How do yall feel about the value of open mold road bikes vs mainstream brands?

[raisinberry777]

I honestly think the best option is to go with a mainstream second hand frameset and then build it up with your own "chinese" components.

Anyone that is going for whole bike builds is a super fred at this point since I would have to immediately replace the bars/stems (44cm lmao) and cranks (175mm lmao).
I also have a lot of wheels already so the wheels/tyres that come with it would go sitting in the corner.
If it comes with a powermeter i'd have to sell it since i already have powermeter.
The saddle is also useless since it won't be my preferred saddle.

At that point i bought a whole bike and only using the frame and the groupset.

This post illustrates an interesting point in that what is 'good value' changes with local market conditions.

Whether an open mould bike can be good value depends on what you're looking to get from it, and how that compares to local alternatives, particularly second-hand.

Here in Australia, ever since Shimano and SRAM prevented international retailers from selling their products into Australia, it's been much harder to get cheap groupsets. I first built a Chinese bike in 2014 and was able to get a great deal on the new (at the time) Shimano 105 5800 which I was able to import from the UK. There's been many reports of cheap closeout SRAM Force eTAP AXS D1 groupsets going cheaply in the EU and USA, but no such deals in Australia. Being unable to take advantage of this makes buying a Chinese frame relatively less appealing, since by the time I buy a groupset and wheels, I'm not so far off the price of a big-brand bike.

Rim brake bikes have also plummeted in price second-hand here - there'd be no point getting one from China any more. Late-model high end rim brake frames, particularly if they're not at the top level of desirability (for example, a Giant TCR, Focus Izalco Max or Merida Scultura) cost less than a new Chinese frame.

If L-Twoo and Sensah make some good groupsets then it could swing the balance in favour of Chinese parts again. I'd be interested in doing a Hygge/L-Twoo/Elite Wheels/Magene PES build to sneak in a carbon disc integrated bar frame, electronic groupset, power meter and high-end wheels for ~$2300 USD, but it feels like a pretty big risk to take.

There's still plenty of good use for me for Chinese products - particularly getting kit for fairly standard rim-brake bikes. Being able to get a good quality carbon seatpost, saddle and bars costs a ton with western brands, AliExpress is now full of great products on that front.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Yeah location is definitely key. In Canada prices are crazy for bikes still. A new mechanical 105 carbon TCR with aluminum wheels is 3800cad. Even Canyons and other DTC we have to pay a bunch extra from HST and duty sometimes. The used market is even more crazy than new, decade old carbon 105 rim brake bikes for 1.5kcad is normal. Sometimes you can find good deals for older bikes. But if you want modern carbon frame + carbon wheels there's really no competition here at all if you're comfortable building.

[coffeebreak]

Personally I'll never buy a Chiner frame above $800-900. There are right now at least 5 frames on FBMP, Craigslist, OfferUp and Pinkbike in my size by all the reputed brands made within last 2 to 5 years in carbon and alloy priced around $700-900 mark. And there are many more once you reach 1500 mark. I'll be okay if my frame doesn't have dropped chain stays and clearance for 32c tires on a road frame. If you are not married to carbon and disc brakes, Cannondale sells CAAD 13 frames in beautiful retro colors for $1k right from factory. You can build a caad within weight limits of a Chiner CF frame easily.
Buying used, as I found out is where the best deals are if you forego custom colors. If building a bike from frame up is not your thing, keep an eye out for Canyon and Ribble sales. Some of those deals really make you question the decision to buy Chiner frame and building it up.

[nickobec]

This post illustrates an interesting point in that what is 'good value' changes with local market conditions.

Whether an open mould bike can be good value depends on what you're looking to get from it, and how that compares to local alternatives, particularly second-hand.

Here in Australia, ....

Another Australian here, wanted to build a rim braked aero bike to race.

I ended up buying a second hand Giant Propel SL with Di2 and 55mm carbon wheels still on it's original chain, cheaper than open mold frame, good carbon wheels and decent groupset

For  similar money could of bought a used Giant Propel SL disc frame, LTwoo eRX and less expensive Chinese carbon wheels.

As said it is a value for money proposition. I built a lightweight Velobuild/Dengfu FM066SL 10 years ago, it was cheapest way to get a stupidly light bike 6.6kg at  the time. 

Currently  for me the value frames in AU is second hand high end frames  eg Giant Propel SL, TCR SL and Scott Foil team edition seen recent good low mileage frames for under $1k AUD.

That said I will rebuild my FM066SL (ended up repurposed as TT bike) and see how light I can get it now

[Takiyaki]

I honestly think the best option is to go with a mainstream second hand frameset and then build it up with your own "chinese" components.

Anyone that is going for whole bike builds is a super fred at this point since I would have to immediately replace the bars/stems (44cm lmao) and cranks (175mm lmao).
I also have a lot of wheels already so the wheels/tyres that come with it would go sitting in the corner.
If it comes with a powermeter i'd have to sell it since i already have powermeter.
The saddle is also useless since it won't be my preferred saddle.

At that point i bought a whole bike and only using the frame and the groupset.

You raise some good points. GC Performance recently did a YT video about how silly mainstream brands are with component sizing.  If someone is paying thousands of dollars for a bike they should basically get a custom fit with it too IMO. Or at the minimum big brands should get with the times on stuff like bars and cranks. I just swapped my 42cm bars for 38cms and I like the change. More aero and I swear it feels like the reach has been shortened. I'm contemplating trying 36cm bars...

