Velobuild VB-R-368 Aeroframe

[mchaggis]

@patliean1 thanks for the video, very informative.  Interesting to see your observations about with the saddle offset - this should work in my favour since I wanted mine further forward anyway.  Hoping I don't get the same issues with facing on the brake mounts, may have to spend some time cleaning them up.

Mine should be ready in a few days... just in time for Winter 

[Alexlp]

EDIT: As I was typing this, someone commented on my video regarding the length of my chain:

"Regarding the chainstay, have you tried eliminating one block of chain? It will lower the RD position. (I am not sure if your chain has become too short for the lowest cassette)."

I am using the same chain and length that was originally sized for a 50t chainring. Not 52t. Would that make a difference?

On a Shimano Ultegra derailleur, chain length only changes the cage angle, but it doesn't affect the position of the derailleur itself. The vertical position of the derailleur is adjusted with the Tension screw. Turning it lowers the derailleur, increasing the gap between the cassette sprockets and the cage pulley. SRAM should probably have a similar adjustment. A radical solution might be to use an extension cable, which is even used in the pro peloton, IMHO.

[pertual]

@patilean1 Thanks for the reply! as someone who would like to run this with both 1x and 2x depending on the event (crits or granfondos) on a wheeltop groupset it reassures me. I guess this and the weight was the final wall between me and ordering it.

[Alexlp]

Has anyone built a bike with an S(490) frame yet? Please share photos of the bike on the road and measurements!

[RoadieMKD]

On a Shimano Ultegra derailleur, chain length only changes the cage angle, but it doesn't affect the position of the derailleur itself. The vertical position of the derailleur is adjusted with the Tension screw. Turning it lowers the derailleur, increasing the gap between the cassette sprockets and the cage pulley. SRAM should probably have a similar adjustment. A radical solution might be to use an extension cable, which is even used in the pro peloton, IMHO.

Correct on the chain length and B tension screw. However, the circled part of the picture is a direct mount hanger which only works on Shimano SHADOW style RD and will absolutely not work with SRAM. The purpose of the direct mount hanger is to eliminate the B-link therefore making the whole system stiffer. The issue that Patrick is having is due to the design of the SRAM RD. It sits much more curled upwards compared to Ultegra RD. I do not think that he would have that issue with Shimano.

[Alexlp]

@patilean1 Please check how VB-R-368 fits on CYCPLUS T2?

[tovu]

@Alexlp - Thank you sir! This is super helpful and will test it out later on today's ride.

@pertual - It's only when in the final 10t cog which is exclusive to Sram. All the other cogs are totally fine. Like I said in the video you can clear chain stay simply by backing out of B-limit screw a couple of turns. Shifting is totally fine even under load. It's just not optimal to manufacturer spec.

Why hasn't anyone else in here reported this chain stay issue? I know there's at least 1-2 folks in here with complete builds. My strong suspicion is Shimano/non-Sram derailleurs don't have this issue. Their hardware isn't as beefy as Sram and the max cog is only 11t 

Finally, I swapped in a set of Yoeleo C60/88 pro wheels with larger 30c tires. This is way...

EDIT: As I was typing this, someone commented on my video regarding the length of my chain:

"Regarding the chainstay, have you tried eliminating one block of chain? It will lower the RD position. (I am not sure if your chain has become too short for the lowest cassette)."

I am using the same chain and length that was originally sized for a 50t chainring. Not 52t. Would that make a difference?

@patliean1 did you install the headset bearing with the angled surface (as shown in the picutre) facing inside the headset, or facing outside of the headset? you don't seem to have a wobbling fork (due to lack of mentioning it in your videos). whenever i press the front brake, handlebar and fork move slightly forward.

I'd like to think that I installed the headset bearings the wrong way

[patliean1]

@patliean1 did you install the headset bearing with the angled surface (as shown in the picutre) facing inside the headset, or facing outside of the headset? you don't seem to have a wobbling fork (due to lack of mentioning it in your videos). whenever i press the front brake, handlebar and fork move slightly forward.

I'd like to think that I installed the headset bearings the wrong way

Headset bearings are always installed with the outer 45° chamfer edge facing into the frame of each cup.

VeloBuild supplied a thin metal C-shaped headset shim. It allowed me to get proper headset compression without rubbing the frame.

[tovu]

Headset bearings are always installed with the outer 45° chamfer edge facing into the frame of each cup.

VeloBuild supplied a thin metal C-shaped headset shim. It allowed me to get proper headset compression without rubbing the frame.

cheers, appreciate the quick reply. Hope this fixes the issue

[Mario kart]

@patliean1 thanks for the video, very informative.  Interesting to see your observations about with the saddle offset - this should work in my favour since I wanted mine further forward anyway.  Hoping I don't get the same issues with facing on the brake mounts, may have to spend some time cleaning them up.

