LTWOO ER9 & ERX - Electronic groepsets

[BeR]

Do you think that the new version can compete with a Shimano 105 or Ultegra Di2 groupset ?

Which crankset / cassette do you use ?

[boxof13]

Do you think that the new version can compete with a Shimano 105 or Ultegra Di2 groupset ?

Which crankset / cassette do you use ?

Given that you can get the set for reasonable price, I think this can easily compete with 105. I got the eRX for ~$500 after tax, which is still less than what you would pay for 105. Ltwoo needs to drop a bit of weight and add more features like extra button to compete with Ultegra. In terms of functionality, I'd argue the new eRX is already much better than 105 with variable speed, per cog micro adjust, USB-C charging, user replaceable batteries, over the air firmware upgrade (I believe 105 still does not support this either).

The new eRX will be paired with Elilee x310 crankset and ZTTO ultralight cassette. Previously, I was running Racework crankset and Dura-Ace cassette which worked flawlessly. I would expect nothing less from the new combination.

[BeR]

Well... Death and taxes... Fairness / level playing field... It's not lame. I can't say I like it, but it's something you can order from the toilet to your door in one click. It's competing against bike shops and legit online retailers, subject to VAT, taxes, customer friendly return terms, warranty and so on. I'm all in favour of cutting out middlemen that add little to no value. However, if you start cheating taxes, it's not fair anymore.
The concept of tariffs isn't crazy either. Unfortunately we know that public money is mostly spent poorly, but in spirit, i support the idea of being taxed a little bit on such purchases so that the money goes towards something useful. Idk if it's creating a bit of industry, bike paths, bike events, bike handling / maintenance classes, but in the spirit of fairness, we shouldn't be able to buy shit abroad and pay no VAT / taxes when businesses around us are subject to both taxes and VAT.
Now obviously if there was the option not to pay VAT, i'd pick it, but the idea remains


We've broken 4 or 5 ER9 RDs, i stopped counting honestly. But we got early versions. I think the consensus is that when it's working (ie not broken) and well calibrated, it's great.
Caveats: price and relative value. The new ERX on panda podium is 650$, for eg. At this price point, compared to 105 di2, for eg, well... The idea is that i recommend ltwoo if and only if the relative value is a no brainer. And that's a function of jurisdiction, time and so on.
Racing performance: i don't race, and i avoid shifting in shitty situations. So I'm not changing 3 cogs, switching to the big ring, out of the saddle, uphill, suddenly, and panicked. aka, the sort of thing that you do when you race. It's important to flag, because i heard very recent horror stories of pros racing ltwoo er9/erx groups and getting dropped chains, mechanical failures and the likes. I am not saying that ltwoo can't be used for racing, but dropping chains under peak torque is scary and dangerous, and it's not like my previous bikes (shimano 105 mech & sram red mech) would necessarily perform flawlessly under such conditions either (in fact my sram red FD was always a POS). So, i'm not testing that, and the reality is very few people will really have good intel on that.

Bottom line: if there's a signficant price gap vs shimano / sram, and if you're going to be kind to the kit (it's absolutely a SKILL to know how to shift for best shifting performance, whether you're on LTWOO or shimano/sram), ltwoo probably makes sense.
If not, then you have to think a bit harder as the answer becomes less clear.

And i guess, let's mention weather proofing and niche uses like ultra distance racing, bike packing, and that sort of things. If you're going to do exotic stuff like commute in the rain every day or spend 3 weeks in the Atlas mountains with a sleeping bag, then you're probably risk adverse enough to consider bomb proof setups, and not this.


cassette / chainring: you can use anything. from experience, 11s seems to shift better than 12s, which makes sense: same width, narrower cogs, more accuracy needed on 12 than 11 to shift well. I recommend 11s on these groups. If you're on 2x, 12s is a bit of a gimmick to sell new bikes. 11s has cheaper parts and is more dependable, easier to calibrate.
Do expect to spend a significant amount of time over several rides to really dial in the shifting. And if you knock the derailleurs, or drop a chain or something like that, expect to re-calibrate stuff. It's not plug and play.
To be fair, a friend bought an sworks SL7 with ultegra di2 (might be DA, even), i think he fixed a puncture, knocked the derailleur, and hasn't re-calibrated his gears properly either, so his bike makes clicking noises. So his experience is that di2 is not plug and play either.

