LTK266-D-SL, race frame, 680g, <800g w/paint & metal parts (M), fits 35mm+ tires

[strayan_rice_farmer]

Rival e1 levers, hope RX2 calipers. 1x using an old crank I had lying around, a ton of 3d printed parts. Stem is a 130mm Kalloy Uno -17. Also, the handlebar that I am going to keep blurred for now, since it's still being developed. It weighs 1.3kg+. The bike, including that chonker of a bar and the Look Xtrack carbon (steel axles), is just under 8kg.

With my DFS road wheels and 28mm tires, this bike weighs 7.7ish kg.

This is basically a test vehicle for parts I design, so it's built less to look good and more to be quickly taken apart and have parts swapped around.

Out of curiosity @Sakizashi
Are you using a FDM pseudo metal filament to make ridable prototype designs?
Or are we talking engineering filaments

[Sakizashi]

Out of curiosity @Sakizashi
Are you using a FDM pseudo metal filament to make ridable prototype designs?
Or are we talking engineering filaments

Everything that gets tested on a bike is production-ready, so it's all MJF printed or DMLS for metal. In my experience, you need costly FDM machines and excellent operators to create consistent enough prints for stuff like headset spacers if you want them to be safe in the long run. Adhesion, anisotropic properties, and voids are all problems that MFJ, as a process, seems to minimize vs. FDM or SLS.

Different nylons are used depending on expected loads and performance characteristics needed.

I use FDM for fit prototypes, as it minimizes the chance of a dimensional screwup on the final prints, but I still made a slight error on the aero chain keeper in the photo, as I can move the contact point back a little. It won't as neatly meet the curve of the shape, but it will use less material.

[Tines]

What is that handle bar made of? lead?
Over 1.3kg?
Or is that just for prototyping?

[Sakizashi]

What is that handlebar made of? lead?
Over 1.3kg?
Or is that just for prototyping?

Lol, yeah, it's a functional prototype made of steel. I got nervous reading about void failures in 3D printed metal structures, so I over-spec'd it. The wall thickness is 2x what you use in terms of tubing.

The important part is that there is a pretty straightforward path to sub 6.5kg weight for this frameset, and with a little effort, sub 6kg is still possible, using mid-depth carbon rims.

[krusty50]

While on the topic of handlebars ... is there an easy way to figure out if the integrated cockpit from another manufacturer (ie: Lightcarbon's HBR17 or something similar off Aliexpress) is compatible with a frame from another brand ? (LTK266-D-SL in this case)

 I don't really dig the handlebar (LT-HB09) offered by Longteng so I'm wondering what my options would be.

[klrdd]

My build of the LTK266-D-SL is now finished! Bedded in the brakes this afternoon, and will be going on a group ride tomorrow after which I will post photos and share more thoughts about the ride itself. But a few details about the build and process:

I built my size 56 green glossy frame up with new SRAM Force E1 groupset and drivetrain (2x 48/35 cranks, 10/33 cassette). Integrated bar stem is a Tavelo Avro 380/130, Ryet 3d printed saddle, 9velo LV WIDE Series wheels (50mm depth, 24mm internal width) with Michelin Pro5 35mm TLR tires, Assioma DUO pedals, Tacx bottle cages. Weighs in at 7.3KG with cages, pedals, outfront mount. Given that each of the tires weighs 400g, this could be sub7 just by going to 28mm GP5Ks. With carbon spokes and a shallower carbon hoop, sub UCI weight limit.

The build went well--this was my first full bike build after doing nearly all wrenching and maintenance myself the past couple years. I handled most everything despite never having dealt with hydraulic disk brakes or fully internal before (coming from 2015 rim and 11s di2 land) and frankly it wasn't bad. I went to the shop a few times for help, first for the cranks (E1 is TIGHT even with SRAM's own T47 DUB BB) and secondly for centering the rotors--the relevant part for you fellow chinertowners. Unfortunately it does seem that the facing on the flat mount caliper on the fork wasn't ideal. My trusty mechanic was able to make it work without me needing to face it, but I will be borrowing the Park Tool from a friend soon to fix it once and for all.

