Author Topic: My N019 Build, NASA themed!  (Read 61234 times)

Izzy

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2015, 07:40:16 PM »
Sweet! Congrats man, I'm envious.

That's awesome you found such a solid solution to the fork clearance issue. Something like that probably would've scared me from doing the build, but it was no big deal, really. Looking forward to hearing if it's functioning well, and other ride impressions, and also total bike weight.

Thanks for sharing.

rvc

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2015, 08:56:14 PM »
Sweet! Congrats man, I'm envious.

That's awesome you found such a solid solution to the fork clearance issue. Something like that probably would've scared me from doing the build, but it was no big deal, really. Looking forward to hearing if it's functioning well, and other ride impressions, and also total bike weight.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers Izzy, thanks!  ;D

Total bike, ride ready is 29.3lbs. Its a tad heavier than I originally estimated at ~27-28, but we all know that weight forecasts are notoriously underestimated.

I wouldn't say that it was "no big deal" to figure out a solution for the fork clearance issue. I worried about it for several days, and only with the help of CMH and Chris @ MTBtools did it get solved. I'm hoping that Chris will make a commercially available adapter for this to solve others' problems, because the end result worked out great.

A couple notes on the build an assembly:

Internally routed cabling.
I knew this would be a little tough for me as I've never threaded a shift cable internally before. Well, it was. The sewing thread + vacuum cleaner trick just didnt work for me... the outlet holes were too small on the 019 frame to get enough suction. I ended up forcing the cabe into the down tube, then catching it with the bottom bracket off and precariously sliding it out of the correct outlet. The rear brake hose cable (on the left side of the frame) came with an inner liner, so pushing it through to the other side was easy. Why couldn't the shift cable have that too?

Seat tube paint cracking.
Upon tightening the included seatpost clamp, I noticed a hairline crack at the collar. I think it is just in the paint, but still... it's a bummer. It's on monitor status now.

Headset
The MTBtools elevated race worked perfectly. It lifted the exact amount needed to clear the pressure cap of the fork: 11mm. The 45deg bevel that Chris machined centered perfectly on the lower headset sealed bearing (a chinese copy of the FSA 42/52 internal). The upper side of the headset was a disaster. No combination of spacers would get it to turn freely, and I ended up questioning my sanity on the assembly of the upper section. As it turns out--- the chinese FSA headset that I got for $25 was junk, at least for the upper section. The spliced centering collar sat about 2mm too low, causing the top dust cover to compress against the frame: making it turn like shit, and very quickly flake off the paint  >:( I ended up finding another spliced collar from my parts bin that sat the dust cover high enough. In hindsight, I'd probably just order a new FSA 42/52 internal headset for $60 or whatever and have it done right from the beginning. Future builders: don't bother with the "included" chiner headset

Tires
I've never seated tubeless fat tires before, so when I decided it was time to mount the tires (5:12pm on the day before Thanksgiving), I realized that to do this correctly you need an inner tube! And with holiday, all of the bike shops were closed.  :-[ Here's where REI came in for the win, for the second time actually. They had a fat inner tube, and were open late. Sweet. I was going to really lament not having the new bike rideable on a 4 day weekend with 60deg F outside!

Handlebars
Once she was all put together and I was done just staring at the bike (mesmerized), I did some late night street riding to sort out the issues. Well, the stem+handlebar combo was the first issue I had to handle. After riding the bike 10 feet it was clear that the long stem (100mm) and narrowish handlebar (660mm) were just not gonna work with 4" fat tires. I had a spare chiner carbon handlebar (that hasn't broken off yet) that was marginally wider (680mm) and I salvaged the 70mm stem from my 29er. It's better but still not perfect. I will be ordering a 730mm Ti bar shortly...

And?! How does it ride!?
I've ridden one other fatbike before, and only briefly. A Specialized Fatboy SE. Entry level rigid, and super slow, but enough of a hoot to greenlight this project.

In short, this ride is STUNNING!!!! I just can't believe it! It climbs, descends, accelerates and brakes really well. And it corners like SEX!

