First bike build, Carbonda CFR 505 SL

[Lapskaus]

Hi everyone,

I am currently sourcing the materials for my first bike build. Now I need a little bit of input, about some of the parts, especially on the frame and handlebar I am planning on using. My current list looks like this:

Gravel Bike Parts

I am more or less locked on the Carbonda 505 SL framset and the LightBicycle AR46 wheels, I am not 100% sure about anything else yet, some parts more some parts less.
My current bike is a Rose Backroad AL Randonneur (2020 edition, size 59). Now I am looking for a slightly more sportiv bike. According to the Rose employee, who sold me the bike back in 2020, I am between a 57 and 59 ( My height is 188cm with ~88-89cm inside leg length. ) and since I was looking for a relaxed commuter bike, he suggested the 59.

Here is a comparison of the Rose in 59 and the Carbonda in XL (60 according to their website).

Now my questions are as follows:

• Is the Carbonda XL is the right size for what I am looking for or if I should go with the 57? I know too little about frame geometry to make more than an educated guess here.
• I like the aesthetics of a fully integrated handlebar/stem combo like the one Carbonda offers. But I think being able to change the stem separately has some benefits too. Should I just go for the Carbonda Handblebar/stem, or are there better (budget friendly) alternatives? My initial Budget was 3000-3500€ but I didnt account for the shipping cost of the frame and wheels, which is around ~350€ (for both together, already inlcuded in my list). That's why I currently lean towards the Carbonda Handlebar, because it seems to be the best to stay somewhat in my budget (would 440/100 be a good choice, given that I am happy with the handlebar on my current bike?)
• Am I missing anything very obvious in that list? (Other than the entire cockpit)
• Are there any all black, compatible casettes? (10-36 12 speed, the all black cassettes I found so far are mostly 10-50 or similar)

[EDIT]
Edited the bike part list. Getting closer

[acedeuce802]

505 SL does seem like the right frame for that tire choice, I assume you're going for an "all-road" type bike?  Road tire size with a bit of knob for off-road, but not off-road enough to need a true gravel tire?  Do you ever see yourself wanting a full width gravel tire in the 40-50mm range, which would then push you to a true gravel bike, like a CFR707?  Just sparking some discussion in case anyone else has frame suggestions.

1. What's your goal of the bike?  The Rose and 505 in your comparison have nearly the same stack, and 505 has 14mm longer reach.  So if you ran a 10mm shorter stem on the 505, or pushed the saddle forward a bit, it'd feel nearly identical.  Which sparks the question, do you want it to feel the same?  You say you want more sportiv, do you want a more aero position, so lower stack? 

2. I chose the integrated handlebar with my CFR707, but I'm switching to a separate bar/stem.  You can mostly hide the cables with an FSA/ACR stem, or heavier knock-off version on Aliexpress.  I want to dial in my fit with a handlebar narrower than I could find in integrated, so that drives a separate bar/stem.  Plus integrated bars have handlebar angle fixed.  If it works for you, then the integrated bar is awesome.  But if it doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Lapskaus]

505 SL does seem like the right frame for that tire choice, I assume you're going for an "all-road" type bike?  Road tire size with a bit of knob for off-road, but not off-road enough to need a true gravel tire?  Do you ever see yourself wanting a full width gravel tire in the 40-50mm range, which would then push you to a true gravel bike, like a CFR707?

The goal is to get an Road/Light Gravel Bike. I dont intend to use it for anything more than relatively flat, light gravel roads for now. Allthough I thought if I add a 2nd pair of wheels with ~40mm tires and a 10-44 cassette I could do some (lighter) gravel trails with it too. Which is why I am currently indecisive about the groupset.

Which sparks the question, do you want it to feel the same?  You say you want more sportiv, do you want a more aero position, so lower stack?

Currently I am sitting very upright on my Rose, which I want to change to a more aero Position, but I dont want to go crazy so that frame seemed like a good compromise. The decision is more or less only based on the evaluation @bikeinsights saying that the Rose frame has "Average stack and reach" and the Carbonda has a "Somewhat aggressive stack and reach". But if I go to the Carbonda in L the reach stays nearly the same but the stack of the Carbonda is 15mm shorter. Hence the question, which frame size is better for my goal.

2. I chose the integrated handlebar with my CFR707, but I'm switching to a separate bar/stem.  You can mostly hide the cables with an FSA/ACR stem, or heavier knock-off version on Aliexpress.  I want to dial in my fit with a handlebar narrower than I could find in integrated, so that drives a separate bar/stem.  Plus integrated bars have handlebar angle fixed.  If it works for you, then the integrated bar is awesome.  But if it doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.

I think I will go with the Carbonda handlebar for now, as you said I could change it later on and I don't think I will get a better deal for a handlebar and stem.

