Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: Tijoe on June 06, 2025, 01:31:51 PM
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Since the original thread is over 120 days old, this is new thread regarding these IIIPRO brakes and my experience with them.
Existing thread: https://chinertown.com/index.php?topic=4049.0
My conclusion after almost 2 years of usage! No they are not to be trusted. My trust in them being reliable and safe is gone!!!
Yesterday I finished riding a 300 mile multi-day bike-camping ride. 32K up and 32K descending. About 100 miles into the ride, the rear brake started losing pressure. I had to start pumping up the brakes by rapid-pulsing of the rear lever. This made descending steep sections of slippery gravel roads a challenge. This is the 5th 4-piston IIIPro caliper that failed, and the front caliper on the same bike is starting to have the same problem. (FYI, My brother, who I talked into purchasing a set suffered the same failure on one of his calipers.)
After trying, unsuccessfully!, to rebuild my first pair of calipers, failed, this caliper will join 4 others in the "failed parts" bin.
Every caliper that has failed, appears to start sucking in small amounts of air between the seals and the piston/body. Over time I can start to see a small amount of air bubbles coming out of the seals when the calipers are activated on the bench. When too much air works it way into the calipers they loose pressure.
I really am Pissed off about this overall.
I will try one more time to try to work with IIIPRO to figure out if any of the calipers can be repaired and trusted to use again!
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804577690212.html
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Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me six times….
Just buy some cheap Shimano brakes, or if you’re hauling heavy loads on a flat bar bike routinely, bite the bullet and invest in some Mavens. Unlike a lot of other components, brakes are an area where Chinese products are not up to par with established brands (not even necessarily western ones; TRP is Taiwanese and they make good brakes too).
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The current AliX price doesn't seem all that great compared to the seemingly identical Clarks branded brakes.
[urlhttps://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/clarks-crs-c4-cnc-4-piston-hydraulic-disc-brake-set-295294.htmlurl]
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Can you please explain the thought process of buying the same product 6 times? I'm not making fun, I really do wonder how you justified giving the same product another chance, then another, then another, then another, then another?
We have been running ltwoo er9 on five bikes and all but one derailleurs died once, but no derailleur has died a second time, and it was across five bikes.
Also, it's a bummer, because the calipers look similar to the road version that came out recently as reviewed by trace vélo. And I'm tempted.
Actually, I have "4 sets" of the IIIPros, and one set of the 4-piston Bucklos brakes. (Bucklos = parent company of IIIPro.)
I purchased the IIIPro brakes "2-sets" at a time during Aliexpress sales, about 6 months apart, before I started having problems with the calipers. (Purchased 3 sets for bikes I built, and a spare set.)
Based on the initial reviews 1-1/2 to 2 years ago, they appeared to be a good modulated feeling lightweight great brake for the price. - They have performed very well overall, but appear to have a short seal life.
When I think about the bike that the calipers are failing on, it appears that on this bike, I do a lot of heavy duty long downhill braking, at high speeds, and this is where the calipers don't last. This is my hardtail that doubles as a bike camping/bikepacker. I am guessing that heat build-up in the calipers is doing something to the seals.
Since I started this thread, I wrote Bucklos explaining the situation, and to ask if they have a seal kit, versus me purchasing replacement seals based on digital caliper measurements and what I could find online for sale.
I've had my fair share of premature leaky seal failures on my XT calipers over the years, so having seal failures on the IIIPros isn't too big of a surprise.
What I would like to know is if IIIPro is using a crappy seal material, or if they have a design flaw in the calipers leading to short seal life. (When I look at the design of the caliper bore that the seals and pistons fit into, they visually look the same as all the other calipers I have rebuilt over the years.
of the leaky calipers. I see no signs of wear on the bores or pistons.
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Actually, I have "4 sets" of the IIIPros, and one set of the 4-piston Bucklos brakes. (Bucklos = parent company of IIIPro.)
I purchased the IIIPro brakes "2-sets" at a time during Aliexpress sales, about 6 months apart, before I started having problems with the calipers. (Purchased 3 sets for bikes I built, and a spare set.)
Based on the initial reviews 1-1/2 to 2 years ago, they appeared to be a good modulated feeling lightweight great brake for the price. - They have performed very well overall, but appear to have a short seal life.
When I think about the bike that the calipers are failing on, it appears that on this bike, I do a lot of heavy duty long downhill braking, at high speeds, and this is where the calipers don't last. This is my hardtail that doubles as a bike camping/bikepacker. I am guessing that heat build-up in the calipers is doing something to the seals.
Since I started this thread, I wrote Bucklos explaining the situation, and to ask if they have a seal kit, versus me purchasing replacement seals based on digital caliper measurements and what I could find online for sale.
I've had my fair share of premature leaky seal failures on my XT calipers over the years, so having seal failures on the IIIPros isn't too big of a surprise.
What I would like to know is if IIIPro is using a crappy seal material, or if they have a design flaw in the calipers leading to short seal life. (When I look at the design of the caliper bore that the seals and pistons fit into, they visually look the same as all the other calipers I have rebuilt over the years.
of the leaky calipers. I see no signs of wear on the bores or pistons.
Did you ever get an answer from Bucklos or have you given up Tijoe?
I saw some of these being sold at the moment under the brand Speedone that had a ceramic looking piston in the caliper. Wonder if it would make a difference.
Are you still of the opinion they're not rebuildable with better seals?
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Did you ever get an answer from Bucklos or have you given up Tijoe?
