Velobuild VB-R-218

[maza]

Thanks. "Close the gap" looks like a very solid and elegant solution but I am not sure if I want to pay 60 euros for a Garmin mount with bell. You can find cheap chinese copies on Aliexpress (like five times cheaper) but sadly I only found versions for either standard aero bars or normal round bars. I cannot find a chinese version for Most iTalon bars.

Btw does the bell of the "Close the gap" sound good and loud enough? Are you satisfied with it? Did you have any problems mounting it on this frame bars since they are just a copy of the Most original?

I had the aliexpress aero version. Didn't last more than few rides until it broke. Bought the Close the gap version. Worth every penny. Solid build quality and the bell is easier to use and better.

[JonMS]

Got some new shoes for the purple bike. I asked the seller to ship without PCW branding but these are what showed up. I will likely remove the decals eventually.

[Serge_K]

Thanks, I've reached out.

In case you haven't seen, Peter has since posted a new thread for the frame on the forum. T47 BB & 50mm tyre clearance.

[blackpyros]

Bike almost finished, but I have issues with a headset play. Any recommendations on what I should do to fix this, as I am not really familiar with headset shenanigans. Some background:
- I've already replaced the original short compression plug with an extra long version (80 mm, not that I expected it will help, I did it mostly for other reasons).
- Also already tightened the plug to max recommended torque for this frame (6 Nm). The integrated handlebar with carbon paste applied tightened with the grub screws to around 3,5 Nm fits firmly already but I guess that's not relevant for a headset play issue?
- The cap on top of the stem I tightened with low torque (around 2,5 Nm) as I believe that's just for the cap to not move and it's not important for the headset itself or am I wrong? (The manual for Dogma says to preload to 2 Nm and then 6 Nm max, but I seriously don't understand why, as the cap is installed as a last part to just cover the stem, so why even preload it? I think the expander plug has to be preloaded before installing the stem or am I wrong again?
- My uneducated guess is the headset play may have something to do with the fact the bottom bearing didn't fit the headtube firmly and there is some play because the headtube seems to be a little wider than it should at the lower part. The upper bearing fits firmly. Top and bottom bearings on this frame are interchangeable and when I swapped them then again bottom bearing is loose and top fits firmly. This means that bearings should be both fine and correct diameter.
- To make the bottom bearing fit firmly too I wrapped it with electrical tape to increase its diameter slightly. This helped with the play during installation but maybe it's not enough after it. Again, I don't really understand how this thing even holds together and why the fork doesn't fall down from the frame...

So what do you guys think? Should I apply glue on the outer side of the bottom bearing like Loctite 638 or should I do something completely different first? And is it safe to ride with a headset play, at least for some shorter test ride or should I resist the temptation to try my new bike?

[Serge_K]

we should have a thread on headset play. there are YT videos that explain the mechanics of it. I think you have to tighten the top cap, because that's what compresses everything. basically, the top cap pulls the plug up (which is why you need space between the steerer & the top cap, that's the space that gets compressed).
When $hit's tight, your plug can slide up the steerer before there's enough system compression, so keep an eye for that if you have play.
I think people sometimes use plumber's tape (teflon) for loose bearings, electrical tape sounds ghettoer / maybe too flexy?
Btw, if your bearing really is swimming in its hole, then post a video, you may get a new frame. Some play might be acceptable, but if they botched it, they botched it.
It's safe to try the bike with a little play. Don't over do it, dont take it offroad, dont go down a mountain pass, be sensible.

[neobiker]

You might try to add a spacer to check if the fork was not cut too long. It happened to me twice.

[blackpyros]

Just tightening the top cap to max torque 6 Nm didn't help either.

You might try to add a spacer to check if the fork was not cut too long. It happened to me twice.

I don't think my fork was cut too long but just to be sure, how big space should be between bottom of the cap and top of the plug? And should these two touch after fully tightening the top cap?

Also I just broke both of the caps I have.  The first one was an original from Velobuild - some aluminium shit that broke in two parts before even applying 6 Nm with the original socket head cap screw in left. The right one I got with the additional spacers I bought made from carbon developed cracks and is likely not safe to use anymore. It has a hole for a countersunk head screw I had to buy separately. Bought a titanium one. Didn't fit the cap precisely which may be a reason why cracks occurred when applying 6 Nm torque. Seems like I will need a third one. Any recommendations for a good Aliexpress one? The caps are starting to become consumables and I am starting to become frustrated...

[blackpyros]

Already ordered 2 more caps with screws they declare to fit 100%. Let's see...

