Tavelo Arden

[BeR]

I cant understand how this works. Most FD have no issue with 40-42mm tires, unless the issue is the RD cable for a mechanical setup

I don't know but this is the information I got.

[Chineseweaklegrider]

TAVELO founders are those original WINSPACE design team, now WINSPACE in China is kind of social death. Winspace boss is a very stupid person for performing silly, real riders already stop buying WINSPACE bikes anymore.

[patliean1]

TAVELO founders are those original WINSPACE design team, now WINSPACE in China is kind of social death. Winspace boss is a very stupid person for performing silly, real riders already stop buying WINSPACE bikes anymore.

Here in Chicago our premier elite race team just received their Winspace M6s and T1550 earlier this month. Both the mens and women teams. A few of them will be at Nationals this weekend on said bikes. Sure there was a discount, but they still had to pay for them. I also get plenty of private messages from individuals customers who've recently purchased Winspace bikes.

Who or what is a real rider?

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Here in Chicago our premier elite race team just received their Winspace M6s and T1550 earlier this month. Both the mens and women teams. A few of them will be at Nationals this weekend on said bikes. Sure there was a discount, but they still had to pay for them. I also get plenty of private messages from individuals customers who've recently purchased Winspace bikes.

Who or what is a real rider?

I am not saying any riders overseas, not here to have any beef with anybody, if you like WINSPACE its fine, go ahead, no problem with me, I am just telling the story in China.

[Serge_K]

TAVELO founders are those original WINSPACE design team, now WINSPACE in China is kind of social death. Winspace boss is a very stupid person for performing silly, real riders already stop buying WINSPACE bikes anymore.

Similar to the thread on Spect Strada, i think users here would benefit from details around your claim that the winspace boss is "very stupid". What makes you say that? You may well be right, but without explanation, it doesnt carry much weight.
Also, i didnt know that the original design team from winspace became the tavelo founders. That's actually very interesting, and would explain a lot, because clearly, winspace has been losing steam in the last couple of years on western social media and on this forum, whereas Tavelo is gaining a lot of popularity on youtube and on this forum.
Do you know the names of the people in that winspace team that founded winspace?

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Similar to the thread on Spect Strada, i think users here would benefit from details around your claim that the winspace boss is "very stupid". What makes you say that? You may well be right, but without explanation, it doesnt carry much weight.
Also, i didnt know that the original design team from winspace became the tavelo founders. That's actually very interesting, and would explain a lot, because clearly, winspace has been losing steam in the last couple of years on western social media and on this forum, whereas Tavelo is gaining a lot of popularity on youtube and on this forum.
Do you know the names of the people in that winspace team that founded winspace?

Again and again, their boss name is Huacai 花菜, the issue is China's domestic problem, I know you guy may think Taiwan is not part of China, but this topic in China is not the same, personally we regard Taiwan is a part of China for sure, so I dont want to bring any politics here, Chinese denying WINSPACE brand is all about he was saying Taiwan is a country and he loves Japan more than China which is his own country. I dont want to hear any hate speech here against China, but this is what happend, you want me to explain, here I did for you.
So I hope you could respect us for what we stand for, you could keep your opinion, So I could keep mine, please do not debate with me for any politcs here.
In 2024 I paid deposit 500USD for WINSPACE C5 but they didnt send the bike in time, so I canceled the order. And in 2025 the boss 花菜 said stupid words in Wechat group, after that WINSPACE brand reputation was as same as the rat on street.
This link you could see some dealers will cancel WINSPACE bikes after the speech.

https://www.xiaohongshu.com/explore/6847a186000000002301cb2d?app_platform=ios&app_version=9.33.3&share_from_user_hidden=true&xsec_source=app_share&type=normal&xsec_token=CBJ08Iq10Lev_wvOKg6FCuVjraOBxQK9hrcJVd8BXDiZ0=&author_share=1&xhsshare=CopyLink&shareRedId=N0w2N0Y2OkE2NzUyOTgwNjY0OTdGPTZM&apptime=1781795076&share_id=3c6cf036508e4af1a1884a4e8bea988f

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9755256328
This link you could find the TAVELO and WINSPACE business battle.
踏为乐 is TAVELO

AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT ARGUR WITH ME ON ANY POLITIC TOPIC, THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING.