[rasch]

The only thing I have to say is: damn... almost 4k on a chinese bike! At that pricepoint and having to purchase all pieces I'd just go around the local shops and look for deals and get a western brand which might not be having the Sram fancy Force, but a simple rival or even mechanical.

Last month I saw a Merida 105 di2 for 2.3k, a couple of days ago I saw a ridley and with shimano 105 di2 for sth like 2.2K, all new. You add some carbon wheels for 600 (and can even sell the old ones) and you save yourself 30% of the investment and support local businesses.

I feel that nowadays china stuff is becoming less and less appealing

[Lapskaus]

Well I also can just ride my Rose Backroad, and spend 0 bucks, or sell it for some bucks and start running.
Seriously though, I like to build stuff and tinker, I like to cycle and I have money to spare. Now if you can point me to a "western frame" (that was most likely mass produced in china anyways) with similar specs that doesnt eat up 80+% of my whole budget, I gladly take that. On top of that LB and Carbonda seem to be somewhat reputable.

[raisinberry777]

The only thing I have to say is: damn... almost 4k on a chinese bike! At that pricepoint and having to purchase all pieces I'd just go around the local shops and look for deals and get a western brand which might not be having the Sram fancy Force, but a simple rival or even mechanical.

Last month I saw a Merida 105 di2 for 2.3k, a couple of days ago I saw a ridley and with shimano 105 di2 for sth like 2.2K, all new. You add some carbon wheels for 600 (and can even sell the old ones) and you save yourself 30% of the investment and support local businesses.

I feel that nowadays china stuff is becoming less and less appealing

The value proposition depends on many things. Even as the price gets closer, for me there's still a lot of value in building from a frameset - I often find that many things on stock bikes aren't right for me such as handlebar width, stem length, preferred saddle, crank length, cassette size, tyre width (and just tyres generally), rim depth etc. so being able to build it as I want the first time holds a lot of appeal. I can see here that OP is targeting a pretty lightweight build and it would be hard to get that kind of weight on a build for 4k.

[rasch]

The value proposition depends on many things. Even as the price gets closer, for me there's still a lot of value in building from a frameset - I often find that many things on stock bikes aren't right for me such as handlebar width, stem length, preferred saddle, crank length, cassette size, tyre width (and just tyres generally), rim depth etc. so being able to build it as I want the first time holds a lot of appeal. I can see here that OP is targeting a pretty lightweight build and it would be hard to get that kind of weight on a build for 4k.

Don't get me wrong. I get you but the OP is asking for which size he should get. So I guess the "fit" here is a bit questionable. Such as "light weight". It's a measurement. Bikes are hard to measure, i get it. It's the "only" feature you can objectively measure. Aero crap measurements are just marketing. But weight... come on... having a 7kg or 8kg has little to no difference. If we were talking about 11 or 12. There is a difference and you can definitely feel it. But it's common for human to focus on the details and forget on the bigger picture - that's the marketing effect has on us

[jfcb]

How many spacers are you running now with your current bike? If you are already slammed and with a -17deg stem, I would say go for a size smaller. If you have some spacers below with a -6deg stem, the XL will be fine.
As an 505SL owner (in XL), I can say this is really a top tier frame where a lot of big brand's gravel bike cannot compete with. It has the modern features like T47BB and UDH, the ride quality is like a road bike with sharp cornering, it's stiff yet very lightweight (mine was 1050gr for XL), and I've been able to put 45mm schwable G-One RS in it without any scratching damage in muddy conditions.  I can imagine if you combine this with LB's wheels it's gonna be a fast machine. Almost a kill for a commuter bike.

Going for an integrated cockpit on a new bike is always a gamble concerning the fit. Compared to the big brands, the investment is not that big, but still it can be a waste of money if the fit is not right. You could always buy a different one afterwards. There are plenty of options on aliexpress around 150EUR.

Bike parts list: You could have a look at the Rival shifterset rather than the Force. Personally I prefer the fit of the Rival shifters (less bulky) and they are cheaper while having the same weight.  Also since you are running 1X, you might want to opt for the Xplorer deraileur in case you want to do more intensive gravel. But that's depending on your riding terrain.

[Lapskaus]

How many spacers are you running now with your current bike? If you are already slammed and with a -17deg stem, I would say go for a size smaller. If you have some spacers below with a -6deg stem, the XL will be fine.
As an 505SL owner (in XL), I can say this is really a top tier frame where a lot of big brand's gravel bike cannot compete with. It has the modern features like T47BB and UDH, the ride quality is like a road bike with sharp cornering, it's stiff yet very lightweight (mine was 1050gr for XL), and I've been able to put 45mm schwable G-One RS in it without any scratching damage in muddy conditions.  I can imagine if you combine this with LB's wheels it's gonna be a fast machine. Almost a kill for a commuter bike.

Thanks for your input. It isn't meant as a commuter, thats what my Rose is for. This is for regular workouts and trips, where I - until now - used my Rose too. I guess I will go with an XL frame then. Did you order/use the Carbonda axles/headset, are they any good?