And unfortunately mainstream brands don't sell their low end frames alone. I think $1000-2000 big brand framesets would put a lot of pressure on open mold manufacturers.

On the flip side though there is still resale. Selling off all the parts you don't want can add up to a decent chunk of change, and then you are left with a name brand frame with the exact components you want. I dont know what to do

[Takiyaki]

Personally I'll never buy a Chiner frame above $800-900. There are right now at least 5 frames on FBMP, Craigslist, OfferUp and Pinkbike in my size by all the reputed brands made within last 2 to 5 years in carbon and alloy priced around $700-900 mark. And there are many more once you reach 1500 mark. I'll be okay if my frame doesn't have dropped chain stays and clearance for 32c tires on a road frame. If you are not married to carbon and disc brakes, Cannondale sells CAAD 13 frames in beautiful retro colors for $1k right from factory. You can build a caad within weight limits of a Chiner CF frame easily.
Buying used, as I found out is where the best deals are if you forego custom colors. If building a bike from frame up is not your thing, keep an eye out for Canyon and Ribble sales. Some of those deals really make you question the decision to buy Chiner frame and building it up.

Canyon sales are another thing that prompted this thread. Endurace CF7 prices are not far from a comparable Chiner build and they have some cool colors too.

[coffeebreak]

Canyon sales are another thing that prompted this thread. Endurace CF7 prices are not far from a comparable Chiner build and they have some cool colors too.

True, you just have to move fast to score popular sizes. Besides you can get real money back when you sell it for whatever reasons v/s peanuts you will get from selling a used Chiner frame.

[Sakizashi]

Regarding the UCI sticker. I think its a big deal because it means that the company is intending to spend the money because they believe their product is good enough to be raced and likely good enough to spend resources supporting a team at some level. From the consumer side, it signals to me that they are more likely to stand behind their brand and product.

UCI sticker means very little for safety, but I think many open molds frames that are looking to do sales through a small brand (not look alike copies / counterfeits) do provide testing certs from 3rd parties.

[jefflinde]

The resale is kind of what prompted me thinking about this. I want to sell my current build to start my next one. It has some really nice components (some DA9000 stuff, Quarq PM), but I feel like I'm gonna have to basically price it as the sum of the components with the frameset for free to get it to move. A name brand bike of the same spec would cost more upfront but def have higher resale. So it kind of feels like a false economy unless you plan to buy and hold.

I have sold quite a few of my open mold frames.  they actually sell reasonably well in my area.  i am able to get 60-75% of the price i paid.  people are getting more curious about the value proposition that open mold frames provide.  i like to split up the frame and group set when i sell though.  i find that people either want a name brand group set for what ever they are doing or they want an open mold frame to build their own thing.   

[Froglover825]

I have sold quite a few of my open mold frames.  they actually sell reasonably well in my area.  i am able to get 60-75% of the price i paid.  people are getting more curious about the value proposition that open mold frames provide.  i like to split up the frame and group set when i sell though.  i find that people either want a name brand group set for what ever they are doing or they want an open mold frame to build their own thing.   

I've found that if you part out a bike you can sell it for a lot more than if you were to sell it as a package.

[jannmayer]

I think the real value of the open mold frames is if you want something unique that you can't get off the shelf. Frames from the mainstream brands are crazy expensive compared with the open mold ones, so open mold is a great value if you want to build up a frame. Custom paint jobs are another great selling point.


But I agree that it would be very hard to compete with Canyon on the price of a complete bike if they had something you wanted. (I went with one of their outlet Enduraces a few years ago and couldn't have built up a cheap frame for that.)


I think the open mold frames make more sense for gravel bikes because there can be more benefit to building up a bike exactly how you want it.

[Sebastian]

An open mold frame is the cheapest option. My Vb R218 with Chiner wheels and a Record 2x12 groupset (partly used and partly new) cost me around 1.500 EUR. No chance in the world to find anything like that from any manufacturer.
Also, for me it’s not about whether these frames are as good as the more expensive ones. But I feel that for me they’re simply all the bike I’m ever going to need. I’m fast enough for the occasional KOM and/or decent race result in my area. Im coming from a Ridley brand name frame. But ever since I bought a steel rim brake frame from Planet X for 340 EUR and was quicker on it in many cases than I was on my way more expensive Carbon bike, I realised that there’s only so much difference a bike frame can make. And more money doesn’t always make for a better bike for a given person.
I’m pretty sure a 12k SWORKS is not going to make me that much faster. Im tempted to try one but all in all I’m satisfied with the riding experience I get from Chiner frames. My Ridley before really wasn’t that different.

[mirphak]

Canyon sales are another thing that prompted this thread. Endurace CF7 prices are not far from a comparable Chiner build and they have some cool colors too.

Yeah well, in Europe they do not offer anymore it paired with the 105di2 and etap. Only 105 mechanical. What a pity because I was really tempted given its <3000€ pricetag.

[PLA]

I have an endurace cf7 with mech 105. Great bike. Going to replace it with a Yishun. If it's a mistake then, no probs, can try something else in future.

[Takiyaki]

I am really torn on what to do for my next build. I'm basically between an old CF7 105 or the Great Value version (VB-R-066). With the parts I want (38cm aero bars, WR45 wheelset) I feel like they come to about the same price (~$3000 though I could sell some stuff off the Canyon). I think I could get the Velobuild under 7kg and I would want a custom color for it (sparkly "British Racing" green). What would you do?