I saw some of these being sold at the moment under the brand Speedone that had a ceramic looking piston in the caliper. Wonder if it would make a difference.
Are you still of the opinion they're not rebuildable with better seals?
I never hear back from Bucklos and didn't follow up again.
Interesting timing: I have a ride tomorrow on a very "chunky-rock" 9 mile gravel road climb tomorrow. (Actually today since it is already Sunday)
I decided to ride my slacker Ti Hardtail and pulled it down from where it has been hanging for about 6 months. I thought I could air up the tires, check shifting and be ready to ride. The Rear IIIPro brake had absolutely no pad/piston travel when the lever was pulled.
- I went through my normal brake bleeding process (that has always worked on XTs and other brakes), NOTHING! No matter what I tried I couldn't get any brake action.
- On this bike, the lines are external to the frame so I saidl screw-it and I removed the complete assembly off the bike.
- I set it up on a bench fixture I put together a while back.
(I removed the hose from the caliper and lever and checked the seals and the line fittings - good.)
(I removed the pads and replaced them with a spacer/brake bleed block and pushed the pistons all the way in. - They retraced Ok)
(With my brake bleed syringe I purged a lot of fluid out the line hole into a pan. No bubbles.
(Then when I started inspecting the lever assembly, I saw that there was no visible mineral oil in the exit to the brake line. I manually drip filled the line hole with fluid, then connected the brake hose.)
Then reconnected the caliper to the hose and made sure the fittings were tight.
With the lever assembly sitting level in my fixture, I removed the bleed/fill screw in installed a fill funnel then installed a syringe filled with mineral oil in the bleed port of the caliper.
I pushed a lot of mineral oil up into the lever reservoir. a lot of bubbles came out of the funnel.
I removed the funnel and pumped the lever. I started to see a bit of piston action and fluid being moved into the syringe. No air bubbles.
I took the lever assembly and "tapped it" in all sorts of directions while pumping the lever. (Bleed screw installed.)
I repeated pushing fluid through the syringe up into the funnel. A lot more bubbles!
I replaced the bleed plugs, again, and wow! Fantastic brake lever action and piston action.
I am beginning to believe that most of my problems are coming from not being able to bleed all of the air out of the master cylinder and reservoir when I bleed the assembly on the bike. Air must stay trapped somewhere in the reservoir/exit area that later on, migrates into the piston area of the master cylinder.
Regarding the one Caliper I installed new Hope 16mm seals in, it is still working well.
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Sounds like a lot of work.
Are you just running the trickstuff knock off levers? I wonder how all the other lever versions fair.
I was about to pull the trigger on this version today after reading that the new oliveless barb has leaking issues. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008278302009.html? but came across a set of TRPs on local market place for a good deal so went with them instead.
ZTTO have a trickstuff style lever with a bladder in it. Might be easier to bleed. Could also be another point of failure... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005990805088.html?
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Another problem...
My 20 mile ride today was an out and back gravel Forest service road ride. We started out riding up 5 mile long chunky rock climb with up to 15% sections, with an average of about 8% grade. At the top, we went down a gradual hill for a few miles, eventually meeting up with 2 other riders, to turn around and go back down.
As I wrote in my last post, I was able to get my rear IIIPro brake working again. Yeah! My front brake has been untouched since installation and has worked well for over 1000 hard miles, and has had one pad change. I started the ride out with great front brake stopping power. Then...
On my way down the mellow downhill, I was working my front brake some to slow down. Then after coasting at speed for a while before a corner, I pulled the front lever and... NO stopping power, front lever pulled all the way to the bars! I had to do a rapid pull many times to build enough pressure for the brake to even slow me down.
The main climb up was quite interesting descending with only a rear brake, and a front brake that added a little stopping power after I rapid-pumped the lever to build enough pressure to keep my speed in check.
In short, WTF!
this is becoming a love-hate relationship with these brakes (I have already looked for leaks and don't see any leaking fluid.)
If I could be paid for all of the time I have spent trying to keep these brakes operational, I could purchase the most expensive brakes on the market.
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On my way down the mellow downhill, I was working my front brake some to slow down. Then after coasting at speed for a while before a corner, I pulled the front lever and... NO stopping power, front lever pulled all the way to the bars! I had to do a rapid pull many times to build enough pressure for the brake to even slow me down.
The main climb up was quite interesting descending with only a rear brake, and a front brake that added a little stopping power after I rapid-pumped the lever to build enough pressure to keep my speed in check.
In short, WTF!
this is becoming a love-hate relationship with these brakes (I have already looked for leaks and don't see any leaking fluid.)
If I could be paid for all of the time I have spent trying to keep these brakes operational, I could purchase the most expensive brakes on the market.
That sounds scary, lucky you didn't have an accident....
Sounds like the levers are best avoided all together. Maybe use the hope seal refurbished callipers with some Shimano levers? Really does sound like they're just too much work though, which is a shame as they're so pretty..
Just get some mt420/520s and be done with it. You can get a set of mt4100/420s on ali for around the same or a bit less than the IIIPro brakes and they're supposed to be plenty powerful and not suffer from Shimanos wandering bite point issues.
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I see there is a new model called the R2X4 on the market. Do you think they addressed any of the issues?
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In general, for the past 10+ years I have been trying to avoid purchasing from Shimano, SRAM and Campy. I know that if I have to I can purchase Shimano, except I have typically preferred to not to spent my money on their products.
My brother, tried the IIIPro E4s. After about 6 month of usage he mailed them to me said they were garbage and now uses Magura brakes. He says he loves them.
