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Re: single pivot or Horst link
The P1's geometry looks a bit old school to me. Steep head angle and slack seat angle make for a comfortable touring bike, but it'll be less suited for steep climbs and fast descends. And I wouldn't call the FM1001 "really slack". It's bang on with other contemporary short travel trail bikes. However, you could also run a 130mm fork instead of the recommended 140mm and get a 66 degree HA and 500mm reach. The FM1001 will feel shorter though, at least when sitting in the saddle. The steep seat tube angle means a short effective top tube length and therefore a more upright pedaling position. I consider that a good thing, as long as it's not too short and your knees start hitting the handlebars. I'd say the XL should be perfect for anyone up to 190cm (6' 3") and an inseam of 90cm (35.5"). July 29, 2021, 04:40:06 AM |
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Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
Any 1002 owners tried a coil shock? I like being able to see sag and travel use easily on an air shock, but the ~2.5 average leverage on the 1001/1002 seems like it would work well with coils. The average leverage ratio doesn't tell you how well a coil shock would perform. For a coil shock to work well, you typically need a rather progressive leverage curve since coils are perfectly linear (unless it's a progressive spring, dunno how progressive they really are though). The 1001/1002 have rather linear leverage curves, the latter being slightly more progressive. But I would imagine that it's not enough for a coil shock. For example the new Canyon Spectral Mullet has a coil and some testers say that it's not progressive enough. And that's waaay more progressive than either 1001 or 1002. December 03, 2021, 01:47:03 AM |
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Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
Good point. I’m aware of the relation between spring and leverage curves, I was just trying to keep my question relatively short — and coming from a GT Force (avg leverage 2.79 and only moderately progressive), I was thinking of the fact that even the max 700lb coil felt too soft for me on that bike with the limited support the Bomber CR damper gives. Ah, now I get your point. You're absolutely right, lower average lev ratio means you won't have the issue of not finding a spring that's hard enough. Sadly, I think even a progressive coil spring won't help with a progression of less than 10% from SAG point... But maybe someone will start making custom upper links, that would be awesome Not sure about the damping thing, but yeah, if it's already overdamped with more travel, then a lower average lev ratio and less travel will probably make it even worse. December 03, 2021, 03:19:16 AM |
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Re: Carbonda FM909
As requested by PM, here some linkage analysis. If anyone has a vector diagram of this frame, I can provide more accurate results December 11, 2021, 08:15:42 AM |
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Re: Carbonda FM909
What do you mean by a "modern" leverage ratio. I mean it's not as progressive as one might want. Doesn't mean that it's bad of course. My take: The biggest difference to the FM936 is not the overall progressiveness, but the way the progression changes throughout the travel. The FM936 is more progressive in the midstroke and basically linear at the end of the stroke. The FM909 is linear at SAG point, then becomes slightly progressive in the mid stroke and more progressive at the end of the stroke. Now air shocks generally lack progressivity in the mid stroke and are very progressive at the end of the stroke. Also, with volume spacers you can even increase the progressivity at the end of the stroke. But you can't really change the mid stroke. And so with the FM909, those similar characteristics enhance each other, making it more likely to fly through its travel and offering less mid stroke support. With the FM936, the opposing curves add up to a more linear overall lev ratio, giving more mid stroke support. The lack of bottom out resistance can be countered with volume spacers. But please take this with a pinch of salt. I could be wrong December 13, 2021, 01:01:59 AM |
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Re: Carbonda FM909
Hi Julian, take a look at attached vector PDF. Is it enough? I can export it to CAD format (DXF or DWG) if needed. Thanks! I used your vector PDF and got pretty much the same numbers. 45mm stroke is definitely too much. If my model is correct, it has less travel than claimed though: 40.0mm stroke = 96mm of travel 42.5mm stroke = 101mm of travel 45.0mm stroke = 107mm of travel and a broken frame December 13, 2021, 01:08:13 AM |
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Re: Carbonda FM909
This should visualize the different progression characteristics of the FM936 and FM909. The blue line is the overall force needed to go from 0 to full travel. The red line is the force needed to get the next 1mm of travel at any given point. Both shocks are the same except for a slightly bigger volume spacer in the FM936 to match the overall bottom out resistances. As you can see, the FM909 has a more pronounced "dip" in the late mid stroke whereas the FM936 is more evenly progressive. So with the same SAG and bottom out force, the FM936 will offer a better mid stroke platform and sit higher in its travel. Maybe the soft mid stroke of the FM909 has its advantages for an XC bike, but for down country, the FM936 should be better suited - also because of the 10-15mm extra travel. December 13, 2021, 04:51:26 AM |
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Re: FM1001 / FM1156 - 135mm frame
A friend of mine is running the offset bushing to bring up the BB, I think so long as the spacing is perfect and all the tightening force goes to secure the bushing, it should be fine. But putting it on a rotating part has the side effect of changing the leverage ratio. December 15, 2021, 01:26:17 AM |
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Re: FM1001 / FM1156 - 135mm frame
So the effects of a 2mm offset bushing are: - BB higher by 3mm - head angle steeper by 0,3 degrees - leverage ratio slightly less progressive - 1mm more travel December 15, 2021, 03:14:33 AM |
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Re: Carbonda FM 1003 / Flybike FM 1266 180mm "Super Enduro"
Anyone have an idea what bike this frame is roughly based on? I haven't seen any other bike like this. There might be some resemblance to the Nukeproof Giga which also uses a linkage driven single pivot design. January 31, 2022, 01:48:20 AM |
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