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Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: BeR on March 15, 2024, 02:35:04 AM
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What do you prefer and why for aero bike ? (Performance, comfort, puncture resistance,...)
Please, don't talk about tubeless ;D.
I have not seen any latex tube on Aliexpress, only TPU tube (Ridenow seems to be the cheapest and greatest quality).
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I believe both Latex and TPU are great choices over butyl as they do reduce rolling resistance and add comfort (so does tubeless, BTW ;)).
Running Revoloop without a problem on rim brake, the first Ridenow I had lost air and had defects, but it seems the newer iterations are better (the typical Chiner approach: the market will improve the product, eventually...)
Installed a pair of Cyclami TPU just this week, seem to hold air but have not taken them out for rides, yet.
Latex worked fine for me, as well, you will have to consider aging and them losing air - but you know what you sign up for, so still a great product and ride feel
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TPU is the lightest option.
I believe the tests for rolling resistance that I've seen are a tiny bit in favour of Latex inner tubes, both outperforming butyl.
My personal experience is that latex does feel better: it rides more comfortable and it feels more stable in the corners. Likely because there is more material compared to TPU which will help to damp vibrations.
Concerning puncture protection, I have the feeling that latex tubes do very well since they are very flexible and small objects do not immediately cut through it.
That said, I do ride TPU since I don't want to inflate my tires every day.
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a tpu user here, on 700c roadbike.
i have used:
- revoloop ultra
- ridenow gen1 36g (big box)
- ridenow gen2 26g (the slimmer box)
- thinkrider 28g twinpack.
so far all my punctures are from sharp objects debris on road (glass, nail etc).
revoloop is expensive.
however my ridenows have reliability issues (seam glue failed, the rubber seal on innercore failed n loose air, etc). it looked like theres ridenow gen3 with metal valve. haven tried that.
now my rear tire is with thinkrider.
from 118g butyl to 30g tputube, thats insane weightsaving for minimal money
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TPU is the lightest option.
I believe the tests for rolling resistance that I've seen are a tiny bit in favour of Latex inner tubes, both outperforming butyl.
My personal experience is that latex does feel better: it rides more comfortable and it feels more stable in the corners. Likely because there is more material compared to TPU which will help to damp vibrations.
Concerning puncture protection, I have the feeling that latex tubes do very well since they are very flexible and small objects do not immediately cut through it.
That said, I do ride TPU since I don't want to inflate my tires every day.
Do you have a link of cheap latex on Aliexpress ?
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a tpu user here, on 700c roadbike.
i have used:
- revoloop ultra
- ridenow gen1 36g (big box)
- ridenow gen2 26g (the slimmer box)
- thinkrider 28g twinpack.
so far all my punctures are from sharp objects debris on road (glass, nail etc).
revoloop is expensive.
however my ridenows have reliability issues (seam glue failed, the rubber seal on innercore failed n loose air, etc). it looked like theres ridenow gen3 with metal valve. haven tried that.
now my rear tire is with thinkrider.
from 118g butyl to 30g tputube, thats insane weightsaving for minimal money
I'm curious if everyone prefers Thinkrider over Ridenow.
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I'm using Newboler 28g TPU
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005428747176.html
So far all of them worked flawless. Only puncture I got was from a big piece of debris which killed the whole tyre. No tube would have survived this.
I don't know if they are identical to RideNow, I guess so.
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Fwiw, it may be an urban legend by now, but older guys / shops told me that tyres stretch, and so you shouldn't keep tyres inflated when not in use. Which was kind of an auto feature from latex, in a way.
If anyone knows, i'd be curious whether there's merit to that. Given how expensive good tyres are, i do deflate my tyres when not in use.
If i'm utterly wasting my time though, i'd like to know.
I switched to TPU from latex recently. i dont have an opinion on relative feel, it just weighs (quite a bit) less, is cheaper & less finicky.
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I ran latex for a while (don't remember the brand but they were pink in a gray and red box). They were FAST with GP5Ks but could NOT hold air. They would deflate in about a day. I have installed extenders on all types of tubes so I don't think that was the issue but that was annoying. I have Continental butyl race tubes which are supposedly as fast but not really.
