Tubeless Tires Discussion

[adbl]

Welcome adbl, glad you like your CS-057, I built mine about 3 years ago and it's still going strong.  As for tubeless tires, make sure you shake and spin the wheels around flipping them over and doing so on both side.  It's good to also leave them lying horizontal for a few ours, flipping them occasionally.  If they hold air overnight they should be ready to go.

Please post a picture in the 29er picture thread when you get a chance.


Yeah, I've been doing the rotation sequence every few hours. The front seems to be sealed up pretty well but the rear is almost flat after pumping it up last night around 7:00pm. I purchased Easton EC90 wheels and Maxxis Ikon tubeless ready specifically for tubeless use. They are both supposed to be UST specific. This is my first venture into the tubeless realm so i'm learning as i go along. 

[Carbon_Dude]

How much sealant did you put in?  Maybe add 2 oz. more to help the sealant flow around the bead.  What type of sealant are you using?  Sometimes, if the sealant gets under the rim tape, you will not be able to get the tire to hold air, if that's the case you will need to break the wheel down, remove the old tape, clean the rim with some alcohol, and install new tape.

[adbl]

How much sealant did you put in?  Maybe add 2 oz. more to help the sealant flow around the bead.  What type of sealant are you using?  Sometimes, if the sealant gets under the rim tape, you will not be able to get the tire to hold air, if that's the case you will need to break the wheel down, remove the old tape, clean the rim with some alcohol, and install new tape.

Well the situation is this, these are UST rims which do not use tape. There are no holes in the rims except for the valve stem. Getting the tires to seat was no problem. I was able to accomplish that with just a hand pump! When i realized the tires were leaking air i put them in a tub of water to expecting to find the beads leaking. To my surprise they were bone dry. All of the air was seeping through the tire itself  The tire is actually porous especially the sidewalls. Reading some blogs online it sees to be quite common. I used 3 ounces originally and am going to put in another ounce today before a ride. We'll see what happens.........

I have not been on the bike since i used the sealant so hopefully some riding will help. I'm using Stan's sealant.

[Carbon_Dude]

Yes, thin sidewalls on many tires will leak air.  Manufacturers do this to save weight but in my opinion if the sidewall is too thin to hold air, it's not a tire I want to put on my bike.  I found this out when I installed a set of Schwalbe Racing Ralphs, very light tire, very thin sidewall.  I needed to shake the sealant around enough to cover all the pin holes where the air was leaking out.  It's helpful if you add extra sealant, and lay the tire horizontal, shake and flip, rinse and repeat  . 

What wheels and tires do you have?

I've since started buying tires with thicker sidewalls, yes they are a bit heavier but at least they hold air much better than "race" tires.

My first set of tubeless wheels (about 10 years ago) were Mavic UST compatible with Hutchinson Python UST tires.  They were a bear to mount and dismount but true UST did not require sealant, the UST system is more like the tubeless system on a car or motorcycle.  The bead design and air pressure locks and seals the tire to the rim.

Today's wheels are mostly "Tubeless Compatible" which means they are not UST and do require sealant (and patience).

As a matter of fact, I just went tubeless on my new Trek Stache 29+ bike.  The tires and tubes are huge by comparison (mid-fat) so I added some extra sealant to compensate for the additional air volume.  The tubes weigh almost a pound each so going tubeless saves nearly 2 lbs.  My only problem is the front aired up fine after installing the tubeless valve stem and sealant.  However, the back tire leaked sealant everywhere (the 50mm wide Mulefut rims are single wall and have holes between the spokes.  Sealant was coming out of all the holes which meant the sealant was under the tape and under the rim strip.  When I broke the tire down I saw the rim tape was not installed correctly.

Now, I could go buy a $25 roll of 45mm wide rim tape, re-tape the rim, and get everything sealed correctly.  However, the wheels are sold as "Tubeless Ready" and the bike shop even offered to convert the wheels to tubeless if I brought the bike back to them after riding it for a week.  They claimed the tires needed to seat into the rim better, and makes it setup tubeless much easier, but it takes a few rides.  Not the first time I've heard this, but mainly for new tires that come folded, it can be difficult to install a newly unfolded tire and get it to seat well against the rim at the crease lines.

