[Help Wanted] High-End SL8-Like OEM Frame – T1100/EPS/UD Raw

[gandalftw]

Cause ALL the sl8 like frames on Ali are counted as fakes just as mine
Mine only have decals but they all use the same mold
Only different manufacturers and some are the same.
But that’s fine who cares you won’t see me post this bike again

[Sander2177]

Well, Serge is right — I am a bit precious about the genuine SL8. Unless you’re a pro or have money to burn, no one wants to crash. I’ve got the bike insured, but let’s be honest — that doesn’t really help. If you have to claim, it’s usually a nightmare, and your premium will shoot up the next year.

That said, I absolutely love that bike. But I’m also really pleased with what I’ve built using the X68. Sure, the frame might be an SL8 copy, but for $600 USD it’s great value. The fork issue isn’t great, but then I watched RhinoWorkshop’s Instagram stories where he was building up the new V5RS — and he was pointing out just how crap it was. That frame costs £5,500, and it looked shockingly bad.

Whether it’s £600 or £6,000, in the end it all comes down to one thing: margins and profits.

[glepore]

Not the only Colnago with issues, look at the last few posts in the WW v4rs thread. A shocking number have shown up with toptube defects, apparently due to finish work weakening the bonded area. So there's that.

[Sakizashi]

IDK, i think you all are reading too much into the idea that higher cost should equal higher quality of manufacturing.

A lot of the cost of bike frames comes from trying to engineer out every little bit of advantage. Whether or not the frame is made well is almost a different question. Obviously, the best brands manage to do both, but Colnago...is Colnago. It's worth noting that Astana is riding frames from XDS this year, and at retail, where they are sold, they are more expensive than the frames used by:
1. Q 36.5 who runs the standard, not SL, Scott Addict HMX
2. AG2R on any of their Van Rysels
3. Intermarche on their Cube bikes

While they are cheaper than Giant and I think Merida frames, owning the production from end to end does not seem to be helping XDS churn out a cheaper bike.

That said, I think buying a lower-spec Scott Addict (like Rival or 105 di2) and then modding it with wheels, cranks, and a cockpit from XMCarbonspeed seems like the way to go, cost-wise, if you want to have a lower-cost rocket of a bike.

[Edited for clarity]

[glepore]

Nah. I don't think the folks here are here bc we think that the larger brands have a higher inherent quality. They do most likely have higher q/c. But not order of magnitude.
I have good friends on Colnagos, but they also wear watch brands that ae known to churn etc. Colnago was special in the 90's and aughts, but now are just pretty much in Campy's court, let's be the LV of bikes. Yeah, they spent a ton of money on the YR to optimize shapes but apparently ignored other factors. Tadej could win on a Huffy.

I don't disagree that out and out fakes are perhaps morally bankrupt, but to some extent tantan et al have shown that the emperor has no clothes. 

[tssy5]

IDK, i think you all are reading too much into the idea that higher cost should equal higher quality of manufacturing.

A lot of the cost of bike frames comes from trying to engineer out every little bit of advantage. Whether or not the frame is made well is almost a different question. Obviously, the best brands manage to do both, but Colnago...is Colnago. It's worth noting that Astana is riding frames from XDS this year, and at retail, where they are sold, they are more expensive than the frames used by:
1. Q 36.5 who runs the standard, not SL, Scott Addict HMX
2. AG2R on any of their Van Rysels
3. Intermarche on their Cube bikes

While they are cheaper than Giant and I think Merida frames, owning the production from end to end does not seem to be helping XDS churn out a cheaper bike.

That said, I think buying a lower-spec Scott Addict (like Rival or 105 di2) and then modding it with wheels, cranks, and a cockpit from XMCarbonspeed seems like the way to go, cost-wise, if you want to have a lower-cost rocket of a bike.

[Edited for clarity]

Out of curiosity, can I ask you a question? Do you believe for most branded bike frames, they cost significantly higher because they geniunely are "trying to engineer out every little bit of advantage"?

[Sakizashi]

Yes. But it's not a compliment. It doesn't always seem to work out.

A lot of folks here seem to look at a Factor (since we know the cost) or SL8 and see that they spend ~400USD on carbon that they must be rolling in the profits, but they aren't.

Other than Specialized, no brand that makes multiple layups of their frames have the top ones raced at the highest level. Another huge reason these bikes cost more are things like Scott using a 1 1/16 eccentric steerer on the Addict or Cannondale's delta steerer for a slimmed down front end. You end up probably with a 2x multiplier over factory cost to help pay for layups that aren't raced and the engineering hours that go into those small changes across the design. Combine that with costs to support retail operations and you end up with frames that cost 5-6x their factory cost at retail. That multiple doesnt even include better QC or paying for better factory employees. I think it's telling that even the Chinese brands connected to these factories trying to replicate the big brand model arent really doing better. It it worth the premium?

Thats up to you to decide, but I picked up the LTK-266-SL because I wanted the regular ol 1 1/8 steerer, 52mm headset bearings, and the Ritchey style saddle clamp. Yes its basically a collection of reference designs, but I prefer that in my case

[patliean1]

but I picked up the LT-K266-SL because I wanted the regular ol 1 1/8 steerer, 52mm headset bearings, and the Ritchey style saddle clamp. Yes its basically a collection of reference designs, but I prefer that in my case

I cannot stress enough how practical and pragmatic this design approach to frames has been for me this season. My last 3 or 4 bike builds have all coincidentally used the FSA bearing standard for the headset. Being able to swap ACR/SMR handlebars, spacers, and headset dust covers like FSA No.69 has made my building experience actually pleasurable. Even Peter's XM CarbonSpeed new 1-piece cockpit uses the FSA standard.