I heard something about putting baby powder between the tube and tire to reduce friction. But I may try tubeless on my next build to eliminate that extra friction entirely.
EDIT- there is a difference: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/top-3-fastest-tubeless-vs-tubes
For a slow poke like me 3W matters. And these are 17c tires (???). I'd wager the losses scale with tire size. I wouldn't want to do long rides on these though.
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Do you have a link of cheap latex on Aliexpress ?
I've always bought them in the store or online shops (Europe) from Michelin/Vittoria.
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Personally I found TPU tubes to be VERY fragile during installation and didn’t work well when installing difficult to mount tires (cough gp5000 cough). I think I accidentally busted a couple when using tire levers, but never had an issue with latex. Having said that I carry TPU tubes in my saddle bags just in case because of their size and weight, but I would prefer latex or tubeless for the “daily”
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Fwiw, it may be an urban legend by now, but older guys / shops told me that tyres stretch, and so you shouldn't keep tyres inflated when not in use. Which was kind of an auto feature from latex, in a way.
If anyone knows, i'd be curious whether there's merit to that. Given how expensive good tyres are, i do deflate my tyres when not in use.
If i'm utterly wasting my time though, i'd like to know.
I switched to TPU from latex recently. i dont have an opinion on relative feel, it just weighs (quite a bit) less, is cheaper & less finicky.
I also deflate my tires but I don't know if it is useful.
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I've been running TPU for the past 18 months. Not a single puncture out on the road yet (gonna jinx myself now). Routine maintenance and inspection of your tires are the biggest factors to prevent punctures, as is running the optimal tire width/pressure for both your weight and local road conditions, respectively. I also use baby powder.
While the weight savings and puncture resistance of TPU over latex is very tangible, latex beats out TPU for road comfort no question. I've converted all my bikes to TPU except for my Winspace T1500 paired with D67 wheels. That bike being super aero isn't exactly light anyway, so I'd rather prioritize marginal rolling resistance and comfort over the 100g weight savings. We are talking like 1% of overall system weight.
Personally I actually find latex more delicate than TPU. Latex handles rough pavement (and cornering/grip) better overall but TPU is better at preventing punctures from sharp objects. TPU is more affordable than latex nowadays. Almost two for the price of one. RideNow 36g versus Vittoria Competition.
I make a good habit of inspecting my bike and tire pressure before every ride. It takes 45 seconds...
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Offbondage tpu tubes are my go-to now, mainly due to the alloy valve. The plastic valve stems can crack if you're not careful. Though if you want the cheapest tpu tubes, ThinkRider are decent with a semi alloy/plastic stem valve. Plus I prefer 25c tires and it's hard to beat the lower cost/weight ratio of clincher tires+tpu tubes and ease of tire changes due to flats. You can also pack several tpu tubes and glueless patch kits in the saddle bag with minimal weight. With road tubeless you have to make sure you have tape that can handle higher pressures (if you have spoke holes), use heavier tires and carry more items (bacon strips, co2 cartridge, plus a tube for emergencies). Unless you're a 100kg ogre, for nimble riders it's tpu all the way.
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TPU user here, almost a year that I've moved completely to chinese TPU (mainly RideNow and Thinkrider, but also tried Offbondage)
the rolling is for sure better than butyl, but I don't have experience with Latex so cannot compare them.
about puncture resistance, my impression is similar to Pat's above, I think the tire and the road conditions are the main factors. When changing from butyl to TPU I honestly didn't feel any change in punctures. In this 1yr, around 7.000km ridden, only 2 punctures in my TPU tubes
they're a bit more difficult to setup, especially with tight tires, but after you get the hang it's pretty ok
and of course, using as spare tubes is a no brainer, they take little to no space in your pocket/bag
what I think the main issues are:
- Reliability, the batches vary a lot and some tubes are better finished than others. I've had all brands fail on the valve stem to tube connection, small leaks that first just deflate over days but then start leaking more and more.
