Trade wars and Frame Delivery

[klindsey00]

Is the lower price for this frame due to its age, or is Aliexpress and the seller eating some/most of the tariffs?

I don't think it works like that, the buyer pays the tariff as they are the ones importing the good. The seller isn't responsible for that once they ship out the item.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I've noticed a few AliX prices have jumped significantly Pass Quest chainrings are like $90 now. I think they were $40-50 before.

I've noticed both price increases and a lack of items on store pages. I think a lot of sellers have removed shipping to the US completely. This has me worried. I'm looking to buy another frameset eventually but am worried about price hikes and the current state of the US tariffs.

[Sakizashi]

I don't think it works like that, the buyer pays the tariff as they are the ones importing the good. The seller isn't responsible for that once they ship out the item.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I've noticed both price increases and a lack of items on store pages. I think a lot of sellers have removed shipping to the US completely. This has me worried. I'm looking to buy another frameset eventually but am worried about price hikes and the current state of the US tariffs.

You are somewhat incorrect in the sense that I believe AliExpress has effectively established itself as the importer. I think they had this setup in place before this year. Basically, they sell the goods to the US entity at a wholesale price, pay the tariff on that wholesale price, and then resell the item to you. This does create some income tax issues for them, but overall, it means the tariffs are reduced to around 10% versus 30%. They can't do this for less than the goods' cost to produce, because that would then definitely trigger a dumping tariff; therefore, the effective tariffs are at the "wholesale" price. You still pay these as a buyer, either in the form of a price increase or in the "other fee" section of your purchase. This is also why you now pay local sales tax on certain purchases. Obviously, not all sellers are cool with this scheme.

These tariffs are both poorly implemented and stupid to begin with.

[Tijoe]

I don't think it works like that, the buyer pays the tariff as they are the ones importing the good. The seller isn't responsible for that once they ship out the item.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I've noticed both price increases and a lack of items on store pages. I think a lot of sellers have removed shipping to the US completely. This has me worried. I'm looking to buy another frameset eventually but am worried about price hikes and the current state of the US tariffs.

I do not believe that US customs has access to what an Aliexpress buyers actually pays for an item.  Item price and shipping.  - Sales prices can be all over the place: Advertised price, or perhaps a sale price, then discounts - coins, coupons, shipping free or paid.   Therefore I am pretty sure that Aliexpress has a "declared price" that is used for importing an item through US customs. (CIF)
Yes, the buyer is responsible for paying all of the associated broker fees and tariffs.   Except...   Aliexpress has set up a system where all of this is transparent to the buyer, and the buyer in essence is using Aliexpress as our "Agent" for the store we purchase our items from, to do all of the processing and pay all of the fees and taxes.

I agree that many items we used to be able to purchase here in the USA are not longer being offered for shipment to the USA.  I come across this all of the time now when fellow Chinertown forum members post a link.  When I open the link, the items states that this item cannot be shipped to the USA.

[Matter]

Currently, AliExpress offers two main shipping options:

One option is for AliExpress to handle customs clearance and tax payments on your behalf. This option allows buyers to pay applicable US taxes directly through the platform. While convenient, it often significantly increases total costs.

The other option is to use a tax-inclusive shipping channel. With this option, buyers do not pay any additional taxes upon delivery. The logistics provider will arrange US customs clearance. However, the downside of this option is slightly longer shipping times, typically around 20 days. (This option is often used for high-value items such as wheels and frames.)

[klindsey00]

Okay, The aliexpress being the "import agent" makes sense, but how does this work if you buy directly from the manufacturer for, lets say, a frame or some wheels? Then am I responsible to pay all import fees when it gets into the US? Does the shipping company send me a bill?

This seems like the only way I'd be able to get the frame I'm looking at since the ali stores no longer shit to the US.

[Ludo]

They do DDP so they pay for it and in order to get low taxes they declare a low value.

[Tijoe]

I am pretty sure that the majority of items shipped to the USA are processed through Alibaba/Aliexpress  system known as the "Cainiao Smart Logistics Network"   Owned by Alibaba.   Cainiao is a global logistics and supply chain management company founded by Alibaba in 2013

Therefore if you purchase anything from a Chinese manufacturer the manufacturer likely does business with Cainiao.
In your case, unless you hire an import broker yourself and pay them to import your item, you work with the seller/manufacturer to use their export broker who will import your item to the USA, then hand of the package to a USA Shipper once it is released from customs.

[Sakizashi]

Okay, The aliexpress being the "import agent" makes sense, but how does this work if you buy directly from the manufacturer for, lets say, a frame or some wheels? Then am I responsible to pay all import fees when it gets into the US? Does the shipping company send me a bill?

This seems like the only way I'd be able to get the frame I'm looking at since the ali stores no longer shit to the US.

If you use DHL, they send you a bill to pay before clearance. If you use UPS they send you a bill you can pay on delivery or online before delivery. UPS also operates a brokerage, and IME can get you a significantly better tariff rate. It's more, but not dramatically different than what you pay to AliX. My recent purchase from Long Teng took 2-3 days to arrive after dispatch. IMO, the cost of shipping was worth it.

[klindsey00]

Thanks for the info, Definitely is something new to me. Trying to wrap my head around it before buying again.

[Rebel_Yell]

I just ordered a frame and my quote and payment included shipping with will cover everything from what I am told. I have no idea who shipping will be with, but ordered from XM Carbon Speed. 

