WheelTop EDS OX Series Wireless Derailleur 460 Mile (775)KM) Trip Report

[Tijoe]

Yesterday I completed a 460 mile ride on my fully loaded Bikepacking rig.  I rode from Radium Hot Springs, Canada to Banff, Canada, then from Banff back home in Montana.   This bike has been built using about 60% of parts purchased off of Aliexpress.   The Wheeltop EDS OX, removable battery veriion is my rear derailleur and shift pod.  The Cassette is a  ZTTO Ultralight 10 X 50 12 speed using a KMC 12 speed chain.   This configuration/iteration of this bike had about 800 flawless miles using this Wheeltop EDS drivetrain on it without any problems. (I have 3 bikes in operation with the EDS OXs)  Shifts on this bike were crisp, and smooth "up and down" all 12 cogs.   I double checked how the shifting worked several times using the app, making sure the battery was 100% charged and ready to ride.

Day 1:   I encountered heavy rain and wet roads for about 45 miles out of the 81 miles.   All went well with the bike.
Day 2:   Leaving Banff, and heading into the wilderness, I needed to shift into my lowest cog (50T).   It wouldn't shift into the 50.  I would hear the servo make a sound, but it wouldn't shift.   I stopped and removed the battery.  (There was some water between the battery and the derailleur housing. I dried off the water and replaced the battery, hoping the reboot of the derailleur would reset it to shift into the 50T cog.  I also looked at the limit stop, to see if it had moved.    No Difference!   I tried to link to the phone app and WTF!   The app states I need an internet connection to proceed!    Why the heck can't you connect to the derailleur to look at the settings without an internet connection!!!
Day 3:   I had to ride up a lot of climbs without my 50T cog on a 60+ lb loaded bike!   (More Hike-a-Biking)   Today the next problems with the Derailleur started.  I noticed that when I tried to shift into higher ratio cogs, that pushing the button caused the servo to make noise, but the derailleur would'nt shift.  I'd push the button again, nothing!  Then on the 4th button push, the derailleur would suddenly shift across the 4 cogs (since I had pushed the button 4 times.)   At this point in the ride, the derailleur would still downshift smoothly except into the 50T cog.   
Day 4:   On top of yesterday's problem, the derailleur stopped shifting into the 2 highest gears!  (Now it was working as a 9 speed cassette.)   Note that I was riding often in heavy rain and on either wet muddy service roads, and sometimes on singletrack trails.   (I was starting to become disappointed with Wheeltop)
Day 5:   Derailleur continued to exhibit the same problems.  Sometimes not shifting at all either up or down.  I would hear the servo sound on the derailleur, but it wouldn't shift.  Then all of the sudden it would shift multiple gears at once. (both for upshifts, then downshifts.)

Rest of the ride:   I had to live with these issues for the rest of my ride.   Occasionally the derailleur would start shifting smoothly into all of the gears, except the 50T cog.  Then it would start messing up again.  Occasionally, it would upshift, then downshift one cog without without pushing the pod button.  Very annoying while spinning up a 4% grade.

I understand that this is a long read, but I am frustrated to say the least!    This trip was a fun camping vacation ride.  I have a more serious long distance ride in a couple months and now I can't Trust my EDS OX systems!

I will start troubleshooting the system after I get the time to start cleaning the bike and get the App connected to the derailleur and post what I have found. 

[jonathanf2]

Have you tried cleaning up the drivetrain and check to see if anything was off? Was it shifting into all cassette gears prior to the trip and did you avoid any drops on the rear derailleur that might have caused misalignment?

Also have you confirmed the Wheeltop app needs internet to access the groupset? If it needs to be connected online, that's a serious turn-off for Wheeltop. At least with LTwoo, I was able to confirm gear tuning access without internet by going into airplane mode on my smartphone.

[Tijoe]

Have you tried cleaning up the drivetrain and check to see if anything was off?

I just arrived home July 4th evening and have not started the bicycle cleaning and inspection operation.  During the ride, the Derailleur was exposed to heavy rain, mud on the trails and gravel roads, at least 15 creek crossings, )One flooded road for about .1 miles, riding through deeper water well above the bottom bracket, so I am sure the derailleur was submerged that time.   Chain was lubed every day before the day's ride. 
- As a side note, what I put my bike through is no different than I have done for cable driven derailleurs, and I have not had problems like this derailleur is showing.

 Was it shifting into all cassette gears prior to the trip and did you avoid any drops on the rear derailleur that might have caused misalignment?

YES and YES (No mis-alignments.  When its shifts, it shifts properly.  Downshifts are still smooth. (When it decides it wants to shift)

Also have you confirmed the Wheeltop app needs internet to access the groupset? If it needs to be connected online, that's a serious turn-off for Wheeltop.


I thought I used to be able to connect only via Bluetooth.  Then when I did my last software upgrade, it appears now that you need the internet to let the App operate.  My brother recently installed a fixed battery version on his MTB.  He complained that the App didn't connect in the field to do adjustments.   I will look into this further.