Several years ago when I first purchased the IIIPro E4s, I thought they were fantastic! after 6 months of usage I loved my first set. I purchased 3 more sets for other bikes I was building. For a while, they all worked well. then they didn't. I have 3 sets in operation, and the 4th set has become "spares".
I feel invested in them and want to make them work.
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This morning I removed the soft levered front brake assembly and put it on the bench. Took some pictures of the caliper right off the bike, dirt and all, and looked for leaks. No leaks!
I want to note that the front brake assembly, as received, are factory assembled, and on this front brake, other than replacing the pads once, I have never exchanged mineral oil, or bled them. This particular front set of brakes has always worked/stopped really well. 1000+ hard miles. Then yesterday, they didn't work!
I clamped the lever assembly in place with the bleed port facing the top and level, removed the brake pads, cleaned the caliper and installed a brake block.
when I pulled on the lever it was still soft, and pulled all the way, I couldn't even see the pistons pushing out onto the brake block.
I removed the bleed port and the reservoir was full.
I very carefully and very slowly pulled the lever all the way until it stopped, about 2/3 of the way pulled, some fluid was flowing out the bleed port so I gradually released the lever, then all of the sudden, the rest of the fluid in the reservoir sucked back in and the reservoir looked almost empty. WTF! I added drops of mineral oil until the reservoir was full. (Quite a few drops) I put the bleed plug back in and pulled the lever a few times and I could see and feel some motion on the caliper pistons.
I pulled the lever numerous times, and the resistance on the lever gradually improved. I removed the bleed port and the reservoir took a few more drops of brake fluid. When I replace the bleed screw and pulled on the lever, it was felt firm and responsive. I put the pads back in and installed the assembly back on the bike.
Braking action feels right back to how it felt before yesterday's ride.
What is driving me crazy, is how can a closed hydraulic system, that has no leaks, and worked well for a long long time, all of the sudden stop working and develop a "void" inside such that pulling the lever doesn't move any fluid to the caliper.
And, that this happened without any warning over time, it suddenly stopped working*!
*Note: The 3 rear brake problems where the back brake stopped working, all started giving me symptoms before they stopped working gradually failing during the ride.
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I see there is a new model called the R2X4 on the market. Do you think they addressed any of the issues?
I don't think that IIIPro believes they have any problems or issues with the E4s. I complained to them once and they weren't very helpful at the time.
I am beginning to believe that there is some problem with the E4 levers that somehow develops a void or air somewhere in the lever hydraulics. Could be caused by "improper" bleeding, or lack of technique by me. Who knows. I haven't seen many complaints about the E4s other than me.
I am also beginning to form an opinion that for some reason on my bikes with rear brake internal hose routing, I am unable to get all of the air bubbles out of the system and this come back to haunt me later. Seems like when I bleed the brake off the bike such that I can freely move the lever assembly and calipers in all sorts of directions, I am able to get all the bubbles out.
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I don't think that IIIPro believes they have any problems or issues with the E4s. I complained to them once and they weren't very helpful at the time.
I am beginning to believe that there is some problem with the E4 levers that somehow develops a void or air somewhere in the lever hydraulics. Could be caused by "improper" bleeding, or lack of technique by me. Who knows. I haven't seen many complaints about the E4s other than me.
I am also beginning to form an opinion that for some reason on my bikes with rear brake internal hose routing, I am unable to get all of the air bubbles out of the system and this come back to haunt me later. Seems like when I bleed the brake off the bike such that I can freely move the lever assembly and calipers in all sorts of directions, I am able to get all the bubbles out.
The new R2X4 and R3X4 have different levers and seemingly the same calipers. I can't seem to find information on whether I can use BH90 brake hose, compression nuts, olives for them. They are advertising a reusable no olive system, but I am sure that will leak, I don't trust it.
Have you tried bleeding with the lever at a 45 degree angle? I know some brakes have to be angled rather than level, I can see how at certain angles air wouldn't be able to escape. But I don't understand how that air could suddenly pop up in the system, must be a really poorly designed master cylinder.
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The new R2X4 and R3X4 have different levers and seemingly the same calipers. I can't seem to find information on whether I can use BH90 brake hose, compression nuts, olives for them. They are advertising a reusable no olive system, but I am sure that will leak, I don't trust it.
Have you tried bleeding with the lever at a 45 degree angle? I know some brakes have to be angled rather than level, I can see how at certain angles air wouldn't be able to escape. But I don't understand how that air could suddenly pop up in the system, must be a really poorly designed master cylinder.
Wrote this in the other thread but.. I spent ages looking at them a few days ago and spotted a review on one of the Ali listings saying that the new barb leaks..
Shame, the levers look great.
I'm curious about the Frog Wake brakes now, similar looking callipers, with three different lever shapes I've seen. Still I'm not going to be the test subject as i'm sorted for brakes.
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Wrote this in the other thread but.. I spent ages looking at them a few days ago and spotted a review on one of the Ali listings saying that the new barb leaks..
Shame, the levers look great.
I'm curious about the Frog Wake brakes now, similar looking callipers, with three different lever shapes I've seen. Still I'm not going to be the test subject as i'm sorted for brakes.
I wouldn't trust that barb as far as I can throw it, but if you could replace it with BH90 and olives, then I would use them.
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I wouldn't trust that barb as far as I can throw it, but if you could replace it with BH90 and olives, then I would use them.
