Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Sebastian on January 28, 2025, 05:51:49 AM
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First impression of these wheels. I think these are a winner in terms of bang for your buck.
I bought this wheelset from serenadebikes.net which is the brandname of 7-Tiger Bike Components. These wheels are clearly modelled after the Princeton Carbonworks 4550 Evolution wheels, but obviously a LOT more affordable and a lot less over the top in terms of decals and design.
They're 529 USD with Pillar Wing20 spokes and 569 with Sapim CX-Rays (which are what the original wheels use). Personally, I've built and own wheels with both types of spokes and, I think they're pretty much the same and they're certainly indistinguishable when riding. The Pillars might be a touch less aero, being 0.2mm wider but I believe that's splitting hairs.
The specs
The standout feature obviously is the weight. As you can see, I've measured them to weigh 1190g. Frankly, I think that's absolutely bonkers for a 50mm deep clincher wheelset with steel spokes.
Inner width is a more traditional 21.5mm hooked. Externally, I've measured them to be 29.75mm.
My other wheelset has an internal width of 25mm and personally, I've come to the conclusion that I like a narrower internal rim width more because the tire cross section of a 28mm is rounder and steering and handling feels better. More like I'm used to from a tubular. Also, particularly when climbing out of the saddle, I really didn't like the feeling of a squishy front tire squirming underneath me with a 25mm internal rim. I'm talking the exact same tire pressure. About 60psi in the front for me. I think 21-23mm internal is the sweet spot for 28c-30c tires which is what I ride. It just feels better and more nimble to me.
So are they aero? Obviously I need more riding time to at least assess whether there's a discernible difference in the data on my usual routes. These 28c Tufo tires blow up to 30.5mm on these rims. As you can see though, the rim at least visually appears to basically be exactly as wide as the tire.
The ride
I've been looking for that "zingy" kind of feeling of a superlight wheelset. IME it truly transforms the way that a bike feels and it's just plain fun to ride. My rim brake Chinarello that I use for crits has 60mm deep tubular wheels weighing just 1300g. Combined with cotton tubs that makes for a truly special ride feel. Aero and still crazy responsive when sprinting up sharp inclines. These wheels can recreate that kind of feeling in a truly magical way. I had a super aero wide wheelset on there before that weighs 1450g. But it just felt sluggish every time I needed to sprint up a hill. These just GO. And I don't feel like they lack inertia on the flats. There's no discernible lack of stiffness. The hubs are the now ubiquitous straight pull ratchet centerlock hubs with 36 tooth. They're DT Swiss compatible should you have to source different freehubs.
This is my second wheelset by Serenade / 7-Tiger. I can wholeheartedly recommend them. I think they offer some of the best stuff there is in the 4-700USD price range. You can order via their website. However, I usually communicate per whatsapp with Marya (+86 180 2020 4229)
This is my initial impression. I've only ridden these for a week now and I'll do an update when I've done a few thousand kilometres.
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Very interesting, thank you for that post.
+1 on the pillar wing 20. i've used these and sapim cx ray on a dozen wheelsets, i can't tell them apart, and because they're a tad cheaper, all my latest wheelsets i've order w pillar wing 20.
I may reach out to Marya on whatsapp to get a quote, i need a set for a girl friend.
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Forgot to put a link to these wheels:
https://serenadebikes.net/50mm-Wave-Whape-Carbon-Racing-Bike-Wheelset-Ratchet-hub-1200g-p6220620.html
Also, shipping is fast for anyone in Europe because they have a warehouse in Spain.
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Very nice looking wheels, was looking for something similiar for my velobuild. So shipping from spain no additional costs? As a loyal customer can you ask a code for referring your friends on chinertown? :P -10% maybe worth trying ;-)
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Very nice looking wheels, was looking for something similiar for my velobuild. So shipping from spain no additional costs? As a loyal customer can you ask a code for referring your friends on chinertown? :P -10% maybe worth trying ;-)
Well, I can certainly try :) They have some sort of first purchase discount anyway if you sign up for their newsletter, IIRC.
It's Chinese New Year, though, so I wouldn't count on a quick reply.