I have already gone on two rides on my usual loop. The first ride found myself laughing the whole way; I was goofing around on the thing, experimenting with different tire pressures, cornering positions and lines, and still managed to almost tie my PR set by my hardtail 29er. The second ride today was a little more sorted and focused, and I totally crushed my PR. 1h15m on the N019, versus 1h23m on my 29er. I just couldn't believe it!

Upon some reflection and a beer since the ride today, I've concluded that the time saved comes from the sheer cornering speed and resulting leg energy on reserve. There is so much traction, even when the bike is pitched over that it just becomes less necessary to touch the brakes. It's almost scary. The slightly raked front fork (resulting from 2" of lift, between the race adapter and the suss fork) means that sweeping twisty sections are confidence inspiring, and it doesn't get unsettled when pitched over and going over changing terrain. The tire absorbs a lot of the tiny bumps too, so you have the encouraging impression that the trail is smooth asphalt. So, higher cornering speed, higher exit speed, less gas burned on accelerating out of the corner.

The Fatboy SE that I rode had heaaaaavy wheels, and boy did you feel it. My legs were burning quickly out of tight cornering sections. The N019, however didn't really feel any slower than my 29er on acceleration--a miracle given the sheer size. The 135/197mm axles, 80mm carbon rims, and tubeless Husker Du's are a truly awesome combination. It tracks alarminlgy well overall and really doesnt seem to care how you pitch the bike.

A couple negative points:
-   At 0-2mph, the handling is... well, super sluggish and it takes some getting used to. I'm holding out until I get the 730mm bar really. But there was a moment in a technical rocky section where I slowed down to a crawl, bonked and couldnt twist the front wheel out of it (like I usually would). I ended up dropping the bike and scratching the seatstay on a rock. Oh well.

-  No Lizard Skin that I've found fits the huge chainstays. I installed an adhesive chain smack guard, but it still clacks the frame pretty hard on rocky descents.

-  The rear brake mounting bolts seem to be too far to the axle; my Hope brake only bite into 70-80% the 160mm rotor. I may go 185mm in the back and shim the caliper out later on.

Overall, I'm very pleased!! Yes, it ended up being more expensive and heavier than I planned ($2150, 29.3lbs), but good God is it fast and fun (I'll admit, it's gorgeous to me  too!)

-RVC

MTNRCKT

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2015, 09:43:01 PM »
Wow, awesome write-up and build, man. Reading that actually got me considering a fat bike build for the first time since I got over my initial "oh I want this cool new thing" phase. I think it helps a lot that you've got some pretty sweet wheels on that thing.

Do you happen to have much experience with full suspension bikes? If so, in your opinion, do think that tire size or suspension is the more effective at smoothing out the trail?

cmh

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2015, 07:47:14 PM »
Total bike, ride ready is 29.3lbs. Its a tad heavier than I originally estimated at ~27-28, but we all know that weight forecasts are notoriously underestimated.

Anything sub 30 for a fat bike is pretty respectable - add in the fact that you've got a suspension fork and you're doing great.

Quote
I wouldn't say that it was "no big deal" to figure out a solution for the fork clearance issue. I worried about it for several days, and only with the help of CMH and Chris @ MTBtools did it get solved. I'm hoping that Chris will make a commercially available adapter for this to solve others' problems, because the end result worked out great.

Yeah, really glad how well that worked out. It'd be cool to get the spacer anodized, but a little black paint or even a Sharpie could fix that right up. :D

Quote
Seat tube paint cracking.
Upon tightening the included seatpost clamp, I noticed a hairline crack at the collar. I think it is just in the paint, but still... it's a bummer. It's on monitor status now.

Boo -- but should just be aesthetic.

Quote
Handlebars
...I will be ordering a 730mm Ti bar shortly...

Wait, not a carbon one?  ;D

Quote
In short, this ride is STUNNING!!!! I just can't believe it! It climbs, descends, accelerates and brakes really well. And it corners like SEX!

So, I'm not sure, do you like it?  ;D

Quote
-  No Lizard Skin that I've found fits the huge chainstays. I installed an adhesive chain smack guard, but it still clacks the frame pretty hard on rocky descents.