There is an older version of the perpendicular levers on Ali that has a banjo connection which goes into a short hose before connecting to a standard olive and barb. I was considering them but there's no feed back out there on them specifically and also the reservoir on the lever is really really small which put me off.
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Wrote this in the other thread but.. I spent ages looking at them a few days ago and spotted a review on one of the Ali listings saying that the new barb leaks..
Shame, the levers look great.
I'm curious about the Frog Wake brakes now, similar looking callipers, with three different lever shapes I've seen. Still I'm not going to be the test subject as i'm sorted for brakes.
I have not researched the newer generation bar units that you have posted. I feel stuck between a rock and failing brakes. I want to try to keep my existing E4s going for several reasons. 1. I only paid around $80 each for my E4s. The latest versions are almost 2X the price. Priced at $150 to $200, my expectations are a lot higher regarding the latest IIIPro brakes. I haven't seen any reviews stating that they are better than the E4s. 2. In general, I am protesting the USA tariffs, and ordering and/or purchasing only essential items. At the current Aliexpress prices, I would purchase Magura MT5s or MT7s and be done with it.
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I have not researched the newer generation bar units that you have posted. I feel stuck between a rock and failing brakes. I want to try to keep my existing E4s going for several reasons. 1. I only paid around $80 each for my E4s. The latest versions are almost 2X the price. Priced at $150 to $200, my expectations are a lot higher regarding the latest IIIPro brakes. I haven't seen any reviews stating that they are better than the E4s. 2. In general, I am protesting the USA tariffs, and ordering and/or purchasing only essential items. At the current Aliexpress prices, I would purchase Magura MT5s or MT7s and be done with it.
Yeah they are really not doing themselves any favours, if they can't compete on price and have questionable reliability then they're only going to sell them to naive people that don't do their home work.
But tbh I wouldn't buy them at any price if they're going to fail after a short amount of time. So many products on ali end up in that basket, things that either are so poorly designed and built they're unusable or they work briefly before breaking. It's part of the game i guess avoiding buying outright junk while finding a few gems.
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I scrutinized the specifications and pictures listed in an Aliexpress listing for the "Frog Wake" Brakes. A few thing stand out.
- The calipers use 18mm pistons. (Same as SRAM Maven. Perhaps good from a spare piston and seal replacement.)
- This is 11% greater piston area than the E4 calipers. This implies to me that the hydraulic design in the levers have to be different than the E-4s.)
- The levers on the Frog Wake are interchangeable left to right, and right to left.
- The fluid reservoir in the lever assembly appear to have 3 bleed ports. Top, bottom, and a perpendicular one. (This could be good to help bleeding, it also indicates to me that the lever assemblies could be easier to bleed than the E4s.
- The levers use a forged body, and the reservoir is located close to the bar mounting clamp, verses the E-4 lever body, they are on top of the piston actuator and the E4 body appears to be CNC machined..
Perhaps they are an improved design, and merit a higher price...
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I scrutinized the specifications and pictures listed in an Aliexpress listing for the "Frog Wake" Brakes. A few thing stand out.
- The calipers use 18mm pistons. (Same as SRAM Maven. Perhaps good from a spare piston and seal replacement.)
- This is 11% greater piston area than the E4 calipers. This implies to me that the hydraulic design in the levers have to be different than the E-4s.)
- The levers on the Frog Wake are interchangeable left to right, and right to left.
- The fluid reservoir in the lever assembly appear to have 3 bleed ports. Top, bottom, and a perpendicular one. (This could be good to help bleeding, it also indicates to me that the lever assemblies could be easier to bleed than the E4s.
- The levers use a forged body, and the reservoir is located close to the bar mounting clamp, verses the E-4 lever body, they are on top of the piston actuator and the E4 body appears to be CNC machined..
Perhaps they are an improved design, and merit a higher price...
Sounds promising. I've heard the Mavens suffer from wandering bite point though.
At a quick glance I've spotted three lever designs for them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009848849196.html?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006089156727.html?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009813182853.html?
Some funky paint jobs too.
They're pricy for Ali brakes, an MT420 set on Ali is nearly half the price for me.
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also newer generation?????
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009662432547.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller.8.3b3a1mOM1mOM4g&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.354490.0&scm_id=1007.40050.354490.0&scm-url=1007.40050.354490.0&pvid=60765e9b-8726-4fb9-965f-e3730601d010&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.354490.0,pvid:60765e9b-8726-4fb9-965f-e3730601d010,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238109%231935&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%228%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21CHF%21225.81%21108.39%21%21%211972.14%21946.64%21%40211b804117576219973506149e5e83%2112000049827072630%21rec%21CH%212792483145%21XZ%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29919%3Bd%3A1d5a640a%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005009662432547%7C_p_origin_prod%3A
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I have not researched the newer generation bar units that you have posted. I feel stuck between a rock and failing brakes. I want to try to keep my existing E4s going for several reasons. 1. I only paid around $80 each for my E4s. The latest versions are almost 2X the price. Priced at $150 to $200, my expectations are a lot higher regarding the latest IIIPro brakes. I haven't seen any reviews stating that they are better than the E4s. 2. In general, I am protesting the USA tariffs, and ordering and/or purchasing only essential items. At the current Aliexpress prices, I would purchase Magura MT5s or MT7s and be done with it.
Came across this today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUdk6ZBzEZQ
He mentions the same issue you have had. One brake pulling to the bar out of the box. He also seems to think they're not really powerful enough to be used by a skilled rider on a proper enduro bike.
