Full bikes, where to find and how are they (Seraph or others)

[casper.f]

Ive been looking into a full bike like the Seraph TT-X80
https://www.seraphbikes.com/Newest-2X12S-Aero-Road-Bike-TT-X80-Wheeltop-24-Speed-Hydraulic-Di2-Groupset-Carbon-Wheelset-Complete-Bicycle-p6301637.html

At only 1200USD shipped to EU it seems like a steal. But i have some questions

    Build Quality:

        I expect cost-saving parts (saddle, tires, etc.), which are easy to replace. But how’s the actual assembly?

        Are critical steps done properly (greasing bearings, indexing gears, aligning brakes)? Or are there shortcuts that’ll bite me later?

    Geometry Limitations:

        Seraph’s complete bikes seem limited to smaller/aggressive frames. At 188cm, I’d need a ~580mm+ stack—does anyone know if they’ll build other frames (e.g., endurance models) as complete bikes?

        Alternatively, are there other reputable sellers offering similar complete builds at this price point?

[glepore]

They'll build any frame up complete, just email them and ask for a quote. Some limitations-ie they don't do powermeter cranksets, but they can do Shimano builds, or Wheeltop.

[Takiyaki]

I think if you are this particular about assembly & geometry it's probably worth piecing together the bike yourself. It sounds like you know what you want and need. Also worth looking into used bikes honestly.

[Serge_K]

the wheels & tyres are very likely to be shyte.
I also wouldnt ride a 42 wide bar ever again.
Other than that though, 50/34 & 170 isn't bad. It's a 30$ crankset, probably, will get the job done. 11-32 cassette isn't bad.
If you can get them to build you a bike with narrower bars, and maybe give you a discount if you dont buy the wheels, it could be a good deal.

On relaxed geometry frames, the chinese market is younger than the west, and they all want to ride SL8. Until TDF bikes have higher stacks, legit high stack bikes (a la Pinarello F) are going to remain very niche, I think.

[Sander2177]

The reliability of that Chinese groupset would be a ? for me.
I would request 105di2 myself
As if you have issues with the groupset getting support might be tricky.
I would expect a bike like  and that groupset to come with issues that price point.
Unless someone here has one and it’s all good.

[klindsey00]

There is a whole thread on the wheeltop groups, people seem to love them and not as many issues as the ltwoo electronic groups. At least that is what I'm getting from the handful of smaller youtuber reviews and glancing through the threads on here for the road/gravel groups.

[Rebel_Yell]

Comment and quetion. 

Appears that some of their complete bikes come with wheels named Retrospect. 

Guessing that TanTan must produce Retrospect?
Anyone have any experience with these wheels?  I do know they
Are heavier than most carbon wheels.

Any other info?

[Serge_K]

Comment and quetion. 

Appears that some of their complete bikes come with wheels named Retrospect. 

Guessing that TanTan must produce Retrospect?
Anyone have any experience with these wheels?  I do know they
Are heavier than most carbon wheels.

Any other info?

I would look at the specs and ignore the brand. Rim depth, width, weight, material, shape, spokes, nipples, hubs. Once you know that, the sticker they put on the wheels doesnt matter too much, afaik, because carbon rims are now so commoditized that i doubt you could tell the difference between the same wheelset from factory A and B, all else equal.

[Rebel_Yell]

I would look at the specs and ignore the brand. Rim depth, width, weight, material, shape, spokes, nipples, hubs. Once you know that, the sticker they put on the wheels doesnt matter too much, afaik, because carbon rims are now so commoditized that i doubt you could tell the difference between the same wheelset from factory A and B, all else equal.

Trying to see what folks that have got these bikes think of these wheels?

[Benbenben]

I am also curious to hear feedback from TT x80 owners. Anyone here got that frame and can report?

To be honest, that complete bike from seraph can't be good as is. The crank, cassette, wheels, handlebar size etc. If I were to buy that build, I would probably swap parts right away and sell locally for super cheap. That would keep the bike as a good value buy.

[Serge_K]

Trying to see what folks that have got these bikes think of these wheels?

In most instances, it's noise, not signal. Too many variables. You need someone like Peak Torque who seriously tests wheels in a repeatable manner to come up with signal. And he's the 1st one to say that testing wheels in boring AF because there aren't really differences beyond those you expect. Some guy on a forum saying that he likes X more than Y, without knowing that his comparison is indeed apples to apples, and his ability as a rider, and the terrain where he rides, is largely meaningless.
Also, in all the wheel testing done by third parties, never has magic sauce come up. Wheels that are the same tend to test the same.
The sector is very commoditized. A hub is primarily meant to simply house bearings. A bearing just spins. Most high end wheels use the same spokes. A rim of a shape and size is just that.

I feel carbon wheels are the GOAT of OEM.
The concept of secret sauce in layup tech in frames in dubious enough, but in wheels, is borderline fantasy, afaik.