Last piece of rant: in europe, the battery for di2, which is a plastic sleeve with 2 batteries in it, just that, on sale, is over 150 eur. Shimano, from the bottom of my heart, go fuck yourself.

Indeed, what is lame is not the VAT but the fact that the amount of VAT changes a lot in the european countries. More than 100 euros between France and Belgium for example on a 900 € item.

Thanks for the explanation about the groupset.

[Avalius]

Would you mind checking if you can order now? go all the way to "pay" page, then ofc dont press pay. what happens is that at the last page, i get a >150 eur error related message. afaik, the issue wasnt there a few weeks ago.

Checked, can order from 80 designer store. Ltwoo official never worked here.
Belgium also adjusts price and than it's import duties.

[Alastair_S1D]

Well I've now put about 7 hours on my gen  3 eRX on its current charge with the XTAR 1200 batteries. So far the app still reports 90% capacity after those 7 hours and I have had no mid-ride shutdowns so far.

I think my charger wasn't up to the task. They only gave me a cable in the box so I ended up using an old cellphone charger. After closer inspection said charger was only rated at 5v 2A.

So I went and bought a charger that could do 10v since both those cells in series charged is around 8.4v. And so far I think everything is good?

enjoying my eRX gen 3 tremendously. But as a recent convert over from the mechanical side of things I wonder if alot of ex mechanical users feel the way I do. I miss the clicks and clunks of mechanical shifting. I would describe it to a car enthusiast / petrol head as the same sort of feeling of going from a fully manual transmission to a semi-automatic paddle shift. Yes TECHNICALLY you are still driving it in a manual capacity but it's not the same. I feel electric shifting removes some of the character and some of the soul of the bike.

But I had no choice really since my bike is designed specifically for electric. I managed to make mechanical cables fit into the frame but it was a nightmare. And after 10K kms it was time to replace cables, the thought terrifies me so I chickened and got eRX.

It shifts amazingly quick compared to mechanical. I don't know how it compares to other electric options. But for a mechanical guy this is fast. And once you've fine tuned in the app it's perfect everytime. No missed shifts because you didn't throw the lever far enough to catch the next tooth in the shifter or anything like that just perfect. Sometimes I have to look to confirmed I have actually shifted because it's so smooth and precise I haven't felt the actual shift occur.

In other words. I love it. It's great. I do miss the character of a mechanical drive. But other than that this is awesome!
Brakes are good too.

End of my little review


Now on the gen 3 shifters. Anyone notice they get quite rattley? I get a lot of rattle from the buttons I think. Any one got any home hacks or remedy for that?

[amacal1]

 I do miss the character of a mechanical drive. But other than that this is awesome!

Cassette tapes had "character" too, that little warble-y sound they would do with high frequencies and other such artifacts. Though it was funny to listen to my old Journey mix tape while Steve Perry belted over some high pitched synth, I absolutely don't "miss" that being the only way to listen to music in my car. And, though my mechanical Ultegra is very good, electric shifting is just better 99 times out of 100. And, probably better that last time, too, but occasionally a big mechanical "clunk" followed by a perfect shift is fun, so 1/100 ain't bad!

[jonathanf2]

I was just riding my eGR gravel bike yesterday thinking how much better the shift buttons are versus the ver 1 eR9 shifters and how much more responsive the newer brake calipers are! I can just imagine the new ver 3 eR9/X is that much better in overall performance! Though is enough to justify a new purchase? 

[jonathanf2]

Here's a hi res photo of the new V3 eR9 for those interested. Courtesy of 80 Design Store! 

[toxin]

Just need one of these guys to include some satellite shifter compatibility and I'll jump on.