Anyway, the shop said they did not have any wide (45mm) rim tape and that I should have checked the rim tape myself and added more tape if needed, prior to adding sealant.  Not something I wanted to hear.  Again, you are a Local Bike Shop... I am your customer... I paid $XXXX dollars to purchase a bike from YOU and was told they wheels that come on the bike are ready to go tubeless.  However, if the rim tape is not properly installed, it is not "Ready".

Sorry for the rant but I think I will end up ordering a $25 roll of rim tape and taking care of the problem myself.

Which then brings me back to ChinerTown.  The reason this website exists is because more and more avid bikers are finding they cannot rely on bike shops to provide what they need at a reasonable price and a in a short time.  So our forum members learn from others what they need, where to get it, and how to install it .

[adbl]

No worries with ranting...lol! That's what forums are all about 

I am appreciative of any advice i can receive or give. There is no such thing as too much knowledge! My wheels are Easton EC90. They are a UST specific made wheel. No holes for spokes. Seals the tire with just a hand pump. The tires are Maxxis Ikons and are also supposed to be "tubeless ready". They do offer an extra protection version which i did not get because i don't live in an area with thorns and such. Hind sight being 20/20, maybe i should have sprung for the extra protection. I'm not that much of a weight weenie so the extra weight would no bother me. Live and learn i guess 

Good news though. The front tire seems to be holding pretty well. I added an ounce yesterday right before a ride and it seemed to hold pressure all through the ride. This morning it's a little soft but not flat. I'm riding tomorrow so we'll see how that goes. You're right about the patience part. I'm trying not to get too frustrated with the process but i figure if it pays off in the end i'll be happy not running tubes. I already prefer it!

[Carbon_Dude]

I decided to split this discussion into a new topic since it has gone beyond the original Welcome topic.

I think if the rim is UST but the tire is only Tubeless Ready, it's not going to make things much easier than if you had a rim  and tire that are both Tubeless Ready.  Mainly the only difference is a Tubeless Ready rim just needs tape to seal the spoke holes.  Usually not a big deal, unless you don't have any rim tape but once the rim tape is sealed well against the rim, that seal should last a long time.

If both your rim and tire are UST, setup should be a snap with just a hand pump and no sealant required although nice to have to seal punctures.

[xcbarny]

Thought I'd chime in with my Tubeless experiece.

My first set up was probably 8 years ago using some Maxxis Crossmarks and some Stans 355 rims. I'm not sure if Tubeless Ready (TR) tires were available then, but these tires weren't. UST was out then, but these tires tended to be at least 200g heavier than standard tires.
Stans seemed initially to be designed to work with standard tires, and so saved a heap of weight over UST. I had the usual issues getting the Crossmarks to seal - weeping sidewall which took a few days of flipping to seal.
I didn't think I lived in a particularly rocky area, but within a few rides I'd managed to put a big slash in my rear tire (and also found a huge booger of dried sealant in my tire). This was the first of many slashes that I repaired in these tires (and the first of many boogers.)
After they wore out, I tried some Schwalbe Racing Ralph snakeskins - knowing that I needed a tougher sidewall. I used this type of tire for many years. When they made them Tubleless ready, they sealed up very well - barely needed any sealant, and didn't leak from the sidewall (though after a bit of use i'd start to see small wet patches in the tread, where the sealant had done its job)

In a weight weenie moment, I tried a non Snakeskin TR Rocket ron on the front (since I'd never damaged a front tire). This saved about 100g, however the tire took a lot more sealant to seal (back to sidewall weeping), so the weight saving was much less than 100g, and it tore within 4 rides ( in the middle of a race!).

So for me, its just not worth using non Snakeskin tires, and the setup is much more problematic. I haven't tried them, but I presume Maxxis Exo tires and Continentals Protection tires are similar in sealing and toughness to the Snakeskins. I'm not sure about other brands, though I've often wondered why manufactureres bother making TR tires that don't have a toughened sidewall.

Currently I'm running some heavy Michelin tires, which so far have been fine, and no sealing or tearing sidewall issues, even though the versions I have weren't advertised as having a tough sidewall. I've also in the past run Geax Sagguaros, which weren't TR (TNT as Geax called it). These were fairly heavy (720g ish) and lasted until the tread wore out.