[Munzer]

Long time listener, first time caller. 


I can only speak from my experience, but I ordered the X68 from TanTan on June 26th and the frame was delivered yesterday on August 19th.   Roughly 7 weeks from order to delivery. It was delivered via UPS, as of yet, no additional cost.  $719 for the frame kit and $160 for shipping.

[Matter]

Okay, The aliexpress being the "import agent" makes sense, but how does this work if you buy directly from the manufacturer for, lets say, a frame or some wheels? Then am I responsible to pay all import fees when it gets into the US? Does the shipping company send me a bill?

This seems like the only way I'd be able to get the frame I'm looking at since the ali stores no longer shit to the US.

Normally, frames and wheels are not shipped through AliExpress Cainiao. You can choose duty-free logistics just like buying on AliExpress in EU countries; you can also trade outside of AliExpress. This is done through a logistics agent. Just like EU duty-free logistics, no additional tax is required for shipments to the United States.

[glepore]

Just be clear with the seller what they're doing about tariff/duty. Most offer DPD (duty paid delivery)-they've been doing that in europe for a while, and they can do it to the US as well. They pay the shipping company the duty up front as part of the shipping fee and the shipping company acts as their agent to pay tariff on import. Transparent to the buyer.

[Tijoe]

Normally, frames and wheels are not shipped through AliExpress Cainiao. You can choose duty-free logistics just like buying on AliExpress in EU countries; you can also trade outside of AliExpress. This is done through a logistics agent. Just like EU duty-free logistics, no additional tax is required for shipments to the United States.

At least for my last frame and wheels set I purchased, through Aliexpress, and delivered to me in the  USA,  Cainiao was involved.  Cainiao is printed on the top of the EMS label with a bunch of numbers and Hanzi characters above a bar code label.    After the box left Customs, there is a USPS label placed on the wheels box, and a Fed-Ex label placed on the frame box.   I am not sure there is a "normal" way to ship complete bikes, frames, and wheels from china.   Manufacturers likely partner with a logistics/exporter/shipper that give them the lowest price and best delivery for their product.   OTOH,  from what I have read, Aliexpress is like Amazon in that they have a huge established very efficient/cost effective shipping operation. If you are a seller listing your frames and wheels in an Aliexpress store, why not use Alibaba/Aliexpress/Cainiao to ship your frames and wheels?

[Tijoe]

I just finished reading and attempted to comprehend how packages purchased through Aliexpress are processed these days through CBP.
-  I encountered 20 acronyms that are plastered all through the CBP's website and printed pages/documentations. (I'll paste them at the bottom just for grins, posting filler material, and an eye rolling experience for anyone interested.)

In a nutshell...

- What we have shipped to the USA through Aliexpress falls under CBP's  E-commere policies initiated on September 12, 2016.  https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/e-commerce
-  Until recently, when the apple cart was flipped over, most of E-commerce purchases fell under the $800 daily duty free De Minimis process established under section 301 Tariffs.  (This is gone now!)
-  The policies that are in place for the items we purchase from Aliexpress and pass through customs primarily fall under the "informal entry" process and is limited to items valued up to $2500 USD.   
- Items valued over $2500 have to go through the "formal entry" process.
- There is a set of documents that have to be filled out and filed through the EDI, through the ACH per EDP process. (Listed below)
- Per this process, all of the fees, duties, Tariffs, documents and declarations have to be submitted and paid before the items enter the CBP facility.
- (Entry Consolidation) Items can be bundled, grouped, into larger packages as long as each individual item is electronically listed with all the required information.
- These packages are then processed through the "Automated Clearing House" ACH.
- Once the packages are cleared, they are picked up and delivered to another sorting center that separates and sorts the items and determines the best way to ship the items to the purchaser.

What needs to be included in the "Informal entry process"
1. Bill of Lading: A contractual document between the shipper and the carrier that lists the details of the shipment, including the contents, origin, destination, and terms of carriage.
2. Commercial Invoice: An invoice that provides proof of sale between the buyer and seller, including details like the product description, quantity, value, and country of origin.
3. Packing List: A detailed list of all the items in the shipment, including the quantity, weight, and dimensions of each package.
4. Entry Summary (CBP Form 3461): This document is required for customs clearance in the USA and includes information about the shipment, such as the contents, value, and country of origin.
5. Certificate Of Origin: This document certifies that the goods being shipped were wholly obtained, produced, manufactured, or processed in a particular country.
6. Letter Of Credit: A binding agreement between the seller and buyer that protects both parties during the transaction.
7. Dangerous Goods Documentation: If the shipment contains any hazardous materials, additional documentation is required to comply with international shipping regulations.

Acronyms
CBP   U.S. Customs and Border Protection
EMS   Express Mail Service
ACE   Automated Commercial Environment
CCP   Customs Clearance Process
EMEG   Electronic manifest for export goods
EDI   Electronic Data Interchange
EDP   Electronic Declaration and Processing
HTS   Harmonized Tariff Schedule
ACH   Automated Clearinghouse
PPD   Prepaid Duty
DPD   Duty Paid Delivery
EDP   Electronic Declaration and Processing
DGD   Dangerous Goods Documentation
MPF   Merchandise Processing Fee
HMF   Harbor Maintenance Fee
DHF   Document and Handling Fees
CBF   Customs Brokerage Fees
PHC   Port Handling Charges
EDA   estimated date of arrival
BIEC   Border Interagency Executive Council