Use AI to give you more details:

Here is an English explanation of the situation, tailored for a foreign cyclist or observer:

Winspace is a 100% mainland Chinese brand, not Taiwanese. The controversy surrounding its CEO, nicknamed "Hua Cai," stems from a major PR crisis regarding a sensitive political slip-up.

Here is the full breakdown of the incident:

1. Who is "Hua Cai"?
"Hua Cai" (花菜, meaning "Cauliflower") is a mocking nickname given by the Chinese cycling community to Stephen Cai (Cai Zhengchang), the founder and CEO of Winspace.

In Chinese internet slang, his surname "Cai" (蔡) sounds exactly like the word for "vegetable" or "rookie" (菜). Because netizens felt he handled the situation poorly, they started calling him "Hua Cai" to mock him for being foolish or unprofessional.

2. The Trigger: A WeChat Group Slip-up
In May 2024, a screenshot from a private WeChat group for bicycle dealers was leaked online. During a casual discussion about cycling races and riders, Stephen Cai used the phrase "Taiwanese national team" (台湾国家队).

For mainland Chinese citizens, referring to Taiwan as a "nation" or having a "national team" crosses a strict political red line regarding the One-China principle.

3. The Backlash and Boycott
The screenshot quickly went viral across Chinese cycling forums, Bilibili, and social media. Mainland cyclists were furious. They felt that the CEO of a successful Chinese brand—one that heavily markets itself as a proud "domestic brand" (国货) and profits from mainland consumers—was politically compromised.

This led to a massive wave of order cancellations, public boycotts, and heavy criticism. People accused him of "smashing the bowl after eating the food" (biting the hand that feeds him).

4. The Apology Video
Facing immense public pressure and a severe blow to the brand's reputation, Stephen Cai released an emergency public apology video late at night.

In the video, he looked solemn, bowed deeply to the camera, and admitted to his "poor choice of words and lack of political sensitivity."

He explicitly clarified his stance by stating firmly, "Taiwan is not a country," and begged the cycling community for forgiveness and a chance to make amends.

Summary
In short, the "Hua Cai" drama was a massive PR disaster caused by the CEO's careless wording in a group chat, which touched a very sensitive political nerve in China. While he quickly apologized and reaffirmed his pro-China stance to save the brand, the mocking nickname "Cauliflower" has permanently stuck to him in the domestic cycling community.





This image is a screenshot of a WeChat Moments post published around June 2025 by a physical bicycle dealership in mainland China named "Single Bike - Xiao Pan" (单车行-肖攀), referencing the file 银贝斯大清仓｜具体原因，如图所示_1_单车行-肖攀_来自小红书网页版.jpg.

It documents the real-world financial fallout and the severe breakdown in relations between Winspace and its offline dealers following the CEO's political PR crisis.

Here is the detailed English translation and breakdown of the post:

1. The Trigger (The Political Controversy)
The post starts by stating: "On May 22nd, Winspace's inappropriate remarks prompted us to reflect on the brand..." This explicitly confirms that the shop decided to boycott Winspace due to the incident where CEO Stephen Cai made the controversial "Taiwanese national team" remark in a dealer group chat.

2. Behind-the-Scenes Conflict Between the Shop and Winspace
The Initial Deal: After the controversy broke out, the shop decided to clear out its Winspace inventory. To suppress negative word-of-mouth, Winspace privately contacted the shop and promised to buy back all remaining stock, on the condition that the shop delete their social media posts calling for a boycott. Winspace promised to resolve everything by the end of May.

Winspace Backing Out: By June 5th, Winspace failed to follow through smoothly. Instead, they claimed that most of the frames failed "QC (Quality Control) inspections due to defects" and refused to take them back. The shop owner, Xiao Pan, furiously exposed this tactic, noting that they had shipped 13 brand-new, factory-sealed bikes back to Winspace. Winspace claimed that the number of frames passing QC was less than the number of boxes that hadn't even been opened yet. The shop called this "a blatant excuse to back out of the deal."