I think people sometimes use plumber's tape (teflon) for loose bearings, electrical tape sounds ghettoer / maybe too flexy?
Btw, if your bearing really is swimming in its hole, then post a video, you may get a new frame. Some play might be acceptable, but if they botched it, they botched it.
It's safe to try the bike with a little play. Don't over do it, dont take it offroad, dont go down a mountain pass, be sensible.

I wouldn't say the bearing was swimming but without the tape it was loose enough to drop from the frame in Earth's gravitational field... The play was corrected by just one layer of that very thin electrical tape...
Already ordered PTFE tape but to apply it I will need to remove the fork from the frame, thus disconnecting the hydraulic hose from the left lever and possibly need to buy a new olive. I use SRAM brakes and levers.

[JonMS]

- The cap on top of the stem I tightened with low torque (around 2,5 Nm) as I believe that's just for the cap to not move and it's not important for the headset itself or am I wrong? (The manual for Dogma says to preload to 2 Nm and then 6 Nm max, but I seriously don't understand why, as the cap is installed as a last part to just cover the stem, so why even preload it? I think the expander plug has to be preloaded before installing the stem or am I wrong again?

Is there enough of a gap with your steerer tube and top cap? There needs to be a gap so everything can squeeze together. Something akin the my attached image.
I am using a Pinarello compression plug and had to sand the VB top cap to allow enough space for everything to compress. I also swapped both bikes over to OEM Pinarello top caps as they fit the handlebars better looks-wise.

The order of install should be

1. Torque compression plug to required nM
2. Install fork to frame
3. Spacers etc.
4. Handlebars
5. Tighten top cap FIRST to compress everything on itself
6. Set handlebars straight then tighten grub screws

[blackpyros]

Is there enough of a gap with your steerer tube and top cap? There needs to be a gap so everything can squeeze together. Something akin the my attached image.
I am using a Pinarello compression plug and had to sand the VB top cap to allow enough space for everything to compress.

Your image is not very helpful as it's a star nut inside an aluminium steerer. Carbon steerers use expansion plugs.
I don't really know how big the gap should be. Dogma manual says to cut the steerer 5 mm below the top of the stem, which I did and it looks like in the image.

VB top cap is shit. Not only is it made of fragile aluminium that breaks easily, it's also very thick - double the size of a carbon cap I got with additional spacers I bought. No wonder you had to sand it down if you didn't want to cut the steerer so low that the top grub screw would push into air instead of into the steerer.

[JonMS]

Your image is not very helpful as it's a star nut inside an aluminium steerer. Carbon steerers use expansion plugs.
I don't really know how big the gap should be. Dogma manual says to cut the steerer 5 mm below the top of the stem, which I did and it looks like in the image.

VB top cap is shit. Not only is it made of fragile aluminium that breaks easily, it's also very thick - double the size of a carbon cap I got with additional spacers I bought. No wonder you had to sand it down if you didn't want to cut the steerer so low that the top grub screw would push into air instead of into the steerer.

lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.

Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?

[Sebastian]

You probably have spare split spacers lying around, right? Use one the to stack your stem a tad higher and tighten everything down and see if the play is gone. If yes, then your fork steerer still is a tad too long. If not, then something else is going on.

[Ar26]

I leave 4mm of distance between the top of the expander and the top cap for the compression of the headset. Watch this video YT to adjust your headset :  "BBInfinite TECH TIP: Adjust a Headset Like a Boss"

[blackpyros]

lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.
Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?

I will try the advice of increasing the gap by one 5mm spacer and see how it goes. Also I can't really follow your steps exactly as I would need to disconnect the front hydraulic hose to remove the fork from the headtube but I guess it's fine installing and fully tightening the plug after fork and spacers are already installed.

But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter. I will also try to apply some carbon paste on the plug to make sure that thing doesn't move up inside of the steerer when tightening the top cap.

EDIT: OK I tried to add the spacer and it indeed helped. No more headset play. Allright, time to shorten the steerer. Wanted to shorten it anyway to remove all the spacers. I was too much conservative with them. I noticed with 3,5 cm spacers my handlebar is almost 5 cm higher than my current bike. Without them it will also look much better. Thanks everyone for help, especially those that told me my steerer might be too long.

[Sebastian]

But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter.

Just to clarify: Of course it makes a difference. Tightening down the top cap does nothing if you’ve already clamped your stem to the steerer. The top cap/expander assembly is there to press the stem down whilst pulling the fork up and therefore put preload on the upper and lower headset bearing. If the stem can’t move cuz it’s clamped to the steerer, you won’t get any preload on the headset. And sure, if you then go on and tighten down the top cap more and more, it might even break. Though in almost twenty years of biking I have never managed to kill a top cap like that. You might have had particularly bad quality ones.