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Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? The assumption to justify part of Specialized's SL8 pricing is that the higher grade carbon they use is stronger, stiffer, while also being lighter than something like T800. And there's consideration to the carbon layout to provide a responsive yet agreeable riding experience.

I would be satisfied with this X68 if at the very least it wasn't a noodle overall to ride. I'm just not sure how TanTan would achieve a decent level of stiffness at the advertised weight and price point. The frame weight similar to the real SL8 Pro.

If TanTan can come even 70% close to the SL8 in terms of riding dynamics (stiff head tube, compliant seat stays and BB, fantastic crosswind stability) then it's probably a solid value. On paper.
January 14, 2025, 04:34:06 PM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes?
Quote from: patliean1 on January 14, 2025, 04:34:06 PM
The assumption to justify part of Specialized's SL8 pricing is that the higher grade carbon they use is stronger, stiffer, while also being lighter than something like T800.

Where is the claim the sworks is stronger? afaik, it's the opposite, it's more fragile. there are plenty of photos of sworks from pros snapped in half, pinarello used to make a super light version of a frame that dealers refused to sell to clients because they snapped like matches, which is no issue if you're a pro, but not sustainable as a bike shop selling to normal riders. And the highest grades of carbon fibers are the most brittle. It's why historically the high modulus version of frames are more fragile: they push the envelope on how much fiber to use, but also, the portion of fiber that's high modulus / super fancy itself is much more fragile / brittle. There are also countless stories of people cracking their sworks frame in the trunk of the car, whereas i've never heard that with frames for mere mortals.
I understand that T700 is still the backbone of frames & wheels because without it, components would snap too easy. But it's not advertised because it sounds ghetto.
Which in turn means that the difference in materials cost between a 5000$ frame and a 300$ one is not on 100% of the fibers, but much less than that (assuming a good chunk is still T700/T800).

Caveat: i've never hold a sheet of pre preg in my life, & idk what i'm talking about.
January 15, 2025, 06:50:08 AM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? I definitely need to do a deep dive research on carbon fiber and educate myself better...

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBkmr8loXYn/?img_index=1

TanTan shows a size 52 matte black weighing 836g. My Tarmac L8 Pro in a size 56 weighs 827g. Now let's say a size 56 TanTan x68 comes in at 900g for comparison sake. How are they able to produce a comparable weight with less fragile (ie: stronger) carbon? And at a $600 price point? Is the difference between a $600 frame versus $3500 all in the marketing, engineering, tooling, staff, and frame size-specific layup?

ICAN's FL1 frame (Aethos lookalike) comes in at 783g unpainted in a size 54. No aero design details so less carbon needed, but obviously the Chinese brands are capable of making lightweight frames. My Winspace SLC3 weighs 829g. I'm just curious why we don't see more of these brands offering deep sub-1000g frames. Most of them seem to fall between 1050g to 1200g.

In the past I've said my theory as to why Chinese frames are heavier is because it's a built-in insurance policy by making the frames, in theory, more robust. But why would they need to do this if an 836g frame is strong enough without cutting corners?

Obviously I like what TanTan is doing by offering such a wide variety of frames across different disciplines. So I'm not trying to scare anyone away from this particular frame. I really want one myself. My curiosity lies in TanTan's ability to offer this frame at such stellar specs and price as a reputable factory. With minimal compromise.
January 15, 2025, 09:26:29 AM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? Should it be a surprise that these manufacturers are able to offer these replica frames at such a low price? We do know that the industry in Xiamen is tight knit. People move from factory to factory so intellectual property can leak, people can be bribed, etc.. If they have the cad files and layup schedule of a particular frameset, I don't think it would be that difficult to offer such as you see now. All that upcharge the big brands levy is to recoup all the sunk costs into research, design and marketing. Those that offer these framesets incur hardly much of that.

I have one of these replicas (not seraph) and I couldn't believe how good they are. I'm 190lbs and have beat the sh*t out of it with zero issues. It's currently cold as heck here but as soon as it warms up, me and my buddy with a real S-works both size 52 will do a test ride. Unfortunately, parts are not identical but I wouldn't be surprised if the ride is very similar.
January 15, 2025, 05:39:12 PM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? Finally received my frame, size 54 in matte black. Can't speak for quality as this is my first brand new disc build, but everything looks the par. I did notice the common fork and headset area gap, as well as a slight gap on the top side, between the spacers and headset.

I'll be posting my build list with weights once the bike is built up, should be pretty close to 6.9kg.
January 16, 2025, 12:08:10 PM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? Not enough photos in here  >:(
January 23, 2025, 09:34:28 AM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? YES WE NEED MORE PHOTOS!!!
January 23, 2025, 09:51:51 AM 		1
Re: Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes? Hi, I'm sending you photos and a video of the tantan sl8
January 24, 2025, 09:21:50 AM 		1
Re: Frame req? (Aero, dropped SS, high stack, short reach) This would be our newest frameset and handlebar. First size would be available in April.
January 26, 2025, 07:43:06 AM 		1
SL 8 clone As there is a topic on the SL 8 from Tantan but many people are talking about other sellers, I decided (as suggested by Serge) to create another topic which will allow us to talk about other sellers.

For my part, I bought the frame in size 54 from CarbonCycleGear store on Aliexpress:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/1103601241

The frame weighs 869g (white paint included) and the fork 355g.

Communication with the seller is really perfect. He answers all questions even after receiving the frame.

I haven't been able to ride the bike yet but the quality looks really excellent as shown in the photos.

If you want other photos, don't hesitate to ask.

In short, there are certainly plenty of good sellers (and many less good ones) but I highly recommend this one.

I will keep you informed of the progress of the bike construction.

Feel free to ask anything.

DIsclaimer : I am not a expert of carbon nor a pro rider :D.
February 03, 2025, 12:12:46 PM 		1