3. The Shop's Final Decision (The Fire Sale)
Feeling deceived and manipulated by the brand, the shop owner decided to cut ties completely and publicize the dispute, announcing an aggressive clearance policy:

Massive Price Cuts: The shop put all Winspace frames on a fire sale, slashing prices by 3,000 to 6,000 RMB (approx. $400 - $800 USD) per frame.

Taking Over the Warranty: Anticipating that Winspace would retaliate by refusing to honor product warranties for these cut-rate sales, the owner wrote: "If the brand acts shamelessly and refuses to provide after-sales service, our bike shop will take full financial and legal responsibility for the warranty."

Summary
This screenshot perfectly illustrates how the CEO's political slip-up didn't just hurt the brand's image among consumers—it actively damaged the livelihoods of its domestic dealer network. It led to a bitter, public fallout where a dealer chose to lose significant money, dump inventory at a massive discount, and absorb all future warranty risks just to sever ties with Winspace permanently.

[Willos]

This matter doesn't seems to have any indication that the winspace frame are bad or that the winspace boss is stupid.

[Chineseweaklegrider]

This matter doesn't seems to have any indication that the winspace frame are bad or that the winspace boss is stupid.

You see, you could keep your opinion, I could have mine. The thoughts are different, if you like it, keep buying, no problem.

[Serge_K]

please do not debate with me for any politcs here.

Thanks for the clarification.
On Taiwan vs China, i believe in realpolitik. I think the west cares largely because of the dependence on the semi conductors industry. In terms of balance of power, it would be bad for the west if Taiwan were absorbed by China, because that would give China enormous leverage.
Beyond that, in truth, i think few people in the west care much. And i would bet that most of us are very ignorant of the topic.

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov (born 1920, died 1992)

[Sakizashi]

Political roots of the dispute aside and working through some translation issues:

What i got from this is Winspace claimed that returns from a dealer that wanted out of their arrangement failed inspection and were damaged despite being in factory sealed boxes. The allegation is that Winspace was not honest with their dealers, correct? This is bad. If they are willing to do this to a dealer with a larger platform in the domestic market, what are the chances they will do right by a consumer halfway across the world with no leverage or platform?

Trust is what makes business work. To me, and people may call this foolish — trust that a supplier will do right by their orders matters more than price, more even than experience. In my still young foray into the bike industry, there have been more challenges than I expected, but a few issues on a product don't change the perspective. Doing the right things when things go wrong and not hiding the shit is how businesses build loyalty to each other. Yes, it's a very old-school, largely Western way of thinking about deal criteria, but it also speaks to a long-term intention to build something together. Culture and values matter — and there seem to be plenty of Chinese companies and people who agree with this view.

This also has nothing to do with Tavelo, right? So we should feel OK buying an Arden?

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Political roots of the dispute aside and working through some translation issues:

What i got from this is Winspace claimed that returns from a dealer that wanted out of their arrangement failed inspection and were damaged despite being in factory sealed boxes. The allegation is that Winspace was not honest with their dealers, correct? This is bad. If they are willing to do this to a dealer with a larger platform in the domestic market, what are the chances they will do right by a consumer halfway across the world with no leverage or platform?

Trust is what makes business work. To me, and people may call this foolish — trust that a supplier will do right by their orders matters more than price, more even than experience. In my still young foray into the bike industry, there have been more challenges than I expected, but a few issues on a product don't change the perspective. Doing the right things when things go wrong and not hiding the shit is how businesses build loyalty to each other. Yes, it's a very old-school, largely Western way of thinking about deal criteria, but it also speaks to a long-term intention to build something together. Culture and values matter — and there seem to be plenty of Chinese companies and people who agree with this view.

This also has nothing to do with Tavelo, right? So we should feel OK buying an Arden?