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I currently have these at home
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009416537332.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.1b601db8tRsNbu&algo_pvid=195d9343-38e2-4720-a3b8-e3dc5cab091b&algo_exp_id=195d9343-38e2-4720-a3b8-e3dc5cab091b-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2276%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21EUR%21245.19%21111.69%21%21%211998.29%21910.27%21%40211b81a317576671611315906e1df9%2112000049099304885%21sea%21DE%210%21ABX%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29910%3Bd%3A469ac7ab%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895%3BpisId%3A5000000174220118&curPageLogUid=WHUc5RyJ78mr&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005009416537332%7C_p_origin_prod%3A#nav-specification
New design, new lever and a reusable hose connection thing. Feels allright but the rest of the bike is not finished yet so no long term experience.
I have some Speedone versions of the E4 on one of my Trial bikes and they work allright for over a year now. Not as strong as a 4-Piston Shimano XT but not that far of. Adjustment screws on the lever are very difficult to turn tough.
I tried the ZTTO "TEAM" brake but its really bad. Not strong enough for trials riding. On a Mountainbike it starts to loose pressure very fast to a point wheres its better to brake with your feet or jump of the bike. Dont recommend them at all very bad.
They also started to leak after about 3 rides. Bleeding is also very difficult even tough they have a reservoir like a hope brake. Tried to fill them with a water/glycol mixture for fun wich worked a little better but still a very bad brake.
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I currently have these at home
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009416537332.html?
New design, new lever and a reusable hose connection thing. Feels allright but the rest of the bike is not finished yet so no long term experience.
I have some Speedone versions of the E4 on one of my Trial bikes and they work allright for over a year now. Not as strong as a 4-Piston Shimano XT but not that far of. Adjustment screws on the lever are very difficult to turn tough.
I tried the ZTTO "TEAM" brake but its really bad. Not strong enough for trials riding. On a Mountainbike it starts to loose pressure very fast to a point wheres its better to brake with your feet or jump of the bike. Dont recommend them at all very bad.
They also started to leak after about 3 rides. Bleeding is also very difficult even tough they have a reservoir like a hope brake. Tried to fill them with a water/glycol mixture for fun wich worked a little better but still a very bad brake.
Would be keen to hear any short or long term impressions once you've been using them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005990805088.html?
These right?
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Would be keen to hear any short or long term impressions once you've been using them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005990805088.html?
These right?
I´ll update here once i got to use them. Got a few brakes to compare to:
Hope Tech 4 V4, Shimano XT 4-Piston, Magura MT5 and MT7, Hayes Dominion, Speedone E4, ZTTO Team.
The quick disconnect on the lever seems to be holding the pressure from playing around with the brake.. we`ll see how long it'll hold up in bikeparks
And yes, those are the ZTTO Team, brakes. I had 2 Sets of them and all 4 Brakes are somehow broken. 1 Cant turn the lever adjust but otherwise still working. the other 3 are all leaking on the lever or the caliper.
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Looking forward to hearing how they work out. From all of the bad luck people are having with these I wouldn't trust them, personally. Hoping these are better!
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I´ll update here once i got to use them. Got a few brakes to compare to:
Hope Tech 4 V4, Shimano XT 4-Piston, Magura MT5 and MT7, Hayes Dominion, Speedone E4, ZTTO Team.
The quick disconnect on the lever seems to be holding the pressure from playing around with the brake.. we`ll see how long it'll hold up in bikeparks
And yes, those are the ZTTO Team, brakes. I had 2 Sets of them and all 4 Brakes are somehow broken. 1 Cant turn the lever adjust but otherwise still working. the other 3 are all leaking on the lever or the caliper.
Do the Speedone versions have ceramic pistons?? I saw a white piston in their promo shots.
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Do the Speedone versions have ceramic pistons?? I saw a white piston in their promo shots.
Seems to me from my look through the attached listing, the silver shown as a piston area is just part of a 3D CAD model. None of the actual pictures show the pistons. The real photos of the calipers have the pads installed.
This "Speedone" version of these brakes appear to be a renamed E4 with the second bleed port added to the calipers.
(Perhaps the E4s are getting a bad reputation and someone is rebranding them to try to sell more of them.)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808098017085.html
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Seems to me from my look through the attached listing, the silver shown as a piston area is just part of a 3D CAD model. None of the actual pictures show the pistons. The real photos of the calipers have the pads installed.
This "Speedone" version of these brakes appear to be a renamed E4 with the second bleed port added to the calipers.
(Perhaps the E4s are getting a bad reputation and someone is rebranding them to try to sell more of them.)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808098017085.html
I think i've seen these sold under at least four brands if not more. All the usual suspects on Ali, Bucklos, ZTTO, Ryet etc.
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I did a little research today and took apart one of my E4 levers and took a few images.
- I am impressed with how good of quality and how good the CNC machining of the housing looks.
- The internals match up well with generic cross sections of lever hydraulic cross sections one can find on the web. (No weird or unique design features. - About what I expected to find.)
I believe that I might have discovered why the hydraulic assembly could be difficult to get all of the bubbles out.
