Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: patliean1 on October 17, 2024, 11:21:12 AM
-
Anyone know what frame this is? hahaha ;D
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/racing/exclusive-british-professional-team-glued-fake-uci-compliance-stickers-to-bikes-purchased-from-china (https://www.cyclingweekly.com/racing/exclusive-british-professional-team-glued-fake-uci-compliance-stickers-to-bikes-purchased-from-china)
Cliff Notes:
-The team began using unbranded bikes imported from China during the 2022 season after a sponsorship deal with Lapierre collapsed.
-Sources discovered the frames were not UCI legal; they are unbranded and the sticker does not conform to the UCI’s approval specification. A spokesperson for the team told CW that the stickers were applied “in-race”, contravening the UCI’s rules.
-
This is hilarious. :D
I will not be even surprised if this becomes more common with the prices of bikes nowdays. Although there seems to be a different cause in this particular case.
Pogacar allegedly got 8k euro for winning the UCI WC, less than a cost of a pro bike. I understand he is not buying his own bikes, but it illustrates how messed up this sport is
-
There's not that much info about LCR0X on the forum so maybe we could ask these guys how good the frames actually are? They've been riding them for a bit, right? I bet their bike mechanics measured the BB LoL
That's too funny
https://www.lightcarbon.com/new-integrated-road-disc-brake-frame_p136.html
-
They should have used these stickers. They look way more legit! Especially the one that says 100% not approved! ;D
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804264766364.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804264766364.html)
-
I suspected they were from Light Carbon.
Considering my Yishun/LC R086-D frame is stellar, it makes sense.
-
I suspected they were from Light Carbon.
Considering my Yishun/LC R086-D frame is stellar, it makes sense.
I believe cycling news has confirmed it is LightCarbon LCR0X-D
-
I believe cycling news has confirmed it is LightCarbon LCR0X-D
Where did you read this?
-
I believe cycling news has confirmed it is LightCarbon LCR0X-D
Overall shape of the frame looks to be the same but the derailleur hanger is different. Could it be same mold from a different supplier?
-
I'm gonna wait for @SergeK to chime in hahaha
My take is: This should end any doubt whether or not a "Chinese" frame could withstand the use of professional cyclists. Assuming it is in fact LightCarbon. Shout out to them for offering a quality product.
-
I'm gonna wait for @SergeK to chime in hahaha
My take is: This should end any doubt whether or not a "Chinese" frame could withstand the use of professional cyclists. Assuming it is in fact LightCarbon. Shout out to them for offering a quality product.
Alternatively, I would expect mainstream manufacturers to be shitting bricks from this debacle and probably in backroom talks to make sure there are some serious repercussions for this stunt, officially or unofficially. The very idea that people might find out a a chiner frame is every bit as competitive and useful as a mainstream frame has got to scare them.
-
Where did you read this?
Lmao, like I said cyclingnews
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/british-continental-team-saint-piran-admit-to-faking-uci-approval-for-unmarked-chinese-frames/
-
I'm gonna wait for @SergeK to chime in hahaha
My take is: This should end any doubt whether or not a "Chinese" frame could withstand the use of professional cyclists. Assuming it is in fact LightCarbon. Shout out to them for offering a quality product.
Apparently LightCarbon instructed them to apply the UCI sticker “ Saint Piran acted on the advice of the manufacturer and an external expert and understood they were in line with UCI regulations at all times. It appears that advice was incorrect. We have now reported this to the UCI and British Cycling and will abide by their ruling."
-
Don't think the article specified if the frames actually complied with UCI regs or not. Just that they weren't formally approved. Or did I miss something?
-
Don't think the article specified if the frames actually complied with UCI regs or not. Just that they weren't formally approved. Or did I miss something?
Im sure they would pass UCI regulation, but they have not been submitted for testing which results in the breach. Its kind of like OnePlus (Cell phone company) not submitting their phone for an IP67 certification years ago. Because they know it would pass the test, but the cost of the test would add cost to the end consumer to get this certification.