The dealers want to stop selling WINSPACE after WINSPACE CEO Huacai’s principal statement of politic. So WINSPACE agrees but they want the dealers to delete the posts on social media, they don’t want the dealers to quit for this sensitive reason. The dealers don’t agree so WINSPACE rejected the return. That’s the story.
For TAVELO brand, I can not give any feedback, sorry for this, I don’t have friends riding Tavelo, myself never saw TAVELO in my city, Hangzhou.

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Thanks for the clarification.
On Taiwan vs China, i believe in realpolitik. I think the west cares largely because of the dependence on the semi conductors industry. In terms of balance of power, it would be bad for the west if Taiwan were absorbed by China, because that would give China enormous leverage.
Beyond that, in truth, i think few people in the west care much. And i would bet that most of us are very ignorant of the topic.

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov (born 1920, died 1992)

You’re welcome, I believe all friends here are bike loving people, so we should focus more on the bikes.
I read many same opinions of your on Facebook of some Taiwanese bicycle industry OG, his name is David Dai, now the mainland China industries and rest of the world are totally different. So that’s why you guys come to this forum right? Put politics aside let’s enjoy cycling and study new Chinese bicycle products too!

[jrasero]

I am really interested in the Tavelo Arden.  Currently trying to pre-order it with Underdogs Cycling in Toronto and have it shipped to the US.  The owner of UDC (Edward) the "cracked blue" paint job can be ordered but it's 3 week wait time, which is fine.  He quoted me $2050 shipped with the Riser bar upgrade ($50) for the non SL version.  That original Arrow is $1650 and Rise bar $230 from Panda Podium would be $1930 before shipping, granted the rise bar is sold out on PP and can't be pre-ordered 

I really want to use 35mm GP5000 S TR on these on a 23mm internal wheel, any chance this can be run 2X on Shimano Di2 FD?

 As per the Winspace being a crappy brand I will say, they are just their own worse enemy IMO.  I bought the T1500 Disc during the COVID boom and it was a very good bike with some glaring negatives even for the price.  I then built a T1550 and a SLC3.  After the SLC3 I refused to buy from Winspace anymore, not because the quality or the performance, but because every 6 months a new model would come out and essentially supersede the model you just bought.  At least with Specialzed or Cannondale you don't have the FOMO once you buy since they traditionally run on three year cycles.  You can complain about the raised prices and I think $2800+ for their frames no matter how good they think they are is just wrong because that's getting dangerously close to Western brands that actually have men's world tour teams, LBS support, and actual wind tunnel data ie a Specialized Tarmac SL8 frame is $3500 or now $3K on sale and has been the benchmark bike for years now.  Why would I get an SLC5 over the SL8?  Just like the T1550 shortly being superseded by the T1550 2nd gen we now have the T1600 Ultra now at $2550 from the T1600 $2400.  I also have the qualm that Winspace borders of cheesy IMO, ie the T1600 Team Red Bull knockoff in the "Vuelta Red" just screams cringe.  The other issue is that yeah Winspace got many people hooked on their Hyper Wheels, but have not come close to keeping up with people like Elite Wheels, CraftWorks, Farsports, and many other when it comes to specs and even price.  My last issue with Winspace is that I live in the burbs of NYC and ride 9W often and for people not aware of 9W it's just a stretch of highway that a lot of people from NY/NJ use to cycle, however it's kind of a litmus test to see what people are riding and what's hot.  Occasionally I will see Winspace bikes but a lot of them are he T1550 2nd gen probably because besides the M6 that was one of the last "affordable" frames they built.  Either way I see so many Quick Pros now, which brings up the point that even though Quick Pro has one of the worse names it kind of has become the "it" brand for Chinese bikes now.  If you ask the Nero boys, they feel the brand is overplayed in Australia.

Now this brings me to Tavelo.  Patty in his video said it best, the owner of Tavelo isn't putting out a ton of different bikes.  The Arrow still is out there after a couple year at the same $1650.  They just got into gravel and the Arden is on the verge of being released.  That would mean they have four models while Winspace has 10 active framesets.       