In the second and third attached images, I focused on what appears to be almost a bladder, or some sort of flexible pressure equalization/control insert. When I took my assembly apart, the indented area of the insert was facing downward. I think that this indentation, when oriented horizontally, could trap air and not allow the air to escape. These bubbles could relocate from where they are trapped into another area of the reservoir when the bike is oriented in a direction that the bubbles would move to another area in the reservoir. If the air bubble migrates to the small hole drilled between the reservoir and piston assembly, then air could directly be sucked into the piston area. (Perhaps why, a good working brake would get a spongy lever if the bike is hung on a wall, or flipped upside down for a period of time.) This could also help explain when I bleed the brake assembly off the bike versus on the bike, I was able to get a firm feel on the lever very quickly becasue I was rotating the assembly 360 degrees as I pumped the lever.
- This may be reaching a bit, but to me it is one possible explanation.
When I reinstalled the bladder thingy, I rotated it so that the indentations are vertically oriented. When I eventually try to put this lever assembly back in service, I'll find out this works, or not.
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If you find a fix i'd be tempted to buy a set. Still love the way these look. The silver looks great and the new orange and grey version is also appealing.
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Thanks a lot for your research! In a way, it would be a bit of a silver lining for these to be bad due to an engineering issue and not production issues.
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Do the Speedone versions have ceramic pistons?? I saw a white piston in their promo shots.
It looks like the Speedone Soldier 2 (IIIPro E4) actually has ceramic pistons.
At least they look and feel like ceramic. The new IIIPro R2X4 has the exact same caliper with the same pistons.
As i said, did not have any problems with those and ive been using them for a year on a trials bike so no light use but also not getting very warm. And i also use ZTTO 2.3mm discs (wich i highly recommend) so i guess heat management is no issue for me. Dont know if bikepark or ebike use may be different.
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So i got to use the R2X4 brakes today. Using the included finned brake pads which are probably semi-metallic. After a short brake-in-period they developed massiv power.
Usually i run 203mm Rotors but i dont think i need them with these brakes as they are simply very powerful so i'll stick to the 180mm that where included. The best comparison would probably be Magura MT5. Both in power and modulation.
Tough the IIIPro levers feel better and don't have as much resistance. The lever is very smooth but i had no issues with and without gloves. The IIIPro E4 levers are not even close i terms of comfort.
I will be using them until they fail, take them to some bikeparks check for thermal issues with a thermal camera. Not very scientific but i cooked some magura brakes before which was fun.
L-Twoo TX shifting was a bad choice tough but i'll write something about that in another post once i find out why its sucks so much.
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It appears, and has been confirmed by you guys, that the latest versions of what was the E4 calipers have ceramic pistons in them. The R2X4 and the Speedone Soldier 2 both have ceramic pistons. I wrote the "Bolany Store" and the confirmed that they are indeed ceramic on the Speedone Soldier. I asked if they have ceramic piston rebuild kits. or even seals, and they responded, No seal or piston kits available. (This will eventually become an issue.)
I scrutinized the caliper images posted in the R2X4 brakes in the listing below. Looking closely at one of my E4 calipers, compared to the caliper shown in the R2X4 calipers, the R2X4 caliper machined bodies appear to be the same as the 2nd gen E4s that added the second bleed port. The spacing of the pistons and diameter appear to be the same. (16mm pistons.) This would imply to me that if the new R2X4s actually have more braking force, it has to be a change in the lever piston assembly. (Calipers are the same, tubing is the same, therefore something in the levers must create a greater or more responsive pressure to move the pistons.)
When I find the time, I think I will map out all of the variations of the Buckalos/IIIPro 4-piston caliper and associated levers. There appears to be a lot of mix and matching going on between different levers and basically slight variations in their calipers.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809632024344.html
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I was thinking of getting the 4 piston ZRace XG4 calipers, but it seems more work to maintain them.
The 2 piston Zrace XG pistons and seals can be easily upgraded to ceramic and serviced. I'm better off just running bigger disc rotors for more stopping force.
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Since my last posting, instead of out riding on this beautiful Saturday, I compiled all of the Bucklos IIIPro brake variations I could find. Attached are 2 images that show the list of models and brands, and a picture showing all of the different levers types.
My top 3 to look at are the; R2X4, R3X4 and the Frog Wake, These pique my interests the most for eventual replacement of the IIIPro levers.
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I guess i found another version of this brake.
Ryet Nexus
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009200785644.html?spm=a2g0o.home.pcJustForYou.53.22e77a8bjuAjyc&gps-id=pcJustForYou&scm=1007.13562.416251.0&scm_id=1007.13562.416251.0&scm-url=1007.13562.416251.0&pvid=eb7ed1c6-6434-4602-9998-65e37ebeb3e4&_t=gps-id:pcJustForYou,scm-url:1007.13562.416251.0,pvid:eb7ed1c6-6434-4602-9998-65e37ebeb3e4,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238108%231977&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%224%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%223562%22%2C%22fromPage%22%3A%22recommend%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21EUR%21115.73%21110.99%21%21%21133.12%21127.67%21%40211b612817584686752535176ec3e8%2112000048278923547%21rec%21DE%212494026036%21XZ%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29919%3Bd%3Aeb109e2b%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895&utparam-url=scene%3ApcJustForYou%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005009200785644%7C_p_origin_prod%3A#nav-specification
They say 4x16mm Stainless Steel + Ceramic Piston? Theres alot of information in the description.
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I guess i found another version of this brake.
Ryet Nexus
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009200785644.html
They say 4x16mm Stainless Steel + Ceramic Piston? There is a lot of information in the description.
Good find. I added them to my list. Continuing down the the Ryet Rabbit hole, I searched under "Ryet Brakes" and they have another variation/copy of the R2X4 levers that they call the M4s.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809591481559.html
One would think that with all these variations of the same brake product line that these would be the best brakes out there considering al the rebranding going on on their basic designs.
