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Re: Groupset News
Quote from: RDY on January 07, 2023, 12:14:25 PM
Anyone tried their hydraulic brifters with Shimano / Magura / Campag calipers yet?

The Onirii XR calipers work on both L-TWOO and ST-R785 brifters, so it should be fine

EDIT: RX brifters w/ BR-R785 calipers
January 07, 2023, 12:39:51 PM 		1
Re: 2022 - Rotor recommendations?
Quote from: frnchy on September 16, 2022, 05:01:59 PM
Very nice... hope they're thicker than the 1.6mm claimed width of the previous design

They should be on the market soon as the 2nd generation CD-02 (CL, 103g) & CD-03 (6-bolt, 94g). 1.8mm thick and a stronger spider so hopefully they'll be more durable than the 1st gen.
January 15, 2023, 03:48:20 AM 		2
Re: Groupset News Sensah electronic rim levers
February 07, 2023, 01:20:11 AM 		8
Re: Groupset News
Quote from: RDY on February 07, 2023, 09:11:42 AM
That looks pretty rough ... hopefully proto.

I don't think they'll invest in the tooling for a new Rim hood shape. The electronic rim levers are most likely just going to be an adapted version of the existing mechanical one.

The test bike pictured appears to be 1x with only the right lever electronic and the left mechanical. This suggests that the shifting logic will be FSA K-Force WE-style with a rocker switch.
February 08, 2023, 12:16:46 PM 		1
Re: Groupset News Wheel Top EDS TX prototype & potential hydraulic caliper




Wheel Top EDS TX Rim lever, FD & RD weights (incl. batteries)




future Sensah mechanical RD prototype



L-TWOO eRX FD & RD weights
February 22, 2023, 12:40:47 PM 		9
Re: 2022 - Rotor recommendations?
Quote from: avocadobike on February 25, 2023, 03:02:30 PM
These look exactly the same as the Kactus rotors, I purchased one to try on my Ti bike, not amazing but it’s not too bad either.

Any chance you can cancel the order? Not sure why Kactus are still selling it but Onirii already recalled that model for spider failures and uneven pad wear.
February 26, 2023, 03:19:24 AM 		2
Re: Groupset News expect L-TWOO eRX to be launched fairly soon

Projected pricing is 4500RMB for the levers, callipers and derailleurs. Wheel Top EDS TX should cost considerably less, quoted to start at the high 2xxx range for Rim brake and low 3xxx range for Disc brake in standard weight guises. Wheel Top is also expected to offer higher end 'ultra light' versions of their groupset to compete with eRX.

pre-production pics
March 13, 2023, 01:26:31 AM 		12
Re: Groupset News The official press conference wrapped up yesterday and media first impressions are trickling in

Weights
Left & right levers
L-TWOO quoted weight: 225g (each)
Biketo measured weight: 445.1g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 223.1g (left), 222g (right)

FD
L-TWOO quoted weight: 150g
Biketo measured weight: 139.3g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 139.1g

RD
L-TWOO quoted weight: 270g
Biketo measured weight: 275.6g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 275.7g

Seatpost battery & cables
L-TWOO quoted weight: 62g (battery only)
Biketo measured weight: 85.1g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 85.2g


Pricing
Big surprise is that there is a 3500RMB eR9 Alloy to sit below the 4500RMB eRX Carbon. Disregard their mechanical naming convention because both are 12s.


It's unclear how much heavier eR9 will be.

Testimonials
I'll briefly summarise this vlog from a LBS proprietor who was invited to the launch:
  • He mentions that the derailleurs are not the only determinant of shifting quality. The supplied chainring, chain and cassette on the Java test bikes are not the best so it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison with the established brands
  • FD sucks. He says that it feels like 'last gen SRAM' (not sure if he's referring to RED eTap A1 11s or Force AXS D1 here) where shifting under load especially uphill is difficult
  • RD is fine and shifts like 'last gen Shimano' (R8070?) but has chain slap issues (not enough tension?)
  • Lever buttons feel like a mouse click and aren't nearly tactile enough. Very mushy like SRAM pre-Rival/Force AXS D2.
  • Due to how the inner shift button is half embedded into the leading edge of the brake lever, riding over bumps and uneven surfaces results in frequent accidental shifts
  • You can see Joe Whittingham from China Cycling at 2:55 so you can look forward to his first impressions video
  • He shifts up and down the entire cassette range at 3:45 and 4:05
  • He says that the braking feels improved from the mechanical RX hydraulic he tried before