- Patching is more difficult and uncertain. I've used self-adhesive patches, and some worked well but others started leaking after some time. Seems the adhesive starts to fail, maybe temperature variation and stuff like that. I've seen some tips on using vinyl glue to patch, I bought it but still have to try
- Setup is tricky, since the tube is very thin it may be pressed between the tire and rim, and ends up blowing up. I've had this happen to me 2 times now, fortunately, I was standing still with my bike but was mid ride so got me a bit scarred. Upon investigation, it was my fault, it's important to check every bit after getting the tire seated, pushing it from side to side, so it doesn't 'bite' on the tube. As I mentioned, when you get the hang it's ok.
I've thought of going back to butyl after some of these valve stem fails, but honestly these TPU tubes on the '3 items for...' of Aliexpress are around 1/3 the price I'll pay for one butyl tube here in Brazil. So as long as the tpu tube don't fail me mid-ride (which is rare to happen) I'll continue using them
About brands, RideNow seems to be the best quality, especially after the last generations and improvements. Offbondage is also a very good option, their stem-tube connection is very nicely done and reinforced. Thinkrider has the best cost, and the alloy/plastic stem was a nice improvement, but it's still the one that failed the most with me so I'm a bit skeptic.
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Latex tubes roll the best and give the most compliant road feel in my experience. Vittoria latex tubes are also basically as cheap as Chinese TPU tubes. In Germany at least. (In fact, Cotton sidewall tubulars with latex inners to me are still the best feeling combo ever) However, TPU tubes are so close to latex tubes these days, that I choose them over anything else. Easy to handle. Reliable. Hold air forever. Easily packable so you can take two or three of them in your saddle bag easily. No brainer, really.
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a tpu user here, on 700c roadbike.
i have used:
- revoloop ultra
- ridenow gen1 36g (big box)
- ridenow gen2 26g (the slimmer box)
- thinkrider 28g twinpack.
so far all my punctures are from sharp objects debris on road (glass, nail etc).
revoloop is expensive.
however my ridenows have reliability issues (seam glue failed, the rubber seal on innercore failed n loose air, etc). it looked like theres ridenow gen3 with metal valve. haven tried that.
now my rear tire is with thinkrider.
from 118g butyl to 30g tputube, thats insane weightsaving for minimal money
my repair kit for these tpu tubes, I got myself the tubolito repair kit (yes, i patch my non-tubolito tubes with it).
it came with glue and patches.
The glue tube lasts a lot of patching job (so many nail n glass shards incidents). I create patches from my old retired tpu tube cutouts. I saved the tubolito thicker patches for only large cuts.
patch success rate almost 100%.
So as repair kit on the go (ie long distance, bikepacking etc) the reparability n reusability is close to/same as butyl with 1/3 the space.
Never used latex, so i cant say for latex reparability
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I have a bunch of Chines TPU tubes from different brands. Regardless of the brand, the only thing negative with them is quality control. Some will lose air over 2 days, some will have faulty valve, some will have leakage from where the two ends meet. I have had one or other issue happen with RideNow, Cyclami, OffBondage (!!) and ThinkRider. Its great that they are dirt cheap. Just get any one that is the cheapest. There is no brand better than the other.
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my repair kit for these tpu tubes, I got myself the tubolito repair kit (yes, i patch my non-tubolito tubes with it).
it came with glue and patches.
The glue tube lasts a lot of patching job (so many nail n glass shards incidents). I create patches from my old retired tpu tube cutouts. I saved the tubolito thicker patches for only large cuts.
patch success rate almost 100%.
So as repair kit on the go (ie long distance, bikepacking etc) the reparability n reusability is close to/same as butyl with 1/3 the space.
Never used latex, so i cant say for latex reparability
I heard about the tpu cutouts as patches, still have to test it, though.
but about the glue, you can get a common vinyl/pvc glue, it shoulld work with the tpu material. I have been using that and heard of other people having success too
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I just realized my wheels are tubeless ready so I'm gonna give GP5K TLs a try. What's the advantage of latex/TPU tubes vs tubeless? Knock on wood I've got one flat in the last decade or so.