Also funny story the guy from UDC was pretty competitive with Joe from Panda Podium.  Not going to get into it but let's just say he probably isn't a massive fan of the guy.  Secondly, he was defiantly pushing me towards the Incolor SR which has 38mm tire clearance.  It's about $500 more and a more race geo, but as he put it, in his eyes Incolor is the Pinarello of China bikes quality wise and Tavelo might be Cannondale or Specialized quality.  I am interested in the Incolor SR and Tavelo Arden mainly because I think big name Western brands have now hit a wall with road bikes, in that I think we are still at bare min two years away from being two years away from Western brands coming out with race bikes that officially can support a 35mm if not 40mm tire.  I know a lot of old heads scoff at the idea of needing anything more than a 28mm tire let alone a 30mm-32mm tire, but I have said for ages give me more rubber!  Just more comfort and faster overall and simply more versatile.  Sure you can reverse engineer a progressive gravel bike like the Cervelo Aspero5 and put on some slicks, but that's a $8800 bike and that frame while awesome isn't what we call light at 1000g+.  ie the Cervelo Aspero5 while an great do it all bike, is more akin to a last gen Aero bike, while this new Tavelo Arden could be like an all-road Gen 4 SuperSix EVO in the sub 900g range. 

[jrasero]

Here in Chicago our premier elite race team just received their Winspace M6s and T1550 earlier this month. Both the mens and women teams. A few of them will be at Nationals this weekend on said bikes. Sure there was a discount, but they still had to pay for them. I also get plenty of private messages from individuals customers who've recently purchased Winspace bikes.

Who or what is a real rider?

Patty I believe this 100% has to do with price point.  When your local team is racing a $2850 Winspace let me know.  To be fair I'll give Winspace their flowers for the M6, since it's an affordable aero bike that fixes the issues with the T1600 and SLC5 while providing modern features like UDH and is able to run Winspace's new bars. 

The big problem for me with Winspace and why I ditched them was you can almost count on them coming out with something better in 6 months and them not really building the brand here in the US more.  Hate them or love them especially with the Nero Shows critique of Quick Pro, but they actually did the right thing nailing down L39ion Los Angeles.  As MKHD Marques Brownlee said it best, selling to enthusiasts is the worse, because they are not loyal to the brand but are mostly spec driven and will jump ship to anything better and while the enthusiast market while lucrative since these demos spend a lot of money, it's one of the smallest demographics out there.  ie your average cyclist has no clue about Winspace or Winspace being ridden in your local teams or hell even in the Vuelta.  Yes crit racing is niche, but in terms of reach Justin Williams in particular for L39ion are recognizable, not only because he has 116K Instagram followers, but because he helped launch the Specialized Allez Sprint, and because he a cyclist of color.  ie I say this with all do respect to you Patty because I love your work, but instead of Winspace giving you, Charles Ouimet, or Petr Minarik Winspace bikes, put that time and money into getting the brand properly launched in America with a guy like Justin.  Again, I love you Patty and you are the reason I am even on this sub or care about a lot about Chinese brands, but in terms of brand building and making Winspace "cool" again, yeah some of it is dumb luck like in getting this to go semi viral, but some of it is just being more strategic and like another poster alluded to, not being "dumb" and hanging a shipping container from a M6 frame.  Who cares?

Winspace is the same company that birthed Tavelo, which has a total of four bikes if you count the Arden and Winspace has 10 current bike frames.  This is the same company that let Joe from Panda Podium walk after he basically helped launch that brand and then essentially helped propel Quick Pro.  So yeah when that poster said Winspace is "stupid" I kind of agree

[Chineseweaklegrider]

I am really interested in the Tavelo Arden.  Currently trying to pre-order it with Underdogs Cycling in Toronto and have it shipped to the US.  The owner of UDC (Edward) the "cracked blue" paint job can be ordered but it's 3 week wait time, which is fine.  He quoted me $2050 shipped with the Riser bar upgrade ($50) for the non SL version.  That original Arrow is $1650 and Rise bar $230 from Panda Podium would be $1930 before shipping, granted the rise bar is sold out on PP and can't be pre-ordered 

I really want to use 35mm GP5000 S TR on these on a 23mm internal wheel, any chance this can be run 2X on Shimano Di2 FD?