Ditch that rear derailleur for one with a clutch, like the Shadow Plus, and make sure the clutch is on. Matter of fact, a non-clutch rear derailleur and no chain guide is potentially asking for a regularly thrown chain. Narrow-wide rings help, but you can still get chain bounce without the clutch and possibly throw the chain. Also depends heavily on your trails.

Also, please - please - cut that damn excess cable. :D Hopefully it was just impatience and you've already done it, but if you don't have a cable crimp on hand, just use some hot glue, works like a champ.

Quote
Overall, I'm very pleased!! Yes, it ended up being more expensive and heavier than I planned ($2150, 29.3lbs), but good God is it fast and fun (I'll admit, it's gorgeous to me  too!)

Sounds like it was totally worth it. Congrats! Great build, looks awesome, and sounds like you've got a winner! Glad you enjoy yours more than mine, guess it's time to get better tires and get on mine again.

rvc

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2015, 08:59:49 PM »
Do you happen to have much experience with full suspension bikes? If so, in your opinion, do think that tire size or suspension is the more effective at smoothing out the trail?

Yes, though nothing super recent. I sold my Titus Quasi Moto build (6" travel f/r) to fund this project, and I've had a SC Superlight, RM Element, and Giant NRS before that. No experience on a "modern" 29er FS (ask cmh about his new Specialized!), so take that into consideration.

Regarding smoothing the trail... it really depends on the trail, the FS bike/shock and the tire pressure you run in the fatbike. I ran it as low as 5psi on the first day and it simply deletes bumps under about 2" in size. At that pressure though, the tires make all kinds of noise and the bike feels "bouncy".  The FS bikes I've had were pretty decent at smoothing over medium hits--small chatter and big smacks still telegraphed.

What I like about the fatbike experience is how the tires eat a lot of the minor unsettling trail bumps in cornering. When you combine that with the high lateral stiffness (80mm rims + wide through axles)--the sensation of confidence and stability is awesome. And you don't pay for that in the climbs--it still feels like a hardtail going up. There's also something nice about the tire profile and how it leans over--reminds me of my street motorcycling days.

If you're curious--try and do a demo day with your LBS. That's how I demo'ed the Fatboy. Then imagine everything being 8lbs lighter (thank you, China!).


Yeah, really glad how well that worked out. It'd be cool to get the spacer anodized, but a little black paint or even a Sharpie could fix that right up. :D

Oh yes, definitely. :)

Ditch that rear derailleur for one with a clutch, like the Shadow Plus, and make sure the clutch is on. Matter of fact, a non-clutch rear derailleur and no chain guide is potentially asking for a regularly thrown chain. Narrow-wide rings help, but you can still get chain bounce without the clutch and possibly throw the chain. Also depends heavily on your trails.

Also, please - please - cut that damn excess cable. :D Hopefully it was just impatience and you've already done it, but if you don't have a cable crimp on hand, just use some hot glue, works like a champ.


Good call on the RD--I was unaware that clutched mechs were available. I picked up a 42T e*thirteen cog and an XTR 11-36 cassette that havent been installed yet. Looks like another $60 for an XT m786 long cage  ::)

And... the cable is already cut+capped, don't worry my friend. I rushing the photoshoot for daylight :)

Something else I figured I'd mention-- I was initially worried about the Q of the crankset & 197mm axle as I have mild knee irritation issues. The wide pedal spacing felt completely fine to me (I'm 6'0) and fortunately have felt zero issues in my knees in the 3 rides on the bike so far. Very very pleased!  8)

cmh

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2015, 03:15:16 PM »
Yes, though nothing super recent. I sold my Titus Quasi Moto build (6" travel f/r) to fund this project, and I've had a SC Superlight, RM Element, and Giant NRS before that. No experience on a "modern" 29er FS (ask cmh about his new Specialized!), so take that into consideration.