[Sakizashi]

What does that mean, could you please link to the stuff you're talking about? That sounds important and I like simplicity. Most OEM frames come with roughly the same spacers, but there are variations and it can get messy. Definitely interested in something standardised that works.
Cost wise, is there an OEM version, or you HAVE to buy from FSA?
Thanks

FSA, Deda, and Token designs share the same reference design, where the 45-degree chamfer for the bearing sits 8.7mm below the top edge of the headtube. The headtube is sized for nominal 52mm bearings (this is 51.8mm in practice since you tolerance small as this is not a pressfit). This means that any frame following the reference should be able to have a headset replaced with any of those brands. The LTK 266 SL does follow the reference as should any frame that lists the FSA No. 55 ACR as its primary headset. If you want to save yourself a headache, buy one of these frames.

Regarding headsets, I would still buy them from FSA, Deda, or Token as they are the OEM option used by most big brands. If you only want to buy bearings in bulk, I would recommend the ACB518K or MR127 (same bearing). You can then buy ACR-compatible C Rings and top caps from FSA or Deda in bulk. I doubt this will save any money, though Deda does usually include the C ring and top cap to fit this specific bearing with their stems and bars and some aftermarket barstem options do the same.

[patliean1]

@Sakizashi summed it up very well. Thank you kind sir!

[Uberflo]

And regarding the bearings you can get all different versions from Kugellager-Shop, even the SLT option that CeramicSpeed sells for a bunch of money. Sometimes you have to buy bearings with different height to match design approaches of some framesets.

[Sakizashi]

And regarding the bearings you can get all different versions from Kugellager-Shop, even the SLT option that CeramicSpeed sells for a bunch of money. Sometimes you have to buy bearings with different height to match design approaches of some framesets.

A frame that is truly using the reference design should use two bearings of the same size. These headset companies have it figured out; it's the bike frame designers that ruin this for us, just like custom versions of UDH, and bottom brackets, etc.

Kugellager-Shop does not sell stainless steel solid oil bearings, like those used by CeramicSpeed. I don't think there is any application for stainless solid oil except for bikes, and I would rather get a regular stainless bearing than black oxide + solid oil. If I were a heavy rider who damaged headset bearings by making the notchy over time, I would think about the solid oil option more favorably.

[Uberflo]

In my case, the lower bearing uses 8 mm height whereas the upper bearing comes with 7 mm. You also have to change the lower bearing if the fork uses an integrated crown race as FSA ACR has a different inner angle of 36 degree.

You are right, the solid oil bearings from Kugellager Shop use black oxide. But overall you get a broad choice of every bearing you need.

[NicoCarbonH]

If you knew more about the OEM market, you'd probably realize that there's less difference between your dream frame and a 500$ frame, i can guarantee you that. It doesn't sound like you have a great grasp of the value chain, where markups are added and so on. That said, by all means, spend your money. You want a boutique bike, kudos to you, enjoy it.

One interesting recent note: Sander on the forum, riding his Sworks and his tantan, wrote that riding the sworks now gives him anxiety because of how much money he sunk in it, and the fear of breaking something on it. I thought that made a ton of sense. I have a friend with an sworks, he's kind of the same. I made him ride 2 gravel sections in the last few weeks during rides, both super tame, and he went aaaaaape shit because he was afraid his frame would get scratched. He straight up insulted me. He kind of spent his wife's money on it.

I'll go wipe down the sweat on my $400 frame now

Ah yes, the classic “all frames are basically the same once the sticker’s off” theory.
Thanks for the OEM economics 101, really enlightening. I guess the only thing separating a 500$ clone from a clean EPS-molded T1100 layup is… ignorance? Or maybe a sticker printer shortage in Shenzhen?
Appreciate the perspective — but let’s not confuse price with spec.

I’m not chasing logos or paying retail markups. I’m not building a wall ornament either. This is a focused, research-driven build exploring the upper edge of OEM capabilities:
   •   EPS molding only (no bladders)
   •   Layups with verified high-modulus zones
   •Target frame weight under 800g
   •Confirmed geometry, tolerances and molding method

That’s a different pursuit from buying generic shells and crossing fingers.
If someone wants a $500 gravel beater and sleeps well at night — good for them.

But saying “there’s no real difference” between a carefully engineered layup and a random bladder-molded replica? That only shows you’ve never studied real layups up close — let alone cracked one open.

And sure, if I already knew everything about the OEM world, I’d clearly not be here asking smart people for help, right?
Anyway, cool story about your friend having trauma over his S-Works. Sounds like he needs a therapist more than a new bike;)

[patliean1]

There has been an uptick of individuals joining this forum with blatantly self-serving behavior, yet failing to read the room of whom the experienced folks are in here.

I'm not the morality or etiquette police. And this isn't Weight Weenies. This is sub-genre forum of well-meaning people who can look past the BS of most major brands. Perhaps contributing in a productive manner rather than disregarding the people who have already answered your question would have you fare better in here.

We looking forward to seeing your contributions in the coming months.