IN ADDITION: it seems that Alisa/LT sent me either the wrong, or just a crappy, headset. I was provided with two 40×52×7 36/45 and a useless crown race. I emailed Alisa and she claimed I was sent "40*51.8*8（36°*45°)" bearings -- but this wasnt the case. To make the tavelo barstem work, I bought an FSA ACR NO.55R 1.5in headset -- which did come with 40*51.8*8 36/45 bearings (as well as the much needed c-ring, supplied neither by LT nor by panda podium/tavelo), so I could see the difference. The FSA bearings were higher quality and had a different chamfer that interfaced better with the headtube. The ones sent by LT got stuck when I tried dropping them in and had to be pried out (52mm vs 51.8 perhaps?). Again, the frame itself was near perfect in terms of measurements (flat mount facing excepted). That I even thought I might have been able to use them with the FSA spacers from Tavelo was user error on my part, but basically I would advise against getting headsets from these OEMs and just order the spec that you know will play perfectly with your own components.

I am very happy with the bike. The challenges with the headset and fork flat mount were bumps in the road which I attribute in part to my own inexperience with doing the China bike thing. I will try to write up my initial thoughts on the ride soon and send some pictures.

[Sakizashi]

While on the topic of handlebars ... is there an easy way to figure out if the integrated cockpit from another manufacturer (ie: Lightcarbon's HBR17 or something similar off Aliexpress) is compatible with a frame from another brand ? (LTK266-D-SL in this case)

 I don't really dig the handlebar (LT-HB09) offered by Longteng so I'm wondering what my options would be.

I would get an FSA NO.55 headset and then ask the handlebar maker for an FSA compatible adapter. FSA headsets are the most common so most companies make adapters, including Light Carbon.

The FSA kits are the going to be the way to go for most people. Replacement spares split spacers and C rings can be sourced in most places.

[oker_s]

I haven't tried to measure aero, but it's similar in feel to most all-arounders, possibly a bit worse due to the concessions made for tire clearance. However, all of that is erased by an aggressive body position. I bought an M, and it's a pretty aggressive geometry compared to the rest of the range. The S compares favorably to the 52 SL8, the M is more aggressive than the 54 SL8, and the L is less aggressive than the 56 SL8. Another factor is that I am running a custom bar that is also low and long, a custom headset cover, and a -17 degree 130mm stem.

Whats your size? I'm still unsure about the size because the difference between M and L is so huge! I think I'm a clear 54 or M (Canyon, etc.) for most frames! But I'm not sure about this! I'm about 180cm tall, but only have an inside leg length of 84.5cm. In this case im looking more to the L frame! Also Alisa recommended L!

And by the way: Are there any experiences with the 2 cockpits?

[contraptions]

first for the cranks (E1 is TIGHT even with SRAM's own T47 DUB BB)

Can you elaborate exactly what you mean by 'tight' here?  Did you need the single supplied spacer with the SRAM BB?  I've got the same combination ready to go when my frame arrives.

Thanks!

[Sakizashi]

Whats your size? I'm still unsure about the size because the difference between M and L is so huge! I think I'm a clear 54 or M (Canyon, etc.) for most frames! But I'm not sure about this! I'm about 180cm tall, but only have an inside leg length of 84.5cm. In this case im looking more to the L frame! Also Alisa recommended L!

And by the way: Are there any experiences with the 2 cockpits?

I am 170cm, but dont use my sizing on this frame as a reference. I am sizing up from what i would normally buy for length knowing I can get the stack down because I am using so many prototype/custom parts. Not only am I slamming my stem with a -17 using a custom headset cover you can also see that I am getting lower due to my lever position too.

I would guess that compared to a stock setup from Deda or FSA i am 40-45mm lower.

[klrdd]

I would get an FSA NO.55 headset and then ask the handlebar maker for an FSA compatible adapter. FSA headsets are the most common so most companies make adapters, including Light Carbon.

The FSA kits are the going to be the way to go for most people. Replacement spares split spacers and C rings can be sourced in most places.

This is what I did -- FSA no55 headset + Tavelo Bar-stem + Tavelo-supplied FSA adapter/spacers. Worked great.

Can you elaborate exactly what you mean by 'tight' here?  Did you need the single supplied spacer with the SRAM BB?  I've got the same combination ready to go when my frame arrives.
Thanks!

