Geometrie for racer Ican A9 or Velobuild R-099

[Hans66]

What is the best option geometrie wise to choose.

I'm looking for a hard core racer!

I'm opting for a Ican Aero A9 or a Velobuild R-099/ R-168(2021 frame)

Prices:
Ican frame $855,-- shipping $120,-- total $ 975,--

Velobuild $ 479,-- shipping $ 141,-- total $ 620,--


looks like the Velobuild has a 90 degree angle stem so it is more upwards,but I don't think that there s a lot of difference between them exept the price 

Please let me know why the Ican or the Velobuild is the right option ?

[Matt_C]

 I can't speak for velobuild but I have built multiple A9s and they have all been rock solid. Had a friend of mine test ride my A9 yesterday, he usually rides a madone and he said he would take the A9 over a madone for crit racing any day. Although the madone is known to be a bit of a "boat". He did say the A9 felt "stiffer and harsher" than the madone but the madone has ISO speed for comfort.

[Hans66]

I can't speak for velobuild but I have built multiple A9s and they have all been rock solid. Had a friend of mine test ride my A9 yesterday, he usually rides a madone and he said he would take the A9 over a madone for crit racing any day. Although the madone is known to be a bit of a "boat". He did say the A9 felt "stiffer and harsher" than the madone but the madone has ISO speed for comfort.

Thank you Matt, I believe the A9 is a real good frame but is it worth the money against the Velobuild ? I think no one knows this answer unless you can compare them one the same track, equal setup....

[Matt_C]

I have commented on this before. The quality of the finishing on the A9 is very high. For example Iv seen loads of issues with the finishing on TanTan frames. I have experienced none of this on my A9 frames. The extra money also goes to a much nicer handlebar if you opt for the same one on my bike (same as a ACR vision metron) which alone is worth the price difference)

[FHS]

The extra money also goes to a much nicer handlebar if you opt for the same one on my bike (same as a ACR vision metron) which alone is worth the price difference)

This.

I have the TanTan version of the Velobuild 099 and, If I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now, I probably would shell out the extra cash for the A9 just to get the ACR Metron set-up out of the box. The HB-010 handlebar/stem, or whatever Velobuild calls it, is a real pain in the ass. Having installed just parts of the ACR headset as replacements for the stock headset parts, it's already a better set-up than stock.

That being said, I like the frame, but, I have no basis for comparison to the A9 as far as racing goes.

[Hans66]

This.

I have the TanTan version of the Velobuild 099 and, If I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now, I probably would shell out the extra cash for the A9 just to get the ACR Metron set-up out of the box. The HB-010 handlebar/stem, or whatever Velobuild calls it, is a real pain in the ass. Having installed just parts of the ACR headset as replacements for the stock headset parts, it's already a better set-up than stock.

That being said, I like the frame, but, I have no basis for comparison to the A9 as far as racing goes.

Thats a real good point Matt and FHS, can you explain me what so much better is about the ACR headset ?

[FHS]

Well, I have the FSA ACR headset so I can't say if that's what comes with the A9. If the A9 set-up is not the same, the genuine FSA ACR headset is a worthwhile $50 investment. The FSA compression plug doesn't slip and is definitely longer than the TanTan plug, which is most likely the same as the Velobuild set-up. The FSA plug supports the stem better than the stock plug. I feel like all the FSA materials are just higher quality than the stock TanTan components for sure.

Way more important than the individual components, though, is the way the FSA headset/Metron handlebar system works together. Instead of trying to cram all the the tubing and cable housing through one narrow choke point through the compression ring, the ACR system routes the front hydraulic brake tubing through the top of the stem, over the top of the steerer tube, through the compression plug, then down through the tube/fork. I have to believe the FSA/Metron system is easier to work with and won't cause the same problems with tubing/cable routing.

I'm just not willing, at this point, to fork over $400-$500 dollar's for a set of Metron handlebars to fit on my $550 frame and budgetish build. Along those same budget lines, I suppose if you're gonna go with electronic shifting, it won't matter as much as far as I'm concerned.

[Matt_C]

Yeah the ICAN set up is the exact same as the official ACR system. A video speaks a thousand words: the headset starts around 4mins in. There is a store on AliExpress called "rolling stone" selling the exact same handlebar for around £200.

[Snacks]

I do have to say, the ACR metron set up does look real nice. if i cared more about form over function id have gone that way but what i have works and it was great at the price i paid. (not saying the ACR setup doesnt have function , just that they both do the job)

I  may have been lucky but i have had no issues with my handlebar set up from velobuild. my compression plug hasnt slipped and theres no play in the headset.  although it does feel cheap, sometimes cheap works. I did consider upgrading to an FSA headset but decided to do it down the line if i ever have problems with mine and need a replacement since mine works well right now. 

other than the cockpit i cant imagine much difference between the frames. i think most factories are doing a layup of the carbon in the same way with EPS tech and being that its pretty much the same frame i wouldnt think one is more stiff than the other.

[FHS]

There is a store on AliExpress called "rolling stone" selling the exact same handlebar for around £200.

I saw that. I was soooooooooooooooo tempted. Still tempted. Maybe, by thr time i need.to replace hoses.and housinh. Hoping the price drops.

[Snacks]

I saw that. I was soooooooooooooooo tempted. Still tempted. Maybe, by thr time i need.to replace hoses.and housinh. Hoping the price drops.

oh i completely missed that! Do you have a link ? i tried looking but couldnt find it. Definitely want to put that on my wishlist for later 

[FHS]

Hmm. I did another search but couldn't find it in the $200 range. I think I mistook another model for what Rolling Stone calls their FSA ACR compatible "Hider" handlebars. The Hider is listed for $350 ish.

[Matt_C]

Maybe the price has gone up and I am working in £GBP which will be lower anyway. Maybe contact ICAN and try to buy one. I have 5 of them in my house right now but they are all for frames... Just a shame I can't get groupsets 

[FHS]

Apologies, my tendency to see everything in USD. 

It is nice to know that there is a cheaperish option. Heck the more I read these A9 threads, though, the more I think that the only way I'm going to scratch this itch is to just get an A9. 

[Hans66]

What about the handlebar, i see two types. Which one is the one they selling when you order the frame now?
 The A9 HB017
https://icancycling.com/collections/handlebar/products/integrated-handlebar-hb017
And the one on Matt's bike