Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes?

[patliean1]

Here is my personal longwinded take. Anecdotally speaking of course 

-I stand by my viewpoint we each should spend on whatever inspires us to play bikes more often. While also understanding that our purchases neither makes us more or less virtuous than the next individual.

-Personally speaking, I have yet to find the value of blatantly counterfeit/unauthorized frames if I have to invest my own funds. Of course if one of these companies wants to work with me for a review I would probably reconsider. But there are just too many great Chiner frames on the market now.

-So I live Chicago with multiple groups rides on offer every day of the week in the warmer months. Yet 95% of my rides are solo. I started in cycling riding nothing but Chinese frames in a sea of Specialized and Treks so I don't need the validation of others. I still do most rides on Chiner bikes today. But most importantly...I think the majority of group rides are a complete waste of time. Especially if you treat cycling as a means to gain fitness rather a social activity.

-I wouldn't cast judgement on anyone riding a fake frame to a group ride. In fact, arguably one of the strongest racers in Chicago who competes against national level talent rides a counterfeit frame. Authentic wheels and cockpit however. But I assure you no one takes issue with it.

-My one true critique against fake frames, and it's completely superficial, is seeing customers put budget components and wheels on a frame "intended" for mid-to-high end Sram/Shimano/Campy. I think I once seen a fake S-Work SL7 with MECHANICAL LTwoo groupset and Elite Edge wheels. It made me wanna puke. Yeah I know I'll get flamed for saying that.

[Bonus79]

I just went with the R088 because it had the features I wanted and was cheaper to buy at the time. Though these SL8 clones don't look that bad to me, I'd consider getting one minus any fake branding.

I also like the frame and, from what I understand, Seraph is reliable as a manufacturer/seller....but from my point of view, even without the Specialized logo, the frame is still an obvious copy of something else (even applying the Seraph logo).

To me these SL8 clones remind me of the Aethos clones on the market.

Can you explain?

I think the vendors have the build process figured out, especially since they're not trying to build them to the low weight specs of an S-Works SL8.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand...I seem to understand that in several cases the weights are even lower, or am I wrong?

[Bonus79]

Isn't that just pretty much a 1:1 copy of the SL7?

No, the SL7 has a different shaped dropper, seat tube and head tube top.

The Spcycle R088 frame resembles the SL8, but with a different head tube and fork, and for this reason it cannot be considered a 1:1 copy

[rasch]

-My one true critique against fake frames, and it's completely superficial, is seeing customers put budget components and wheels on a frame "intended" for mid-to-high end Sram/Shimano/Campy. I think I once seen a fake S-Work SL7 with MECHANICAL LTwoo groupset and Elite Edge wheels. It made me wanna puke. Yeah I know I'll get flamed for saying that.

I completely agree with you on the superficial part. Most people just do this because the frame looks good. However, under the hood, they know what they have even if the others don't know it. So how do these people feel it's up to each (no judgements as long as they don't try to cheat other people).

On the other hand, I think that cheap mechanical parts and wheels are actually more suitable than higher end stuff. If you got to do it, do it right. One want to build it cheap, then build it cheap eheheh

I'd not buy nor build my clients fakes simply because I think there are some other great options out there. But if I would, I'd do it for the sake of money of course, and would try actually to fit it with cheaper components.

I think most of us here could actually buy a proper SL8 or similar. We just like this "puzzle" game so much, and try to optimize here and there, have more bikes etc, that we end up sometimes losing ourselves in this After all, this is the spirit of this community

[peterpanpeter]

Hello!

I'm new to the "directly from china"-scene (also cycling in general) so please excuse me if I ask stupid questions/don't have all the information.

I've been looking at this frame because it's been scientifically aero tested (by specialized), right? This combined with the weight is why I thought this was a good frame, I don't care about the brand and I don't really care if people judge me for riding a fake. Also watched Pat's and other's videos on the sl8 and it seems pretty good. Like some others have said in this thread, if this frame rides even just 70% of the real deal then that's more than enough for me.

-Personally speaking, I have yet to find the value of blatantly counterfeit/unauthorized frames if I have to invest my own funds. Of course if one of these companies wants to work with me for a review I would probably reconsider. But there are just too many great Chiner frames on the market now.

I'd not buy nor build my clients fakes simply because I think there are some other great options out there. But if I would, I'd do it for the sake of money of course, and would try actually to fit it with cheaper components.

I think most of us here could actually buy a proper SL8 or similar. We just like this "puzzle" game so much, and try to optimize here and there, have more bikes etc, that we end up sometimes losing ourselves in this After all, this is the spirit of this community

Could you guys recommend some other good frames? I'm not hell bent on this one but from what I've seen it looked like it had all the things I was looking for. I can definitely not afford the real deal.