 As per the Winspace being a crappy brand I will say, they are just their own worse enemy IMO.  I bought the T1500 Disc during the COVID boom and it was a very good bike with some glaring negatives even for the price.  I then built a T1550 and a SLC3.  After the SLC3 I refused to buy from Winspace anymore, not because the quality or the performance, but because every 6 months a new model would come out and essentially supersede the model you just bought.  At least with Specialzed or Cannondale you don't have the FOMO once you buy since they traditionally run on three year cycles.  You can complain about the raised prices and I think $2800+ for their frames no matter how good they think they are is just wrong because that's getting dangerously close to Western brands that actually have men's world tour teams, LBS support, and actual wind tunnel data ie a Specialized Tarmac SL8 frame is $3500 or now $3K on sale and has been the benchmark bike for years now.  Why would I get an SLC5 over the SL8?  Just like the T1550 shortly being superseded by the T1550 2nd gen we now have the T1600 Ultra now at $2550 from the T1600 $2400.  I also have the qualm that Winspace borders of cheesy IMO, ie the T1600 Team Red Bull knockoff in the "Vuelta Red" just screams cringe.  The other issue is that yeah Winspace got many people hooked on their Hyper Wheels, but have not come close to keeping up with people like Elite Wheels, CraftWorks, Farsports, and many other when it comes to specs and even price.  My last issue with Winspace is that I live in the burbs of NYC and ride 9W often and for people not aware of 9W it's just a stretch of highway that a lot of people from NY/NJ use to cycle, however it's kind of a litmus test to see what people are riding and what's hot.  Occasionally I will see Winspace bikes but a lot of them are he T1550 2nd gen probably because besides the M6 that was one of the last "affordable" frames they built.  Either way I see so many Quick Pros now, which brings up the point that even though Quick Pro has one of the worse names it kind of has become the "it" brand for Chinese bikes now.  If you ask the Nero boys, they feel the brand is overplayed in Australia.

Now this brings me to Tavelo.  Patty in his video said it best, the owner of Tavelo isn't putting out a ton of different bikes.  The Arrow still is out there after a couple year at the same $1650.  They just got into gravel and the Arden is on the verge of being released.  That would mean they have four models while Winspace has 10 active framesets.       

Also funny story the guy from UDC was pretty competitive with Joe from Panda Podium.  Not going to get into it but let's just say he probably isn't a massive fan of the guy.  Secondly, he was defiantly pushing me towards the Incolor SR which has 38mm tire clearance.  It's about $500 more and a more race geo, but as he put it, in his eyes Incolor is the Pinarello of China bikes quality wise and Tavelo might be Cannondale or Specialized quality.  I am interested in the Incolor SR and Tavelo Arden mainly because I think big name Western brands have now hit a wall with road bikes, in that I think we are still at bare min two years away from being two years away from Western brands coming out with race bikes that officially can support a 35mm if not 40mm tire.  I know a lot of old heads scoff at the idea of needing anything more than a 28mm tire let alone a 30mm-32mm tire, but I have said for ages give me more rubber!  Just more comfort and faster overall and simply more versatile.  Sure you can reverse engineer a progressive gravel bike like the Cervelo Aspero5 and put on some slicks, but that's a $8800 bike and that frame while awesome isn't what we call light at 1000g+.  ie the Cervelo Aspero5 while an great do it all bike, is more akin to a last gen Aero bike, while this new Tavelo Arden could be like an all-road Gen 4 SuperSix EVO in the sub 900g range.

Haha quite reasonable about the INCOLOR as Chinese Pinarello (the price only), but TAVELO currently is not Chinese Specialized or Cannodale for sure, I give the credit to Paruds, XDS, QUICK PRO as Chinese SW, TREK, Cannodale.