-
I love it. Next, a whole team running "Ass-works" branded frames with mix and match components from all group set manufacturers winning races :D
Maybe they should play the woke card and say that 1. The frame identifies as UCI legal so who's to say this isn't true and 2. The Chinese said it's UCI legal and we don't want to be called racist so we didn't challenge them. 3, bonus one: turns out the team has been going faster on these bikes than on Lapierre.
Flex time: a pro jumped on my bike over the summer and she said it felt better than her Lapierre bike...
There's a good chance they chose to believe the frames were UCI legal btw, because unbranded frames like that scream OEM, so anyone looking at this on site doing their job, even poorly, would be asking questions.
-
I prefer these stickers by far ;D
(https://assets.bigcartel.com/product_images/295117521/9F226651-84F0-46E6-9423-0C7793A9268F.jpeg?auto=format&fit=max&w=800)
-
The issue is that the stickers were applied during the race and weren't applied at the factory, right?
-
This is the same bike as the AMG Petronas road-bike right? It wouldn't surprise me if LightCarbon helped some other brand get UCI approval for the design, but because of how the process works, that certification belongs to the brand for the specific frame and fork tested. An example is the Cinelli Pressure and Engine 11 road frame, which have UCI approval, but the Raceline Hider and the Top Carbon versions don't.
I know it's a minority view on this forum, but I like seeing brands get their frames approved. To me, it signals that they think their bike is good enough and that they are serious about their product and brand as a player in the sport. Many Chinese brands have their frames approved, including Tavelo, Winspace, Elilee, Seka, Yoeleo, Triaero, Rollingston, Sunpeed, XDS and Pardus. The one frame that stands out on the list, though, is the ICAN FL1 since its under the OEM brand, and I would have assumed they would only seek approval for their Triaero brand.
I don't know if any frame checking happens outside of UCI-level events or the pro fields at nationals. I suspect it doesn't, which is why a team could probably get away with it for as long as they did.
-
I like seeing brands get their frames approved. To me, it signals that they think their bike is good enough and that they are serious about their product and brand as a player in the sport.
I wonder how much such a certification costs. Given that carbon layup know how and the entire industry is basically in Xiamen now, where any western manufacturer is a very niche, very fringe player, i really think the relevance of a UCI certification is eroding. I can see that an OEM frame would need to be UCI compliant in its measurements (the one aspect of UCI that keeps bikes looking like bikes, unlike triathlon bikes that tend to look like design student wet dreams), but UCI certified...
If i were racing and paying for my frame, or if my team were small, i'd absolutely consider slapping a UCI logo on it if it saves me signficant money, or allows me to buy better / more modern kit for a given budget.
I think enough people on this forum are riding enough bikes hard enough to know that an OEM frame can be raced on. It assumes common sense and caution, like not buying uber light fakes that apparently do break under load, but OEM has nothing to do with fakes.
In fact, if UCI stickers are preventing even one team from being created, or forcing it to shut down, i think it's bad. The world's moved on, and i know enough about the murky world of certifications to be suspicious of it anyway.
Btw, Paul Milder's book "what's wrong with china" talks about certifications in china. Nice book. Poorly made in china, same author, also a nice book.
-
Btw, Paul Milder's book "what's wrong with china" talks about certifications in china. Nice book. Poorly made in china, same author, also a nice book.
I don't read books from fat, balding middle age vanilla dudes who claim to be an authority on anything. Guys like that probably got rejected by the local women. ::)
-
I don't read books from fat, balding middle age vanilla dudes who claim to be an authority on anything. Guys like that probably got rejected by the local women. ::)
Lol. You do you.
Some of my most interesting reads are books from people I disagree with. Understanding other people's perspectives is helpful mental gymnastics at many levels.
Also let's be real, your comment is stupid. he's not writing about dating, I care about his professional experience, not what he looks like.
-
Some of my most interesting reads are books from people I disagree with. Understanding other people's perspectives is helpful mental gymnastics at many levels.
I've met some amazingly talented and helpful folks within cycling (and life) by taking this approach. Some of which on the surface felt like personal attacks towards me. All it took was a listening ear and then BAM a new long-term friend and resource.