[jonathanf2]

I also like the frame and, from what I understand, Seraph is reliable as a manufacturer/seller....but from my point of view, even without the Specialized logo, the frame is still an obvious copy of something else (even applying the Seraph logo).

I think it just comes down to buying from a reliable vendor. If Tan Tan offers customer service support, then I wouldn't have an issue. It looks like even the fakes are probably EPS molded and there are lots of accessories on AliEx for the SL8. Plus not all of us ride with the bourgeoisie cycling crowd. I don't think anyone would bat an eye towards an unlabeled SL8 copy in my area.

Can you explain?

There are so many Aethos clones floating around from Bigrock, ICAN, Onirii and reliability on those frames seem to be solid. They're not as light as a genuine S-Works Aethos (maybe the Bigrock), but most these Aethos copies seem to ride just fine.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand...I seem to understand that in several cases the weights are even lower, or am I wrong?

An S-Works SL8 in size 56 is like 680g. The regular SL8 is 780g. These SL8 clones are like 800g plus at similar sizes. My R088 is 790g with RD/FD and cage bolts, but that frame doesn't have the speed sniffer head tube.

[Bonus79]

That actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not a fan of the looks of the SL8, but if i did, if i got to trust the seller of fake, i would probably get one for the same reasons. the aero testing is a strong argument. Likewise, i wouldnt get the fake branding. I'd probably troll and put an ASS-WORKS decal or something like that, to make it very clear it's not a Spec.
I would ride an ASS-WORKS surrounded by S-WORKS, just to troll my friends. But i wouldn't buy a S-WORKS branded fake S-WORKS, because it's illegal, cringe, and i'd rather troll than be a poser. Also, i can afford an S-WORKS, and can confidently say i'll never buy one, out of principle. I know too well the factory prices to pay such a premium for a bike frame.

I agree with what you say, but I think the line between troll and poser might not be so clear....in the eyes of other people they might appear the same.
In fact, anyone who buys a copy frame (even without the S-Works or Specialized logo) could be considered a poser, especially when the shape of the frame clearly recalls the original (see Tarmac SL8, Supersix or Madone)....and probably in most cases this is the reality.
For this reason, even if I like the Seraph X68 (obviously, I like the SL8), I think I won't buy it...at least that's my opinion today.

[CARLOS5]

Here you have photos of the assembly of the Tantan SL8. I will send more photos soon.

[CARLOS5]

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[toxin]

I mean if you're buying for aero, you really shouldn't be going for a tarmac

[jes2k13]

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Can you give us the specs of your build? more importantly the total weight?
great looking bike dude!

[CARLOS5]

Ultegra di2 12v groupset, wheels with Yishun rims and Sapim CX Ray spokes and Goldix 180 hubs. Galfer Weave 140 rear 160 front discs. Bontrager Mostrose saddle, Rockbros handlebar tape, Continental Grandsport tires with Ridenow lightweight tubes, carbon bottle cages from AliExpress. I think that's it. I haven't weighed it yet. When I weigh it, I'll put it here.

[zett]

I mean if you're buying for aero, you really shouldn't be going for a tarmac

Well Tarmac is supposed to be a do-it-all. It has some aero optimizations, but it's also very lightweight, etc. The "speed sniffer" on its own probably is more of a marketing gimmick still.

[CoreX88]

I finished building the TT-X68 already two weeks ago, but it was very busy, so here is my update.

Carbon quality seems really good. I had zero issues with sharp edges or anything similar. The areas for the break mounts were all sanded down really well and also with the BB and the headset I had zero play/issues. The paint quality is so far superb and I'm more than happy TanTan changed there mind on the color customization of this frame.

I use a full Ultegra DI2 Groupset incl. 160mm discs front/rear, except for the crankset. As most of you can tell, I'm using a Magene PES505 in 165mm. In combination with my Novatec R4, some RideNow TPU Tubes and the Pirelli Tires the whole bike is 7152 g. The bottle cages are still in transit, but they will add only about 25g. It's a Size 52.

For my first chinese frame experience, this was quite a good one 

The only thing I do not recommend is the computer mount. I think the angle of this is too steep, but I already found an alternative.

[TidyDinosaur]

Very nice green! Did you pay for the paint job / did you get a discount because you're putting their brand & model number? If not, why use their brand and model number?

Why not put it on there? Not everyone wants to invent a fake brand to put on their bike... At least they don't charge you extra for their brand name like big brands do