that time comes and we should have the 30 minimum quantity. It will be a good deal for those of us that don't mind waiting, but if you're on any kind of time crunch to get a bike then it's probably a good idea to look at other options.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 10:01:40 AM by Sitar_Ned »