Function
I was mistaken by the shifting logic. As opposed to being SRAM style with a single button on either side, it's actually Shimano style with 2 buttons on each lever but laid out the other way around. Shifting layouts and derailleur adjustments are configurable in-app.
Left lever: Inner textured button shifts to big ring, outer smooth button shifts to small ring
Right lever: Inner textured button shifts to a smaller cog, outer smooth button shifts to a larger cog


Quote from: kbike on March 13, 2023, 08:41:59 AM
Direct mount hanger is a option for the rd. I can't figure out where a power cable goes for either derailleur. How do you charge the battery(s) what kind of battery.
We actually don't know if it's DM hanger capable until someone tries installing it. The callipers for example appeared to be PM at first but they're actually their own proprietary thing with different dimensions to work around patents.

The levers are semi-wireless and powered by CR2032 batteries while the FD and RD are powered by an 800mAh seatpost battery (for reference, BT-DN300 is 500mAh, EPS V3 is 720mAh and K-Force WE is 1100mAh). Charging is handled by a magnetic connector at the backside of the RD facing NDS.


Quote from: jonathanf2 on March 16, 2023, 09:48:00 AM
Does that mean this hanger will be used for both gravel & road with a fairly big cassette clearance?
RD max capacity is still rated at 32T as opposed to the industry standard 34T. I'm sure that while an 11-34T cassette could fit, a 36T like CS-HG710-12 certainly wouldn't.

Personal thoughts
Even though they are the best 'put together' of the 3 upstart groupset manufacturers, it is still painfully obvious that this is a small operation prone to amateur mistakes. For example, L-TWOO's press conference presentation deck and website marketing material for this launch was riddled with typos and inaccuracies. They incorrectly spelled the word for brifter, the battery capacity was wrongly labelled at 850mAh and the eR9 was originally listed as 11s leading some to believe that 12s function would be software locked for eRX only.

And if you thought that getting your hands on a groupset abroad is difficult, local distribution isn't much better. For instance, they decided to setup a new WeChat account to handle all eRX direct pre-sales (unbelievably inane imo) which would quickly be disabled for overactivity because they used a personal account as opposed to an enterprise account. Lastly, they decided to respond to people who felt that the 4500RMB pricetag was too steep by joking that it was a more of a 'you' problem (1:55) [EDIT: now cut from the video...I guess they aren't that tone deaf] so don't expect price cuts any time soon. However, Chinese Shimano resellers have already responded by slashing the price of R7170 'small kits' so we may well see a price war unfold in the future.

Misc
L-TWOO has also started supplying Hydraulic R7 Alloy 10s to OEMs
March 16, 2023, 10:49:40 AM 		13
Re: Groupset News
Quote from: kbike on March 16, 2023, 02:13:00 PM
Wow a lot of info thanks stiffweenies.

Jonathan think I replied to your yt comment before seeing all the updated info.  So I'm probably wrong with that comment.


As for the groupset. I've jumped on the mechanical groupsets fast and even frames. This is going to be a huge wait and see.  Simply for after purchase support will be huge.  I can rig or modify with mechanical but with electronic not as simple.  Most issues would fall in the wait for support and replacement.  I stopped talking about the rx cause I felt like I was r&d or support. They want to offer products with no guidance. Really feels like you only get help  when someone else figures it out for them.  To be fair it's not only l twoo the China products with crap support isn't going to fly with me anymore.

til I see consistent consumer happiness I cannot jump on more expensive products.  I see a bunch of high priced products but I just can't for now.

Good call. There is absolutely a gamble in playing this game and I wouldn't recommend anyone who simply wants something that 'just works' become a guinea pig for these small companies, especially when international customers have to pay a markup on top of navigating language barriers and awful customer support.

L-TWOO and others have the mentality that they can just fix problems on the fly without taking a reputational hit which is just a recipe for disaster as we've seen from the Seka/Cycling100 debacle. The sad thing is that they'll only consider doing something about it when a big influencer calls them out.
March 16, 2023, 02:55:58 PM 		3
Re: Groupset News Utter cringe aside, I suspect that Sergey is the same guy pictured in this article from Nov '18.

Crazy to consider how 4.5 years ago, the company was showing their first road groupset in the R7 10s at Taipei Cycle '18. Back then, L-TWOO was just coasting along in a secondary position behind Sensah. It was only when the company received Series B financing from Hillhouse in Feb '21 and Series C financing from SCGC in May '22 that R&D investment kicked into high gear. Hopefully this VC money gravy train doesn't run out anytime soon because the alternative is stagnation like Sensah who've seemingly raised no money since Dec '18.
March 17, 2023, 04:25:56 PM 		6