Mine should be ready in a few days... just in time for Winter 

I couldnt quite make sense of the bit of the video about seat offset and top tube. In my mind the only thing affecting seat offset is seat tube angle. Nothing with the front of the should matter.

If he is shifting the seat back because hes not getting enough reach with the seat forward, does he mean the geometry chart misrepresents the reach???

[KRoser]

Mario kart: Yeah, that chunky seat tube should not have any impact on your saddle setback. Seat tube angle is measured in middle of seatpost kind of no mather how thick seatpost is, but I think Patrick mentioned in video that Velobuild have 72° seat tube angle and Scot has 73°, but Velobuild according to their website geochart has 74° witch is pretty noticeable diference, maybe that geochart that Partick was looking at is not correct.

That bike looks pretty good, but men that frame hitting rear derailleur is pretty big oversight.

PS: difference between 74° and 73° at 750mm saddle height is 12.5mm and if he has higher saddle height difference will be even bigger, so Patrick needs to have saddle 13mm further back on Velobuild compare to Scott witch I think checks out.
PPS: attached geochart from official Velobuild website.

[patliean1]

The effective top tube length is the imaginary horizontal line from the center point of the seat post to the center point of the head tube.

Scott Foil RC L/56: Reach is 394.5   Effective Top Tube is 565  Seat Angle 73.7°

Aero Trace M/52: Reach is 396       Effective Top Tube is 553  Seat Angle 74°

I might have biffed the wording in the video. But essentially the geometry is misleading. The top tube on the Aero Trace is 12mm shorter despite the reach being 1.5mm longer. Yes and a steeper seat angle. And despite the whopping 10 centimeter range of fore/aft adjustment I still had to slam the saddle almost all the way backwards. My Scott Foil uses a 0mm offset post. And I don't have to push the saddle all the way back.

My suspicion is despite the top tube being measured from the center of the seat post, the 7cm width is effecting the overall tube length.

The main takeaway here is that I set up all my bikes the same no matter the front end. 78cm BB to saddle height. 9cm saddle setback. The reach of the front end is equal to all my other bikes. Not my first rodeo. Sram E1 levers at a bit of extra reach in my personal usage.

[mtm]

I guess the takeaway here is - as you also allude to in the video - that this is basically a TT version of a road bike. It's not really meant to be used with 9cm of setback - that's more climbing or endurance position. I get you did it to get in same position as your Foil, but the geometry is meant for a forward-rotated position akin to Dare, Ridley or the new Factor. If I were setting you up I'd have probably put you on the size 55 (unless standover height would become an issue) with a setback of more like 6cm and a 140mm stem with maybe 10-20mm fork steerer spacers. Worse for climbing or noodling around at 25 km/h, but better for all-out speed on the flat - exactly like the rest of the frame's design.

[Sakizashi]

I guess the takeaway here is - as you also allude to in the video - that this is basically a TT version of a road bike. It's not really meant to be used with 9cm of setback - that's more climbing or endurance position. I get you did it to get in same position as your Foil, but the geometry is meant for a forward-rotated position akin to Dare, Ridley or the new Factor. If I were setting you up I'd have probably put you on the size 55 (unless standover height would become an issue) with a setback of more like 6cm and a 140mm stem with maybe 10-20mm fork steerer spacers. Worse for climbing or noodling around at 25 km/h, but better for all-out speed on the flat - exactly like the rest of the frame's design.

This bike is not designed around the position that the Dare, Ridley, and Factor allow. This bike is best described as lower for the same reach as most bikes at the larger sizes, while very contemporary to a typical race bike at the smaller sizes. This is not an opinion and is based on the geometry charts.

While this bike offers a lot of fore-and-aft adjustment for the saddle, it's not long or low enough to compare with the Dare, Ridley, or new Factor. The Dare is a half measure IMO because of the STA, but the Ridley and the Factor embrace the new school, forward positioning, and are 15-25mm longer reach than the 368 while being 10mm lower in comparable sizes. Crucially, those bikes also have similarly longer wheel bases.

[aeroquest]

Headset bearings are always installed with the outer 45° chamfer edge facing into the frame of each cup.

VeloBuild supplied a thin metal C-shaped headset shim. It allowed me to get proper headset compression without rubbing the frame.

Are you planning to ride this frame in the future and record more videos?
The frame looks damn interesting, but the quality scares me. I choose heavy aero frames for myself at a price of 1000-1500 $ and I am confused by the price of this frame, whether it can be really high-quality.