XMCS - 2026 VRT

[bastianb]

To me It's not just the ridge itself that's problematic, it's what it indicates about the shape of the blade above it. I won't rewrite what I already wrote. You can see Factor got this very wrong on the Hanzo and fixed it on the Hanzo Track and One. And yes, I do think that until relatively recently, a lot of designers were doing this wrong, but it's less negative on narrow forks

And it's way more than 8 degrees. It's tilted about as much as the head tube, almost like the fork was designed to stand perfectly vertical

The front on shot that requiem posted is also very suspicious to me, because it's looking at the bike from above and it looks like it's pretty much the perfect angle to line up with the angle of the upper part of the blade, considering how thin it looks in that picture. I'm confident that if you looked at it when the bike and the camera were perfectly horizontal, it would present a significantly larger frontal area, also indicating that, again, if you sliced it with a vertical plane, the cross section would look like a wing pointing upwards like it's trying to generate extra lift.

The downward washing of the air maybe leads to less interference with your knees or the big two cylinder like limbs hanging down of the sides of your saddle. Or the lift is for less rolling resistance of the front tire just joking and maybe it is a 0.2 watts difference without a rider…

[sgm_look]

The problem with going close to the 2k usd mark is you are then competing with a different level of competition (winspace, Tavelo etc.) which will all have a higher level of resale value and high quality control. Not for one second saying that Xmcs isn't at the same quality level (I'm very very happy with my bike)

Totally agree. Additionally, Winspace, Tavelo, Quick Pro all sponsor Conti/WT-level teams and are proven viable race frames. Also Winspace does wind tunnel testing (can't recall if Tavelo Arow or QP ER completed wind tunnel testing). We know Peter puts out good wheels but frames are a big question mark at that price and likely DOA, with the exception of XMCS followers. To summarize, the onus will be on XMCS to prove they justify the price in an already competitive market.

[Icyseanfitz]

I'll vouch for Peter putting good frames out, but if I'm spending over 1.5k on a frame I need to be able to resell it, the draw of DTC Chinese frames is the value and low cost imo

[Requiem84]

The GT frame started at 1500usd too and is now 1200 usd.

I am surprised at the ‘surprise’ .

As for the quality: the proof of the eating is in the pudding, so also for me it will be exciting to test the new aero frame once we get it. Based on the people who analysed the GT frame (Hambini), and GT frame customers and the xmcs commitment/pride in their quality - I expect a very high standard / quality.

[toxin]

Eh, I think it will be fine commercially. Hambini, Lino and Chinertown give the brand a decent bit of exposure and confirmation of quality and their reputation for wheels will bring enough visitors to the website. These probably won't be a spectacle that breaches out of their current sphere like the Incolor SSR and Seka Spear were, but I would be surprised if they ended up as failures.

[bsharp77]

The GT started out at $1200 and even that was enough to stop me.
It was up against the LCR018-D from Light carbon which offered serious value and a quality product.

I don’t think there’s any question over Peters quality of frame - he’s well enough established, especially to anyone commenting on here.

The GT is an easier sale as it’s an endurance based bike - everything is dependent on geometry to achieve the bikes goal, and is easily quantifiable and understood by the potential customer. 
 
The aero frame is a different beast. Geometry here is not the selling point. Aero is.
Offering up a frame at $1500 with no CFD or any sort of aero test figures is an extremely hard sell.

Don’t get me wrong - I want the frame to be good and for Peter to have a success with this.
For me to purchase there either needs to be a better value proposition to make it worth a punt, or there needs to be some sort of hard figures from a wind tunnel ran against a couple of competitors - if not, the risk is just not worth it.

[Ludo]

I would echo the same sentiment. To succeed at that price point will take marketing budget, is free frames out to “influencers” and possibly cost sharing of wind testing with one of the large media.
After it’s all down to capital, the monobloc mold cost a lot but to find market in that upper tier field is not easy

[toxin]

I am critical in hopes of prompting improvement. Despite my criticisms, I actually think the aero frame will perform fine by virtue of the low overall frontal area it's presenting. The head tube is very narrowed, the seat tube isn't extremely narrow but it's not overly wide, the seat stays and fork blades look at about the minimum allowed thickness. Obviously it'll be lacking refinement compared to the mainstream brands. XMCS doesn't have the library of optimised tube cross sections of Specialized and they can't afford to spend a year tweaking the designs they have. Yeah you're leaving potential on the table but I can understand that, at this point in their growth, that's just something they have to accept. It won't be going toe to toe with the Factor One, but it won't be a parachute either.

[Requiem84]

Don’t get me wrong - I want the frame to be good and for Peter to have a success with this.
For me to purchase there either needs to be a better value proposition to make it worth a punt, or there needs to be some sort of hard figures from a wind tunnel ran against a couple of competitors - if not, the risk is just not worth it.

The Quick Pro ER:ONE and AR:ONE came on the market without aero testing in the 2k price category and have been a home run.

What I see - and feel free to correct me, is aero testing by Seka, Incolor and Evolve. With Evolve the cheapest of those af 2300 USD. Edit: Winspace apparently too, saw that they tested the T1600 2400 usd).

Anyway, we will do some outdoor aero testing, and if anyone lives in the Netherlands with a frame that he wants to compare by me drop me a note. Must be a size 54/56. I will compare it to my own Aeroad and for fun against me Noah GR201.

[Evaso_CC]

If anything - it looks like we might be in for a year of some sense coming back into pricing - and finally manufacturers producing bikes with modern geometries.

First example of the year is coming from Rose with the Shave.
Endurance geo, but very aero (race geo also available with the FF model), full bike with 105 di2 and a power meter for €3600.

Starts to put a lot of pressure on frame sets like Peter's at the price point proposed.
I really like the look of the new frames Peter has designed, but we have no performance data CFD or anything to go by, whereas the Rose are producing figures that at least mean "something".

Im banking on Light Carbon to bring out a nice aero frame at a killer price point, similar to what they did with the LCR018-D.
If its coming in under $1000, then its easier to take a punt on it, whereas once you creep into the $1500 and above range, there are just too many tried and tested options.

Rose are not known for their QC - it’s cheap for a reason.

[bsharp77]

Rose are not known for their QC - it’s cheap for a reason.

Rose are as good as any of the rest of the western manufacturers, and I’m only pointing them out as an example. Surely more will follow this trend.

[Requiem84]

It seems my little private aero test project is obsolete already…

Apparently Peter is already in conversation for real wind tunnel testing of the new frames this year.

 

[bsharp77]

Absolutely excellent.
Thanks for the update - and well done Peter.
Fingers crossed for some good results.

[halflight]

Wouldn't mind if XMCS spent more time to refine the aero frame after the wind tunnel testing or even implement the changes toxin suggested, like a slimmer seat post (similar to how Factor does it with Di2 battery near bottom bracket) and improving the fork area. With such changes, this bike would tick so many boxes.

[Pistonbroke]

It seems my little private aero test project is obsolete already…

Apparently Peter is already in conversation for real wind tunnel testing of the new frames this year.

 

Ooo, could be a game changer