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Advantages of inner tubes (TPU/ latex)
- lighter
- cheaper
- less of a hassle to install
- no dirty frame (sealant sprayed on your frame) when you puncture
Advantages of tubeless:
- slightly better rolling resistance
- less chance of 'fatal' punctures, but no 100 percent guarantee for a puncture free ride
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I went tubeless but I regret it. It rides slightly better and I haven’t had a flat since riding on them but recently replaced my back tire because it was worn and changing it was one big mess with semi dried up goop and I quickly regretted my choice
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From Bicycle Rolling Resistance:
"Using latex inner tubes in tubeless tires is nearly as fast as setting them up tubeless. The most significant performance penalties are the higher weight of the inner tube and the loss of the re-sealing in case of a puncture that tubeless sealant in tubeless tires offers."
Sidenote: I ordered an electronic pump from Cycplus' latest update of pumps: E-Pump AS2 Pro. Offers up to 5 inflations at 80 PSI, and weighs less than two Co2 cartridges and inflator combined. To me this is the final nail in the coffin to running tubeless for road.
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From Bicycle Rolling Resistance:
"Using latex inner tubes in tubeless tires is nearly as fast as setting them up tubeless. The most significant performance penalties are the higher weight of the inner tube and the loss of the re-sealing in case of a puncture that tubeless sealant in tubeless tires offers."
Sidenote: I ordered an electronic pump from Cycplus' latest update of pumps: E-Pump AS2 Pro. Offers up to 5 inflations at 80 PSI, and weighs less than two Co2 cartridges and inflator combined. To me this is the final nail in the coffin to running tubeless for road.
Interesting but it's huge will see if they are able to slim it down in future iterations.
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From Bicycle Rolling Resistance:
"Using latex inner tubes in tubeless tires is nearly as fast as setting them up tubeless. The most significant performance penalties are the higher weight of the inner tube and the loss of the re-sealing in case of a puncture that tubeless sealant in tubeless tires offers."
Sidenote: I ordered an electronic pump from Cycplus' latest update of pumps: E-Pump AS2 Pro. Offers up to 5 inflations at 80 PSI, and weighs less than two Co2 cartridges and inflator combined. To me this is the final nail in the coffin to running tubeless for road.
First of all : Everytime you answer to a post, it is like God is talking to me ;D .
This Electronic pump is pretty expensive and I think that the price will be cheaper in the future. Moreover, you have to don't forget to charge it regularly (picture).
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I'm still torn. Latex is def cheaper and easier to install but for me they never held air for more than a day. I think they'd lose pressure on a long (for me) ride. I'm gonna try tubeless and see what happens
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I'm still torn. Latex is def cheaper and easier to install but for me they never held air for more than a day. I think they'd lose pressure on a long (for me) ride. I'm gonna try tubeless and see what happens
I believe RideNow TPU tubes are cheaper than any latex tube on the market. And doesn't lose pressure nearly as easily either.
I don't think latex tube would lose enough air to worry about, unless you ride for 8 hours non-stop, but I've had plenty of times when I had to inflate tubes twice in one day - in the morning to get to the work and in the evening to take a ride after work.
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I'm still torn. Latex is def cheaper and easier to install but for me they never held air for more than a day. I think they'd lose pressure on a long (for me) ride. I'm gonna try tubeless and see what happens
I really only have experience with Vittorias latex tubes, as a stand-alone inner tube and as part of their tubulars. In my experience they retain air pretty well actually when new. Not much at all within a day. It’s only really on the second or third day that you notice significant pressure loss. If they’re older however then it gets much worse. I had older tubulars where pressure already dropped noticeably within the same day. It wouldn’t be enough to be really noticeable within a single ride. But if you did more than 10 hours of riding or you’re out there all day, you would get to the point where you need to top up air.
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I've setup numerous gravel tires for tubeless with no issues, but setting up 25c tubeless tires was problematic for me. I don't see myself sizing up my tires for road. I just said f**k it, and went back to TPU tubes and clinchers. I can toss several TPU tubes in the saddle bag and carry an electric pump. Sure you're still prone to flats, but you can easily swap out your clincher tires depending on terrain. I prefer having that flexibility if I want to go with a sub-200g slick or a more durable road tire.