-
As always, fuck the UCI.
-
My buddy has a LightCarbon LCR0X-D.
Might print a few of these up to put on his bike.
-
I wonder how much such a certification costs. Given that carbon layup know how and the entire industry is basically in Xiamen now, where any western manufacturer is a very niche, very fringe player, i really think the relevance of a UCI certification is eroding. I can see that an OEM frame would need to be UCI compliant in its measurements (the one aspect of UCI that keeps bikes looking like bikes, unlike triathlon bikes that tend to look like design student wet dreams), but UCI certified...
If i were racing and paying for my frame, or if my team were small, i'd absolutely consider slapping a UCI logo on it if it saves me signficant money, or allows me to buy better / more modern kit for a given budget.
I think enough people on this forum are riding enough bikes hard enough to know that an OEM frame can be raced on. It assumes common sense and caution, like not buying uber light fakes that apparently do break under load, but OEM has nothing to do with fakes.
In fact, if UCI stickers are preventing even one team from being created, or forcing it to shut down, i think it's bad. The world's moved on, and i know enough about the murky world of certifications to be suspicious of it anyway.
Btw, Paul Milder's book "what's wrong with china" talks about certifications in china. Nice book. Poorly made in china, same author, also a nice book.
For a carbon frame like this, it's about $6000-$7000USD (I think it's actually priced in CHF) + a frame to be destructively tested. However, this is on top of third-party ISO certs, where the big costs would be. Many higher-quality open molds do have ISO tests done by a third party like SGS paid for by the factory now, so seeing a variant on the UCI list is nice because it means those certs have been checked. However, verifying through SGS if I was planning on a commercial relationship would be easy enough.
-
"Wuhan Weapon" should become a trending phase on this forum. I quite like it.
-
My buddy has a LightCarbon LCR0X-D.
Might print a few of these up to put on his bike.
Could we replace UCi with chinertown
-
"Wuhan Weapon" should become a trending phase on this forum. I quite like it.
Wuhan is the town where the P4 lab from which covid leaked is. Xiamen is where carbon bike stuff is made. I'm not sure whether people making these stickers are a bit dim and meant xiamen, or if the covid reference is deliberate. Either way, i think having xiamen weapon would be acknowledging Chinese's hegemony in the carbon bike market, while wuhan weapon is rather cringe.
-
Wuhan is the town where the P4 lab from which covid leaked is. Xiamen is where carbon bike stuff is made. I'm not sure whether people making these stickers are a bit dim and meant xiamen, or if the covid reference is deliberate. Either way, i think having xiamen weapon would be acknowledging Chinese's hegemony in the carbon bike market, while wuhan weapon is rather cringe.
+1 for Xiamen Weapon
-
The UCI approval only covers that the bikes respects the measurements laid out by the UCI regulations. There's no safety testing involved. Costs starts at 5000 CHF I believe. The entire protocol including prices are here:
https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/2rAfC3xzdcO3k3KSUOTn6Q/3307965302e74bd65c70790d1274712e/APPROVAL_PROTOCOL_FOR_FRAMESETS.pdf
-
The UCI approval only covers that the bikes respects the measurements laid out by the UCI regulations. There's no safety testing involved. Costs starts at 5000 CHF I believe. The entire protocol including prices are here:
https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/2rAfC3xzdcO3k3KSUOTn6Q/3307965302e74bd65c70790d1274712e/APPROVAL_PROTOCOL_FOR_FRAMESETS.pdf
Almost as if the UCI is a money laundering outfit with a cycling hobby.
-
+ a frame to be destructively tested.
Lol I don't think this is true.
-
The UCI approval only covers that the bikes respects the measurements laid out by the UCI regulations. There's no safety testing involved. Costs starts at 5000 CHF I believe. The entire protocol including prices are here:
https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/2rAfC3xzdcO3k3KSUOTn6Q/3307965302e74bd65c70790d1274712e/APPROVAL_PROTOCOL_FOR_FRAMESETS.pdf
I love this. I too can read a CAD drawing and stamp a letter for 5k. Hell, I'll do it for 4k! And throw in a framed picture of a cute puppy with a hat, to create goodwill, I'm nice like that.