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Well, I can certainly try :) They have some sort of first purchase discount anyway if you sign up for their newsletter, IIRC.
It's Chinese New Year, though, so I wouldn't count on a quick reply.
Did you have to pay import duties/customs? What country was it shipped to?
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Btw, are they magicians, or are they cutting corners? Do we know from where they saved the weight, and is it safe / as reliable as a wheelset 100g heavier? I think light carbon (i think it's them?) makes a version of their wheels for super light people, for example, and i wouldnt ride them, because i'm not exactly light... Were corners cut there?
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Did you have to pay import duties/customs? What country was it shipped to?
Shipping to Germany. 30USD. No customs obviously bc it's both within the EU.
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Btw, are they magicians, or are they cutting corners? Do we know from where they saved the weight, and is it safe / as reliable as a wheelset 100g heavier? I think light carbon (i think it's them?) makes a version of their wheels for super light people, for example, and i wouldnt ride them, because i'm not exactly light... Were corners cut there?
Well, the originals are 1220g so not exactly a huge amount heavier. And there's no specified weight limit to my knowledge.
I think there's two things going on:
A) The hubs are VERY light at 248g for the set. They do spin very smoothly but it obviously means the bearings are probably smaller in diameter. That's a common way of saving weight. If the bearings are opf sufficient quality, that's fine. The jury is still out in terms of durability of course. That's why I'll post a long term update.
B) There's weight savings in the rim profile. Obviously with these being wavy rims, there's less material used than with a standard 50mm rim. AND they're simply narrower. Would they be 32mm wide or even wider, you'd probably be looking at a 1300-1350g wheelset which can be considered quite common now, right?
Edit: Rider weight limit is 100kg as per the product page of these wheels. (See link above)
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Those are some crazy specs. I would prefer just a hair more external width. I think you are onto something with narrower IW and feel though. I have 28s on 24IW wheels and lateral stability feels a little off. I'm not crazy about it. I preferred 28s on IIRC 19-21 IW wheels (whatever cheapo Elite Drive wheels are)
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Would you recon if they could work on some terrain or they are road only? This 100kg limit tells me don't but.....
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Would you recon if they could work on some terrain or they are road only? This 100kg limit tells me don't but.....
I think these are intended to be road wheels and not much else. I mean sure you could obviously still ride them on gravel but I‘d suggest there’s options better suited to that.
Serenade offer a 25internal/30external/30deep gravel wheelset that’s like 1180g for around the same money or even less if you want something seriously light. Others out there have similar options, I believe.
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I think this is a wheelset from Serenade that was recommended in another thread here in Chinertown related to gravel
https://serenadebikes.net/1320gr-40mm-carbon-gravel-bike-wheelset-hookless-paintless-rims-disc-brake-ratchet-wheels-p4485391.html (https://serenadebikes.net/1320gr-40mm-carbon-gravel-bike-wheelset-hookless-paintless-rims-disc-brake-ratchet-wheels-p4485391.html)
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I've been looking for that "zingy" kind of feeling of a superlight wheelset. IME it truly transforms the way that a bike feels and it's just plain fun to ride.
Kind of surprising considering the tires mounted in the photos. I have literally worn out hundreds of tubulars over the years and never met a Tufo I liked. To be fair I have never tried this version, are they built like the older versions (latex bonded to casing) ?
What I did like about Tufo tires is that if you had a flat, some tubeless sealant could be used to get you going again. Unfortunately I found they were only suitable for training.
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Kind of surprising considering the tires mounted in the photos. I have literally worn out hundreds of tubulars over the years and never met a Tufo I liked. To be fair I have never tried this version, are they built like the older versions (latex bonded to casing) ?
What I did like about Tufo tires is that if you had a flat, some tubeless sealant could be used to get you going again. Unfortunately I found they were only suitable for training.
The recent Tufo tubeless tyres are much, much better than old Tufos - forget about those. The Comtura Aero, Comtura Duo and Endurance 7TR all test well in indepedent testing from bicyclerollingresistance.com. The gravel tyres (Thundero) are excellent too. Tufo has taken a massive step with their recent releases.