Ahhh, the Specialized... I recently got an Epic, and it's ... well, Epic. The harder you push it the better it gets. Amusingly, my description of the Epic would pretty much match rvc's description of his fat bike. :)

Good call on the RD--I was unaware that clutched mechs were available. I picked up a 42T e*thirteen cog and an XTR 11-36 cassette that havent been installed yet. Looks like another $60 for an XT m786 long cage  ::)

Will make a big difference on the chain slap as well. I found Gorilla clear tape is pretty awesome for frame protection. Not quite as thick or durable as helicopter tape (which I also have) but far cheaper and easier to find.

And... the cable is already cut+capped, don't worry my friend. I rushing the photoshoot for daylight :)

Something told me that was the case but I just couldn't let it slide. :D

Something else I figured I'd mention-- I was initially worried about the Q of the crankset & 197mm axle as I have mild knee irritation issues. The wide pedal spacing felt completely fine to me (I'm 6'0) and fortunately have felt zero issues in my knees in the 3 rides on the bike so far. Very very pleased!  8)

I wondered about the same with mine, and never even thought about it. After a couple rides I was like "well, I guess it wasn't an issue."

Nash04

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2015, 09:40:58 PM »
Looks like Chris might be able to help me out!

Here's a selection of pics that I took to help dimension the new spacer:

The lower 52mm bearing cup of the frame:


With the bearing installed:


With the original crown race/baseplate sitting on the bearing:


You can see here that the headset/frame is designed to have a semi flush (+1mm) fitment with the fork.

A point I want to add here: with the crown race/baseplate installed on a 1.5 steerer (at the 1.59" section), this particular race opens up to an OD of 52.2mm, which is larger than the 52mm opening in the bottom of the frame. This means, with the fork test fit, it rubs! Its a little bit of a bummer--I thought at first that I just hadn't torqued down the headset, but on closer inspection/measurement it was clear the race was rubbing the frame.

Here's the 1.5"  carbon headset spacer installed as a test:


This test confirmed for me that adding 8mm (underneath the baseplate) as a shim is just barely enough to clear the fork knobs. Since I'm having a custom part made, I'm actually going to go +11mm instead of +8mm to give everything a touch more room.

On my steerer, the 1.59" OD pressfit section is just tall enough to grab after an 8mm shim:


Another 20 min in Solidworks, and here is the drawing for the baseplate adapter I hope to have made with MTB Tools 8):


Have one question:  Since the steering tube is tapered and your spacer plus the crown equals around 12+mm, how is your bearing making good contact with the tube since the ID goes down to around 40mm at the point where it makes contact?  I've tried with the Niner's 5mm crown and noticed after tightening the headset, the shock would wobble at the bottom due to not making perfect contact between the tube and bearing?

d34n

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2015, 08:26:59 PM »






Is there no bottom cover for your bike? how does your cable routing look now? Are you worried about water or damages to the cables??

D34N

rvc

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2016, 12:15:29 AM »

Have one question:  Since the steering tube is tapered and your spacer plus the crown equals around 12+mm, how is your bearing making good contact with the tube since the ID goes down to around 40mm at the point where it makes contact?  I've tried with the Niner's 5mm crown and noticed after tightening the headset, the shock would wobble at the bottom due to not making perfect contact between the tube and bearing?

Howdy Nash,

The steerer on my particular fork (not sure if this is true for others) has a non-tapered section that measures about 10mm up from the crown. This provides more than enough bite for the spacer to grab and center the steerer into the bearing. After now 15+ rides on the thing, there is no wobble or funny business from the spacer mod--I'm very pleased!

rvc

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2016, 12:19:06 AM »






Is there no bottom cover for your bike? how does your cable routing look now? Are you worried about water or damages to the cables??

D34N

There is no cover that I'm aware of. I'm not terribly worried about damage to the cables--I've had several bikes run exposed cable through plastic guides underneath the BB shell. No problems really with it in the past.

As for water... I kind of like that there is a "drain" near the low point of the bike-- the frame is not watertight in other areas of the bike... so reasonable drainage/venting would be good I assume.

cmh

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2016, 08:23:54 AM »
There is no cover that I'm aware of. I'm not terribly worried about damage to the cables--I've had several bikes run exposed cable through plastic guides underneath the BB shell. No problems really with it in the past.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be worried about that setup, all my road bikes and many non-suspension MTBs I've had were set up like that. What would be nice, however, is having an easy option for a full-run housing, I'm a big fan of that. I run only full-run housing on my bikes, and just last week my wife's rear derailleur stopped shifting well when her rear housing froze up. I'd like to convert her bike to full-run housing, but thanks to internal cable routing, I'd have to start by drilling stuff out.