What I mean is that it is a b*tch to fit the nondriveside crank and spindle through the SRAM DUB T47 internal bb. This has nothing to do with the frame itself--just the way the SRAM components fit together. And yes I did need the single 3mm external driveside spacer. Given the chainstays/tire clearance it's needed for the fit on the LTK266. Now that it is set up it works perfectly. But I needed help to get it installed.

[Cheesecake]

Would be my first road bike after cycling thousands of kilometers on my trekking bike. Could L work for 187, with for my height long legs and short torso. This Chinese geometry talk terrefys me. The only bike the a shop let me try was a giant defy in M (m/l felt too large), any suggestions on how to proceed. Thanks a lot

[Sakizashi]

I think there are people on here who have literally the opposite idea of what a “chinese” or “Asian fit” bike is. Also remember that some western brands include their headset cover in the frame stack and reach numbers. None of these brands do.

The Asian fits are typically shorter reach at the same stack. Thats the theory. That said, this bike is a race bike meant to match up against bikes like the Tarmac SL8, Giant TCR and the Seka Spear.

A Defy is the wrong comp since thats an endurance bike not a race bike.

[klrdd]

My build of the LTK266-D-SL is now finished!

I took the bike out for a 2 hour team ride this morning here in the Northeast US. Photo attached, plus photos of the two BMC bikes that are my points of comparison. To be honest, I have to 100% echo Sakizashi:

Honestly, it's just a good bike to the point of being boring. Coming from my aggressive road bike, the bike feels slightly lazy.
This sounds like a downer review, but to me, it's the exact opposite. This bike is really good and really good at a lot of things, to the point where I didn't notice much about the bike because there weren't any apparent shortcomings. If you are looking for an aero-looking bike, this frame isn't it. If you are looking for a bike you can ride fast that builds up light, this is probably it.

He is so right, though to some degree I attribute this in part to running fat ass tires, as I am coming from putting 16K km over a yearish on a bike with exactly the same geo. The LTK266 just isn't that exciting I guess, but it is so so good at what it does. And I have to remind myself that that's why I bought it and built it up the way I did -- around running 36ish WAM slicks @ 50psi, yet still having a markedly lightweight bike just over 7kg. That it is so smooth and controlled is quite jarring coming from a decade old race/climber rim brake bike, but on my local roads it is a blessing and then some.

But the other thing is, the bike feels really stiff. I do not know how much this is due to the bars and wheels, too. Way stiffer than the 2015 BMC with 2015 35mm ENVE hoops, which is my reference point. Perhaps the LTK's stiffness would be jarring with skinny high pressure tires, but because I'm making use of the 35C clearance, it all evens out, and makes the bike very responsive, but not twitchy or chattery at all.

A month ago I rented a BMC Kaius 01 Three -- a race oriented gravel bike with very long reach and only 44 WAM clearance -- to do some gravel riding mostly on strade bianche type roads in southern Vermont (though also a little class 4 mixed in, which I wouldn't advise; I don't like being underbiked). It was fitted with SRAM Rival and 40mm Pirelli Cinturatos. The LTK feels very reminiscent of the Kaius in certain respects, but without the gravel geo and the extra weight. I'd put the similar feeling down, again, to it having SRAM componentry and similar width tubeless tires. Maybe once I put some more time in and get used to the Longteng, it will be something of the best of both worlds: The geo of the teammachine but the versatility and comfort of the Kaius. Pretty psyched tbh

[klrdd]

For fun here is a photo of the LTK266-D-SL size 56 alongside the 2015 BMC Teammachine SLR01 -- to see why I keep bringing it up, and also why I bought the LTK because it matches something I know works for me.

This might be helpful for those with misgivings about "asian fit geometry" on the one hand, or thinking the LTK is at all comparable to an endurance bike. It's not either of those things and can't really be considered on those terms -- at least in an L/56

The two bikes have identical stack, identical head and seat tube angles, only 5mm difference in reach and effective top tube. The LTK is a (slightly relaxed) race bike. The modern comps in terms of geo are, as Sakizashi has said, something like the Cannondale SSE or the BMC TM01 -- whereas the Scott Addict RC and Tarmac SL8 are, at least in my size, more aggressive. The added value of the LTK is the clearance (oh...and the price) if you can stomach doing without aero shaping of any kind. I've never had aero shaping, so I don't miss it.

P.S. plz forgive the spacers; the LTK steerer tube is getting chopped down to match its older brother sometime next week.