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+1 Tufo are now a force to be reckoned with. These Comtura Aero clinchers are Tube type tires which are very similar in construction to the old Conti GP4000.
I ride the Hi-Composite tubular in 28mm on my rim brake tub wheelset and it’s much better than the old Tufo tubs. + being basically a tubeless tubular, you can use sealant very reliably and even plug them with Dynaplugs to get you home. No need to replace a punctured tub on the road.
The Tufo Thundero is hands down the best gravel tire I’ve ever ridden and it’s what brought me back to Tufo in the first place. I had ditched them and forgotten about them much like you because of the awful reputation their tubs had in the past.
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I think these are intended to be road wheels and not much else. I mean sure you could obviously still ride them on gravel but I‘d suggest there’s options better suited to that.
Serenade offer a 25internal/30external/30deep gravel wheelset that’s like 1180g for around the same money or even less if you want something seriously light. Others out there have similar options, I believe.
Yeah but ngl those are visually pleasing
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Any thoughts on the performance of these wheels in cross winds?
I'm interested in getting a pair of either these Serenades, or another set of wavy/undulated wheels from xmcarbonspeed, LightCarbon, Farsports, or Yuanan. However, I'm skeptical that there's been any real testing to prove they improve performance in cross winds. The aesthetics do not match my bike very well, so if there is not a performance benefit, I'll probably just purchase a more traditional 50mm rim.
From what I can see, the Light Bicycle Falcon Pro and Elite Wheels Drive Helix seem closest to the Zipp and Princeton designs, but they're out of my price range.
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So, Marya sent me a discount code: WPOSJ62ZNPQ6
It should give you 10% discount. Line I said, if you sign up as a new customer you should get that anyway.
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With the discount code, unique wavy look and decent weight, these aren't a bad deal! Plus I only ride 25c tires since I just don't like 28c, so 21mm IW isn't a big deal to me.
Maybe I'll pick these up later in the year! ;D
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and yet another brand i need to check out... im planning a new build right now and yea sick seeing all these new to me options!
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Any thoughts on the performance of these wheels in cross winds?
Too early to tell really. I‘ve only done a few hours on these. The front wheel might have felt less susceptible to gusts. But i need more riding time to really be able to tell.
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Are the stickers/Decals removeable or did you somehow order them without?
I've been eyeing buying from them, but I'm wanting something with no logos.
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They‘re removable.
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They‘re removable.
Please forgive the derail - as you can see, I'm new here - but is that a genuine Dogma or a replica? If the latter, I would very, very much like to know where you got it. :)
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So, Marya sent me a discount code: WPOSJ62ZNPQ6
It should give you 10% discount. Line I said, if you sign up as a new customer you should get that anyway.
Hah nice, I was talking to her earlier she told me to wait with ordering. Sebastian will get a discount code. They do deliver, that's good. Ordered a pair, i'll be a test person to :)
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That looks like the same mold as all of the superteam base wheels. Albeit a good price. Wing 20.soomes are great. I've used them in on multiple gravel and MTB wheels.
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Please forgive the derail - as you can see, I'm new here - but is that a genuine Dogma or a replica? If the latter, I would very, very much like to know where you got it. :)
I was gonna write a review in the VB 218 thread. I got the 218 in the rim brake version. I liked the geometry, fit and handling so much that I wanted a disc version, too. The 218 is not available anymore. So I went with this one from the QILEFU Store on aliexpress after much back and forth.
Not only is this cheaper than the 218, but it is also lighter and cleaner/better finished in many places, for instance headset and headset cover fit, BB threads, no sharp edges anywhere. Very happy with it. But i‘ve only done around 700km on it, much of that indoor bc of the weather here. So too early for a final verdict.
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Sebastian…..did you figure out who produced that 218 frame you bought off Ali? All of their frames look very very clean!
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Thank you, Sebastian. I know where my frame is coming from, now. :)
Suppose I'll have to wait until after the New Year to contact them about geometry, BB spec and the like.
Edit: Wait, I found all that.
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Sebastian…..did you figure out who produced that 218 frame you bought off Ali? All of their frames look very very clean!