Going for an integrated cockpit on a new bike is always a gamble concerning the fit. Compared to the big brands, the investment is not that big, but still it can be a waste of money if the fit is not right. You could always buy a different one afterwards. There are plenty of options on aliexpress around 150EUR.

I guess I will take the gamble on the Carbonda Handlebars then.

Bike parts list: You could have a look at the Rival shifterset rather than the Force. Personally I prefer the fit of the Rival shifters (less bulky) and they are cheaper while having the same weight.  Also since you are running 1X, you might want to opt for the Xplorer deraileur in case you want to do more intensive gravel. But that's depending on your riding terrain.

Yeah I'll def. have a deeper dive into that on the weekend I am jumping back and force between the xplr/non-xplr and rival/ force and compatible cassettes.

[jfcb]

Did you order/use the Carbonda axles/headset, are they any good?

Yes. The axles are good: they are lightweight and durable. I would opt for them to make sure you have the right dimensions.
The headset is standard FSA ACR dimensions. My experience with headset bearings is that for longevity it's mainly a matter of putting loads of sticky grease on them to avoid water ingress rather then choosing the relatively more expensive branded (from FSA, canecreek) ones over the cheaper ones.

[Pedaldancer]

But it's common for human to focus on the details and forget on the bigger picture - that's the marketing effect has on us

It's also very common for some humans to tell others what is right and wrong, neglecting that besides math there might be several right solutions for one topic.

And jeah  currently there are indeed some good deals around. But as  it's the goal to have a build from scratch, they might be not the fitting choice in this case.


For the question of the handlebar.. if you are shouting for infernal solution at the end, but are unsure about the dimensions and see willingly to have a test phase you can start with a semi integrated setup. Like having a "common" stem and handlebar and the hoses are entering the frame at the dust cap. Once you are fine and want to shift to an infernal routing, you "only" need to reroute the hydraulic hoses through  the integrated handlebar. And you need to change the dust cap.
For that you will most likely need to cut the olive barbs unfortunately.. so you need some cm free length.
And this approach has one weakness: the dimensions of stems, handlebars, integrated Cockpits are sometimes not identic, even if they come with the same printed numbers. But that's a part of the game. 
Is there the second fork to have an external routing possible? I think with the semi integrated dust caps (also available from FSA, Acros....) you could think about saving that. This is really working out pretty fine, if you want to use the frame with a common stem and handlebar. I have built 2 frames like this, and you can just use the infernal fork and are fine.

[Lapskaus]

Yes. The axles are good: they are lightweight and durable. I would opt for them to make sure you have the right dimensions.

Thanks, I will go with the axles and headset from carbonda.

For the question of the handlebar.. if you are shouting for infernal solution at the end, but are unsure about the dimensions and see willingly to have a test phase you can start with a semi integrated setup. Like having a "common" stem and handlebar and the hoses are entering the frame at the dust cap. Once you are fine and want to shift to an infernal routing, you "only" need to reroute the hydraulic hoses through  the integrated handlebar. And you need to change the dust cap.

Thanks for your input. I will go the opposite route and take the Carbonda Handlebars and risk having to switch them, if I end up not liking them.

I also made up my mind about some of the other components (I updated the list). I will go with a mix of rival and force groupset, that and some other stuff, like a saddle from AliExpress etc. brought me pretty close to my budget. The saddle brings me to another question though, that I couldnt answer through carbondas website:

What type of rails do I need for the carbonda seatpost?

[Pedaldancer]

This style of clamping does only clamp on the top and bottom part. So it doesn't matter if you put 7x7 or carbon rail with 7x9 in it.

E.g. this is the same clamping design and allows explicitly for both:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvTtIZS

[Lapskaus]

Does anyone know how good Carbonda's paintjobs are and if they do somewhat complicated jobs? I am usually relatively picky with such things and I would rather go with their unpainted black version than getting something that I don't like in the end. On top of that I did find a couple of posts reporting that the paint chipped easily in certain places. The paintjob would be based on the Cube Nuroad C:62 SLT Design (see image ). I wrote to their salesteam but didnt get an answer yet.

[zilcho]

Does anyone know how good Carbonda's paintjobs are and if they do somewhat complicated jobs? I am usually relatively picky with such things and I would rather go with their unpainted black version than getting something that I don't like in the end. On top of that I did find a couple of posts reporting that the paint chipped easily in certain places. The paintjob would be based on the Cube Nuroad C:62 SLT Design (see image ). I wrote to their salesteam but didnt get an answer yet.

Their paint is pretty good considering the price and seem to have no issue with more complex designs. However, unless things have changed recently, they also just buff out matte and glossy paint and only put a clear coat on metallics. My 505 from 2018 with just a single glossy color has held up well with minor scratches in the paint but no real chipping.