[rasch]

in a nutshell, recommendation = buy Shimano or SRAM if one wants electronic shifting. Else stick to mechanical

[jonathanf2]

in a nutshell, recommendation = buy Shimano or SRAM if one wants electronic shifting. Else stick to mechanical

I still wouldn't chance Di2/AXS electronic for any serious off-grid trail riding. Even though I'm running LTwoo electronic on my road bikes, my gravel bike is mechanical. At least there's peace-of-mind knowing it will work regardless of any conditions.

[Tijoe]

The winner of the TD ride this year ran SRAM electronic shifting.   During my shorter week long ride this past week, I helped 2 riders I encountered. One had a SRAM transmission electronic derailleur break it's derailleur cage tension spring, the other was a SRAM XX1 rear cable driven derailleur where mud and dirt had intruded into the cable area making it almost impossible to shift.   The rider I spent most of my trip time with has an almost brand new front cable driven SRAM Force 22 fail and no longer shift into the large ring.

This year, there were 31% of the TD riders running Electronic shifting.  It will be interesting to see what the stats were on "derailleur problems" that were encountered on the 2024 TD race.

Back to my Wheeltop EDS OX issue, it will be interesting to see what I discover is the problem with my derailleur.  (Mechanical, or electrical.   OTOH, I checked my battery usage.   20% in 7 days of riding 460 miles.)

[Tijoe]

First analysis:   With the App running, I tried to shift through all of the gears.

The derailleur still does not shift into the lowest gear (50T)  -  When I start shifting into the lower gears, it takes pressing the button 6 times before the derailleur moves.  Then it drops down 5 gears.  I push the button 6 more times and then it shifts down to the 10th cog. (wont shift into the 10 tooth cog.)   Next, I physically  pull the derailleur outwards,  my added motion lets the derailleur shift down the last 2 cogs.   

Downshifting, out of the 10T cog, it takes 2 pushes of the button to get the derailleur to move one cog. Then it shifts smoothly all up 10 more gears, but not into the 50T cog. (There is room for one more shift to the limit screw.)

It appears to me that I have some sort of binding / extra friction in the pivots.   Next step will be to remove the derailleur and clean it...

[Tijoe]

Investigation:  I cleaned the derailleur and it is off the bike.  I connected the rear derailleur to App, and went into the "Fine Tuning screen"  All of the gear settings are close to 250 steps apart.  (12 speed - 2500 steps for 12gear and 0 steps for 1gear.)

With the derailleur off of the bike, when I shift from 1gear to 12gear and 12gear back to 1 gear, the derailleur moves back and forth.

EXCEPT: When I shift from 1gear to 2gear, the pivots hardly move at all compared to the distance traveled for the rest of the gears shifts.  This explains why I can only make it to the 11th cog on the cassette.  It also explains why on the bike, I had to shift twice to get the chain to move into the next larger gear (2gear)

This is where I need input regarding this problem.
1.  Should I try a "One Click Recovery"?
2.  Should I try some sort of other hard reset and hope the electronics inside the derailleur reset so the the pivots will travel an actual 250 steps?
3.  Is this lack of motion something mechanical where the derailleur might be broken?
4.  Has anyone read what oil/lubricant might be used on the pivot pins?  I believe that water intrusion has made the pivot pins have more friction than my other EDS OX derailleurs.

Thanks.

[oxidizer]

Any updates? Did you find out what was the problem?

[Serge_K]

i missed this thread when it was 1st posted.
Philosophical question: by which magic did wheeltop send a vibe (on youtube especially) that it was a superior product to ltwoo?
From what i can tell, the build quality is actually lower (the rubber hoods, for eg), and it looks like it basically has the same problems, at the same rate, as ltwoo.

I'd suspect that wheeltop sent a bunch of products to review for free to youtubers for which they just had to make 1 video, vs ltwoo didnt.
I commented on a some random tiny youtuber that his "review" was essentially garbage in garbage out, because he had received a EDS unit and wanted to be done with his commitment to posting a video about it so he can go back to using shimano, and he got really offended.

Using 1st generation chinese electronic groupsets in wet mud is quite brave. last time i rode my gravel bike with my er9, it died.

[oxidizer]

Philosophical question: by which magic did wheeltop send a vibe (on youtube especially) that it was a superior problem to ltwoo?

ltwoo doesn't make a mtb wireless derallieur, does it?

[Serge_K]

ltwoo doesn't make a mtb wireless derallieur, does it?

they make a gravel version, the egr. i dont do MTB, but gravel is meant to be ridden in wet mud too, and can take a big cassette, so i suspect both are similar in spirit.

[oxidizer]

not really tbf. Their gravel can take 10-46, which is not widely used ratio out there in mtb, but it could work perhaps. But the battery isn't integrated into the derallieur, it's supposed to be inside seatpost. Which is what you can't really do on most MTBs since they're equipped with dropper posts.