No idea really. But there is enough of a difference in the supplied hardware and details to assume that it’s a different manufacturer from Velobuild. The headset bearings on this one are 8mm tall instead of 7mm on the VB, for instance. Which is great because I could swap in a Japanese stainless steel bearing from Tange in the bottom to prevent rust and corosion issues.
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Very interesting, thanks OP. I wonder how the Serenade frames are.
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How long did it take after ordering before delivery btw?
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How long did it take after ordering before delivery btw?
Around 10 days, I think it was.
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Around 10 days, I think it was.
Well, thanks to you, and to me casually researching wheels for my build, I just ordered a frame. :D
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Communication with Serenabikes is very tedious, slow and exhausting.
It's hard to get binding information.
I've been trying in vain to fix an order for more than 10 days and I'm starting to lose patience.
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Communication with Serenabikes is very tedious, slow and exhausting.
It's hard to get binding information.
I've been trying in vain to fix an order for more than 10 days and I'm starting to lose patience.
It's a disaster lol, still have no clue where my wheels are at this moment. After two weeks the answer was "Next monday will leave to China"
Pfff, if it takes time I understand that but they should atleast give serious updates. Like 'Our stock in Spain was empty, these will be shipped from China with(insert shipping company) and will arrive at +- (insert date). But no ..
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Write yesteday for a set, still no answer on whatsapp.
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It's a disaster lol, still have no clue where my wheels are at this moment. After two weeks the answer was "Next monday will leave to China"
Pfff, if it takes time I understand that but they should atleast give serious updates. Like 'Our stock in Spain was empty, these will be shipped from China with(insert shipping company) and will arrive at +- (insert date). But no ..
Marya from serenadebikes told me, that in Spain is no stock and only wheel repair.
@ wandulus
@ Avalius
Who is your contact person?
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Quick communication isn't exactly their forte, sometimes at least. There's three Whatsapp numbers for three different sales agents on their website. I have dealt with Marya exclusively so far, however. I was told that there's a warehouse in Spain and wheels can be shipped directly from there, if they're in stock. They established it there because they have a big customer base among MTB riders in Spain apparently.
They've been nothing but reliable in my case. My first wheelset from them came from China which took the usual two to three weeks via DPD.
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Marya from serenadebikes told me, that in Spain is no stock and only wheel repair.
@ wandulus
@ Avalius
Who is your contact person?
I wrote via Whatsapp to Marya.
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I was about to pull the trigger on the wavy set but a couple of people on the below forum have experienced structural issues with the rim including the wavy design which is enough to put me off this brand. YMMV.
PS it's a Spanish forum so use google translate - the last 3-4 pages is where the issues pop up.
https://www.foromtb.com/threads/censo-ruedas-chinas.1184418/page-973
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My set of 55deep/25internal wheelset has seen a lot of abuse and is holding up fine. That one is 1450g however. The wavy wheels have not seen too much road use and I will report back.
The squeeze test is not really indicative of build quality. Wall thickness will obviously be thin on a lightweight rim just like with frames. Long term durability is an unknown with these. So let’s see. Maybe I give them a run on cobbles to see if they can take it. That’s usually a good indicator for durability.
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I wrote via Whatsapp to Marya.
Same here
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Any thoughts on the performance of these wheels in cross winds?
I'm interested in getting a pair of either these Serenades, or another set of wavy/undulated wheels from xmcarbonspeed, LightCarbon, Farsports, or Yuanan. However, I'm skeptical that there's been any real testing to prove they improve performance in cross winds. The aesthetics do not match my bike very well, so if there is not a performance benefit, I'll probably just purchase a more traditional 50mm rim.
From what I can see, the Light Bicycle Falcon Pro and Elite Wheels Drive Helix seem closest to the Zipp and Princeton designs, but they're out of my price range.
Sorry for late response.
I got pair of wave wheels (Nextie 45-50) from about 8 months and 4K Km. They perform really well. I live in a really step zone, so a lot of climbs and fast descends. Only one freaky moment, on a fast descend (about 80 Kmh) with about 30 Kmh crosswind. Nothing to scare about, but to be aware of it. I'm used to 80mm profiles on TT Bikes, and this wheels are night and day compared to that.
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Arrived today, they look good. Will test :-)