Ryet is associated with Lexon, and Sroad, so I presume Lexon wants their own line of brakes to sell with their wheels and frames.
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Kinda interesting to have more color options tough the ryet version seems to be alot more expensive than the R2X4.
I guess if you need alot of power the radial levers of the R2X4 are the best choice. I would not trust them with my life but i'm stupid enough to try anyways. I'm not really heavy but i ride very bad so i'll report back when anything weird happens!
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So i got to use the R2X4 brakes today. Using the included finned brake pads which are probably semi-metallic. After a short brake-in-period they developed massiv power.
Usually i run 203mm Rotors but i dont think i need them with these brakes as they are simply very powerful so i'll stick to the 180mm that where included. The best comparison would probably be Magura MT5. Both in power and modulation.
Tough the IIIPro levers feel better and don't have as much resistance. The lever is very smooth but i had no issues with and without gloves. The IIIPro E4 levers are not even close i terms of comfort.
I will be using them until they fail, take them to some bikeparks check for thermal issues with a thermal camera. Not very scientific but i cooked some magura brakes before which was fun.
L-Twoo TX shifting was a bad choice tough but i'll write something about that in another post once i find out why its sucks so much.
Any leaks from the new barb?
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Working very well. To be honest, I did not expect that since i'm spoiled by Hope Tech 4 V4's.
Would I trust them with working in the Alps? No not really. Alot of Brakes have failed that test. Magura MT7 overheated. Shimano 4-Piston XT Overheated and lost pressure. Magura MT5 burned the disc. Got a thermal image of 230°c on the disc.
But for my bike i take to the local trails almost daily they are very nice. They feel nice, modulate well and the stopping power is more than enough.
I will definetly post an update here if i find any problems.
A friend of mine is probably going to buy them aswell.
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Well...
Yesterday, I finished up my 2.5 day bike-camping trip up in BC Canada. About 15K up/down in 130 miles on my 53#/24kg loaded rig.
Guess what?
15 miles from the finish, my rear IIIPro brake failed. (Not again!!!) At least my front kept braking. Luckily I didn't encounter any more downhill sand filled trail, but there were numerous 10+% singletrack downs and drops where it was a challenge only having a front brake.
Not again! This time, it appears to be a leak out of the hose connection or the line failed. I will investigate soon.
This is less than 200 miles of riding since my last problem.
Note: I am attempting to use the IIIPro brakes on severe descents, where the brakes have to repeatedly stop over 250 pounds of mass. These suckers really should do the job... OR NOT!
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L-Twoo TX shifting was a bad choice tough but i'll write something about that in another post once i find out why its sucks so much.
Not to go off topic but I put LTWOO T9 on my bike and am extremely happy with it. It feels even better than my Shimano GRX 810 on my gravel bike, although it is a bit difficult to compare drop bar groupsets to mtb groupsets.
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I worked on the IIIpro this morning. I appears that a leak developed around the nut/olive.
- When I removed the nut to the rear caliper, the nut was goot-n-tight.
- I visually inspected the olive, and it didn't appear to have any compression marks on it at an odd angle, or any gouges in the sealing surfaces. All I could see were nice even polishing and a very slight groove compressed in concentric circles around the olive on each side.
- I installed the nut and tightened it down about as much as I dare, before causing damage to the threads.
- After drawing a copious amount of fluid through the hose out of the caliper bleed port, I initially had no pad motion until I spent 10 to 15 minutes working bubbles out of the bleed port in the lever assembly.
The rear brake is back to normal. Not sure why the olive and nut area leaked.
Perhaps prolonged heating of the caliper on many long descents?
Time will tell. I'll be riding the bike tomorrow, on regular gravel roads without any steep higher-speed descents, and without any camping gear loaded onto the bike. The bike will be down to its 22lb base weight, +water. (Versus my 53lb bike camping loaded weight.)
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Time will tell. I'll be riding the bike tomorrow, on regular gravel roads without any steep higher-speed descents, and without any camping gear loaded onto the bike. The bike will be down to its 22lb base weight, +water. (Versus my 53lb bike camping loaded weight.)
How are they getting on? I wanted to ask, do they handle a gravity bleed ok or do they need more elaborate techniques with syringes?
I found a good 11.11 price for the Zrace version of the R2X4, which after spending the afternoon trying to get a TRP Slate calliper with stubborn sticky pistons to function properly is looking tempting.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009315025990.html
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How are they getting on? I wanted to ask, do they handle a gravity bleed ok or do they need more elaborate techniques with syringes?
I found a good 11.11 price for the Zrace version of the R2X4, which after spending the afternoon trying to get a TRP Slate calliper with stubborn sticky pistons to function properly is looking tempting.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009315025990.html
On my 29er hardtail, the rear brake is still marginal, at best. I recently rode my full suspension 29er that has the IIIPros E4s installed and those brakes work as one would expect.
I have a IIIPro brake lever and E4 caliper taken apart. I have measured and examined the E4 caliper apart, and they appear to be very very close in design to the Hope Tech E3 calipers. I can't see anything in the calipers that would lead to poor stopping power, other than air bubbles that somehow one can't easily purge. The IIIpro Lever, could be the problem. I haven't had time to measure and calculate the reservoir size compared to the amount of fluid that is required in the hydraulic piston area of the lever.
I am looking into purchasing either Magura or Hope brakes for the bike I keep having braking problems with.