[jonathanf2]

Just need one of these guys to include some satellite shifter compatibility and I'll jump on.

That would be a game changer if someone would develop universal satellite shift buttons that would work across all the Chinese electronic groupsets. They could literally "Deepseek" the whole electronic groupset market.

[Sebastian]

It shifts amazingly quick compared to mechanical.

I appreciate electronic groupsets. But they still feel kind of gimmicky to me.
I like the ease of building with wireless groupsets. The tunability is cool, too. But quick I’ve actually found none of them. Di2 is the quickest. I’ve only ridden 11sp Di2 though. Er9 is slower. And Sam Rival is sloooow.

I often wonder how many people riding electronic these days have actually had the chance to compare this stuff to a perfectly tuned top tier mechanical system. Compared to my Record 12sp mechanical, every electronic group I’ve ridden is slower. Particularly in the upshifts. Electronic has less chance for misshifts and is easier to build. True. But quicker it is not.

But the way that frames go, it’s a moot point anyway. Not long and only custom frames will still accept derailleur cables, I guess.

[BeR]

I appreciate electronic groupsets. But they still feel kind of gimmicky to me.
I like the ease of building with wireless groupsets. The tunability is cool, too. But quick I’ve actually found none of them. Di2 is the quickest. I’ve only ridden 11sp Di2 though. Er9 is slower. And Sam Rival is sloooow.

I often wonder how many people riding electronic these days have actually had the chance to compare this stuff to a perfectly tuned top tier mechanical system. Compared to my Record 12sp mechanical, every electronic group I’ve ridden is slower. Particularly in the upshifts. Electronic has less chance for misshifts and is easier to build. True. But quicker it is not.

But the way that frames go, it’s a moot point anyway. Not long and only custom frames will still accept derailleur cables, I guess.

Just a little click with the finger.
But the most thing I like is the semi-syncronisation shifting.

[toxin]

That would be a game changer if someone would develop universal satellite shift buttons that would work across all the Chinese electronic groupsets. They could literally "Deepseek" the whole electronic groupset market.

It doesn't even have to be anything special. Shimano wired buttons are literally just the simplest binary buttons possible. Press button = complete circuit. You can literally make them at home.

[Alastair_S1D]

Cassette tapes had "character" too, that little warble-y sound they would do with high frequencies and other such artifacts. Though it was funny to listen to my old Journey mix tape while Steve Perry belted over some high pitched synth, I absolutely don't "miss" that being the only way to listen to music in my car. And, though my mechanical Ultegra is very good, electric shifting is just better 99 times out of 100. And, probably better that last time, too, but occasionally a big mechanical "clunk" followed by a perfect shift is fun, so 1/100 ain't bad!

I think comparing a bike groupset to a audio standard is a little disingenuous don't you? Like audio cassette tapes looking back were proper trash. I don't see how anyone could look back at those with fond memories. Same with VHS and other standards that converted over to digital. I think a manual transmission on a car compared to a semi-auto paddle shift is definitely more accurate? Both are great, but one is definitely better with shift speed etc. But one definitely has more soul. And that's probably why the manual tranny soldiers on in the hearts of car enthusiasts. (I won't ditch me manual even if you held a gun to my head)

[jonathanf2]

I think being able to tune a mechanical groupset should be a requisite before going electronic! 

I still prefer my Shimano mechanical front derailleur though. I feel like it's the biggest weakness of the LTwoo system. Maybe the newer V3 eR9/X is better, but my Shimano FD was always spot on. No need for a chain catcher. A pefectly tuned Shimano FD, just works!

I forgot to add, I have no clue why Ltwoo uses a narrow wide jockey wheel on the lower cage. Using a regular jockey wheel on the upper cage causes the chain to jump off the wheel if dumping gears. After swapping to Ultegra jockey wheels in the proper orientation, I was able to get better shifting and I was also able to get the cage closer to the cassette allowing for smoother shifting with my 11-34t cassette.