-
Lol I don't think this is true.
I could be wrong since the approval process has changed several times, but I think the full 5KCHF / 6000USD process which is required for carbon monocoque frames (but not custom frames made with lugs or metal custom frames) requires submission of a prototype that they expect to break and cut up for a visual inspection as well as to take measurements. I believe this requirement led custom makers with UCI-approved designs to protest and subsequently have the intermediate process designed.
However, I did write "destructively test," which implies testing to failure, and that's my error. I meant destroyed in testing.
-
I'm not sure whether people making these stickers are a bit dim and meant xiamen, or if the covid reference is deliberate. Either way, i think having xiamen weapon would be acknowledging Chinese's hegemony in the carbon bike market, while wuhan weapon is rather cringe.
They picked it up from the article in OP. It may be cringe to you but no one outside of this fringe forum knows what Xiamen is w.r.t carbon bike parts and even if they do, no one cares. Wuhan weapon just rolls off the tongue easily v/s Xiamen weapon. Anyway, rather funny this whole incidence.
-
This is my frame ;D
Would be cheaper if they painted it in same way LC does it for boutique brands. Than you probably eligible to slap the sticker on it.
-
I believe cycling news has confirmed it is LightCarbon LCR0X-D
Pondering on this frame, but doesn't seem very popular on these forums. Anyone have experience with this frame?
-
LOL
FWIW The woman who finished 2nd in the UCI U23 MTB WC is on a Lightcarbon XC bike
-
Pondering on this frame, but doesn't seem very popular on these forums. Anyone have experience with this frame?
If you forget the cheese frame sent to a Brazilian customer (or Portuguese?), and if it happens to be normal to be able to flex the down tube with your thumb (honestly i'm not sure if it's a feature or a bug), and a few other issues i'm forgetting with the 17D, Lightcarbon on this forum has good reputation, as far as i can tell (I considered the 17D myself until i saw the shape of the down tube, at which point i lost interest & track). Dengfu or Tantan, for example, have a lot of horror stories about them. Much fewer w Lightcarbon.
-
same frame and UCI-approved.
The UCI certification is simply due to the brand...
https://myvelo.de/products/myvelo-verona-rennrad?variant=44923211972873&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwveK4BhD4ARIsAKy6pMJN5g1ZXT8lwjs9ahZ3eRktAg-53vgYbipRCWLSjohCx4p4kDskoMQaAkeNEALw_wcB
Same frame and not UCI approved.
In Germany, the Leeze factory team still rides with these parts in the amateur and elite amateur classes and nobody has ever been interested.
https://leezebikestore.de/products/leeze-aero-one
-
I wonder how much such a certification costs. Given that carbon layup know how and the entire industry is basically in Xiamen now, where any western manufacturer is a very niche, very fringe player, i really think the relevance of a UCI certification is eroding. I can see that an OEM frame would need to be UCI compliant in its measurements (the one aspect of UCI that keeps bikes looking like bikes, unlike triathlon bikes that tend to look like design student wet dreams), but UCI certified...
If i were racing and paying for my frame, or if my team were small, i'd absolutely consider slapping a UCI logo on it if it saves me signficant money, or allows me to buy better / more modern kit for a given budget.
I think enough people on this forum are riding enough bikes hard enough to know that an OEM frame can be raced on. It assumes common sense and caution, like not buying uber light fakes that apparently do break under load, but OEM has nothing to do with fakes.
In fact, if UCI stickers are preventing even one team from being created, or forcing it to shut down, i think it's bad. The world's moved on, and i know enough about the murky world of certifications to be suspicious of it anyway.
Btw, Paul Milder's book "what's wrong with china" talks about certifications in china. Nice book. Poorly made in china, same author, also a nice book.
The UCI itself is corrupt and has never been about the best interest of the sport, from looking the other way during the EPO era to the most recent debacle around Muriel Furrer's tragic death at the UCI World Championships (where she lay for over an hour in the forest after she crashed before they found her, because the UCI couldn't be bothered to give GPS units to U23 women).