My gut feel (Not based on real data yet) is that the IIIPro lever is where my rear brake problem is coming from. To date, I haven't figured out anything definitive.
Above being written, Perhaps the lever hydraulic and reservoir design of the Zrace, or R2X4 or Frog Wake is better than the IIIPro levers. Since I haven't purchased this style of brake lever assembly, I can't comment or recommend on the Zrace design.
(Perhaps someone is running one of these and can start a new thread about those specific brakes.)
I made the decision to purchase different brakes for my 29er Carbon hardtail that I use for my extreme terrain Bikepacking events. I will keep the IIIPros on 2 of my lesser-ridden bikes until they exhibit the same problems.
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On my 29er hardtail, the rear brake is still marginal, at best. I recently rode my full suspension 29er that has the IIIPros E4s installed and those brakes work as one would expect.
I have a IIIPro brake lever and E4 caliper taken apart. I have measured and examined the E4 caliper apart, and they appear to be very very close in design to the Hope Tech E3 calipers. I can't see anything in the calipers that would lead to poor stopping power, other than air bubbles that somehow one can't easily purge. The IIIpro Lever, could be the problem. I haven't had time to measure and calculate the reservoir size compared to the amount of fluid that is required in the hydraulic piston area of the lever.
I am looking into purchasing either Magura or Hope brakes for the bike I keep having braking problems with.
My gut feel (Not based on real data yet) is that the IIIPro lever is where my rear brake problem is coming from. To date, I haven't figured out anything definitive.
Above being written, Perhaps the lever hydraulic and reservoir design of the Zrace, or R2X4 or Frog Wake is better than the IIIPro levers. Since I haven't purchased this style of brake lever assembly, I can't comment or recommend on the Zrace design.
(Perhaps someone is running one of these and can start a new thread about those specific brakes.)
I made the decision to purchase different brakes for my 29er Carbon hardtail that I use for my extreme terrain Bikepacking events. I will keep the IIIPros on 2 of my lesser-ridden bikes until they exhibit the same problems.
I was flipflopping again. Almost ready to get them, then saw another video with a chap saying they're great except they don't handle heat and long descents well... so ho humm back to maybe just getting some mt520s as the TRP slates i picked up are being finnicky.
Have you looked at Lewis brakes? They seem to review well and if i was building a big bike they're what I'd put on it. As it is my use case is ebike commuting and light trails... pretty much any functional brake would work.
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I was flipflopping again. Almost ready to get them, then saw another video with a chap saying they're great except they don't handle heat and long descents well... so ho humm back to maybe just getting some mt520s as the TRP slates i picked up are being finnicky.
Have you looked at Lewis brakes? They seem to review well and if i was building a big bike they're what I'd put on it. As it is my use case is ebike commuting and light trails... pretty much any functional brake would work.
As you know, there is a Lewis thread. I thought about them, but after the US tariffs were added, My focus shifted to Magura and Hope Tech. I can tolerate the IIIPro problems on my other bikes, but I really need the bike I use for bikepacking to have fantastic stopping power, predictable initial bite, modulation, and reliability.
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As you know, there is a Lewis thread. I thought about them, but after the US tariffs were added, My focus shifted to Magura and Hope Tech. I can tolerate the IIIPro problems on my other bikes, but I really need the bike I use for bikepacking to have fantastic stopping power, predictable initial bite, modulation, and reliability.
Understandable.
I haven't seen that thread actually. Will have a look.
I run a Shigura MT5 front brake on my enduro hard tail, it's been fairly trouble free, though i barely ride that bike.
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Groan. (Sad to see money flowing out of my pockets again) I couldn't resist. I ordered a set of the "Frog Wake" brakes this morning. I ran across a seller selling them for $10 less than all the others, so with coupons, and coins I snagged them for $112.32 USD.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809773680151.html
I think I will start a new thread once I get them installed on one of my bikes. My plan is still to purchase Hope tech brakes, or Magura on sale, closer to Black Friday.
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Groan. (Sad to see money flowing out of my pockets again) I couldn't resist. I ordered a set of the "Frog Wake" brakes this morning. I ran across a seller selling them for $10 less than all the others, so with coupons, and coins I snagged them for $112.32 USD.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809773680151.html
I think I will start a new thread once I get them installed on one of my bikes. My plan is still to purchase Hope tech brakes, or Magura on sale, closer to Black Friday.
Hahaha keen to hear how they are.
I nearly bought the Zrace version of the R2X4 or whatever it's called. They were down at $115nzd when 11.11 started which was very tempting. Resisted and instead spent 11 hours rebuilding, bleeding and lubeing my trp slates which have leaking, lazy pistons and no seals available. Managed to get one calliper possibly working but I'd feel like throwing them in the ocean after sinking this much time into them. If this fails i'm tossing the slate callipers and attaching some shimano deore 6120 callipers which are really cheap on ali.
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... I ordered a set of the "Frog Wake" brakes this morning...
I was just about to order a pair, and thought I would look around here first 8)
Did you get them already ? Even if not installed, any first impressions to share ?
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I was just about to order a pair, and thought I would look around here first 8)
Did you get them already ? Even if not installed, any first impressions to share ?
Tracking states they cleared custom on the 21st. Probably 4 to 5 days from being delivered to me. (+Thanksgivings, who knows when they will arrive.)
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My frog Wake brakes arrived today. I started a new thread and wrote my initial impressions and added pictures.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6752.0.html
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Any suggestions on who’s makes the lightest two piston brakeset? Anything under 400g total for front and rear?
Cheers