On the upside, having her unable to shift out of first gear made it easier to keep up with her, so I might just spray down her derailleur before winter rides. ^_^

grebnet

ORDERED AND WAITING
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2016, 03:28:55 PM »
i just found this forum, have been browsing on MBTR.
I ordered this week from peter at Carbonspeed:

19 " CS-N019 frame
Carbon Fork
Headset,Stem,Handlebars,Seatpost
100 mm Wheels with SRAM Hub

now have to get components:
planning on XX1 1x11 Deraileur
need to figure out crank ( brand and spindle length)and Bottom Bracket , Chain Ring 28,30,32 ?brand , flipped ?

I am looking for any advice on any and all parts.
Brakes Shimano or Sram ?
Tubeless tires

I have never built a bike but hope to  find local help ( Syracuse anyone ??? )

Thanks in advance

cmh

Re: ORDERED AND WAITING
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2016, 05:02:27 PM »
You might want to start your own thread for your build so it doesn't get confused with RVC's.

...
need to figure out crank ( brand and spindle length)and Bottom Bracket , Chain Ring 28,30,32 ?brand , flipped ?

I am looking for any advice on any and all parts.
Brakes Shimano or Sram ?
Tubeless tires

I have never built a bike but hope to  find local help ( Syracuse anyone ??? )

Re: crank, with a 190mm rear end, you typically want a 120mm BB, but I think that I've heard of folks running 100mm BBs without too much trouble with the chainline. On my fatty, it's got the 190mm rear/120mm BB combo - but since 100mm shells are common, it also has a pair of 10mm spacers which fit on either side of the spindle.

They're not cheap, but RaceFace's new Cinch cranks are pretty sweet. Have a set on my wife's bike, and want a set for mine. What's cool about them is the spindle is separate from both crank arms, so you can get a wide spindle for the fat bike, but if you wanted to transfer the cranks to a "skinny" bike, you just get a new spindle. The cranks I have on my fat bike have the spindle attached to the one crank arm, so those cranks will only work on a fat bike. RaceFace has a really flexible system available there.

Brakes - for a while, Shimano has owned the disk brake market, but SRAM's latest offerings are getting really good reviews. I've got zero complaints about the Shimano brakes I've worked with, SLX, XT, XTR - they're all choice, but I got a set of Guide RS brakes on one bike and they're just as good. One finger power with easy modulation. Seems like brakes have become really solid.

Tubeless tires - yes, definitely. Only tires I've got experience with are the Vee Snowshoe 4.5, which measure just over 4.0" on an 80mm rim, and seemed pretty good in everything except... amusingly enough -- snow. No experience with anything else recently, but I hear the Husker Du tires are really sweet. Whatever you run, run it tubeless. I got a sweet set of 80mm carbon rims from Peter at XMCarbonSpeed that built up into a really nice set of wheels. Much easier to get rims designed for tubeless than trying any of the really hackish DIY tubeless conversions you'll see on the non-tubeless specific rims.

Unfortunately not in the Syracuse area, but there's a bunch of us who are more than willing to help answer questions!

final forum

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2016, 07:39:58 PM »
Get the 170mm qr factor cranks. Mine fit perfect on the ns-019.
Check out r2-bikes or bike 24.

 Got my full groupset off r2. Great deal on tires as well. I would buy Dillinger 4-5 studless or studded but bike 24 offers great deals on studs from Schwabe in do it your self which make for alot cheaper.

I also noticed schwalbes jumbo jims just went down in price from bike 24 to unspeakable low price.

My 2 cents

wind_dre

Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2016, 06:09:43 AM »
@rvc this crankset is 170mm spindle ??
As @final forum mentioned, he is on 170mm Sram spindle. I would like to use Race Face Aeffect spindle that acieve a 74,5mm Chain line with an acceptable Qfactor (205mm)