I have no doubt this certification process is more about UCI getting some additional revenue and protecting the interests of big brands.
-
Pondering on this frame, but doesn't seem very popular on these forums. Anyone have experience with this frame?
I've been riding this frame (branded as Allebike) for over 2 years now, racing, training, audax. From the frame quality perspective it is good - brake mounts, bottom bracket, headtube are all faced and round as it supposed to be. The ride is rather stiff on both front and rear end of the bike, which is expected from such tube shapes. For shorter races it is absolutely okay, but my butt was beaten to death on race-paced audax on really shitty roads. Steering is confident but more on a slow side.
The issue I had with it is the crack which emerged on the top side of the top tube. Seatpost clamp started to push on the tube which caused the damage. My local carbon expert is fixing it now. He has seen such issue twice (on Colnagos) and he mentioned it due to insufficient amount of carbon layers in the area.
On the other (smaller) notes:
- Seatpost allows for tremendous fore/aft adjustment but ugly as hell. I believe such thing belongs to TT bikes only. The saddleclamp is very stiff to lateral movement of the rails and if you want to make small adjustment on the go you have to disassemble the whole clamping system. It is easier to move the whole clamp for for/aft adjustment, but then to reach the bolts (which are located underneath the saddle body) you need very short (if a saddle has no cutoff) or very long hex key (if saddle has cutoff).
- The seatpost clamp bolt is located VERY deep in the top tube. It is not possible to reach it with a regular multitool. Same applies to the torque wrench.
- The frame has thin (to modern standards) down tube and is not optimised for regular bottle. You may consider aero bottles if it bothers you.
- Derailleur hanger is not a perfect fit for the frame, it has some play with only two mounting bolts, but once you clamp the axle it is fine, no issues with the shifting perfomance.
if it happens to be normal to be able to flex the down tube with your thumb (honestly i'm not sure if it's a feature or a bug)
Flexing tubes, especially on not stressed areas, is fine. I have owned several top end branded bikes and they all have very thin carbon in some places, you can flex it with your tumb quite easily.
-
I've been riding this frame (branded as Allebike) for over 2 years now, racing, training, audax. From the frame quality perspective it is good - brake mounts, bottom bracket, headtube are all faced and round as it supposed to be. The ride is rather stiff on both front and rear end of the bike, which is expected from such tube shapes. For shorter races it is absolutely okay, but my butt was beaten to death on race-paced audax on really shitty roads. Steering is confident but more on a slow side.
The issue I had with it is the crack which emerged on the top side of the top tube. Seatpost clamp started to push on the tube which caused the damage. My local carbon expert is fixing it now. He has seen such issue twice (on Colnagos) and he mentioned it due to insufficient amount of carbon layers in the area.
On the other (smaller) notes:
- Seatpost allows for tremendous fore/aft adjustment but ugly as hell. I believe such thing belongs to TT bikes only. The saddleclamp is very stiff to lateral movement of the rails and if you want to make small adjustment on the go you have to disassemble the whole clamping system. It is easier to move the whole clamp for for/aft adjustment, but then to reach the bolts (which are located underneath the saddle body) you need very short (if a saddle has no cutoff) or very long hex key (if saddle has cutoff).
- The seatpost clamp bolt is located VERY deep in the top tube. It is not possible to reach it with a regular multitool. Same applies to the torque wrench.
- The frame has thin (to modern standards) down tube and is not optimised for regular bottle. You may consider aero bottles if it bothers you.
- Derailleur hanger is not a perfect fit for the frame, it has some play with only two mounting bolts, but once you clamp the axle it is fine, no issues with the shifting perfomance.
Flexing tubes, especially on not stressed areas, is fine. I have owned several top end branded bikes and they all have very thin carbon in some places, you can flex it with your tumb quite easily.
Thanks looks like some quality issues with the seatpost and I dont like the look of the seatpost either.
-
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/racing/saint-piran-announces-closure-leaving-no-british-mens-continental-teams