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Re: Opinions on Elves frames
Quote from: kisuke3 on December 22, 2020, 11:21:08 PM
I didn't buy that bike, but...

A teammate of mine is considering buying one and inquired about it in September. At that time, the tire width was 25C, and we were told it would be 28C by the end of the year. The bikes were VANYAR disc and FALATH disc.

Just FYI.

Maybe a 32C when the mithril versions are released.

Edit - To add something that may actually be useful.

I like the Vanyar geometry. I ride a Giant ML frame now, comfortable enough, but probably a touch on the big side. Their 2XL seems comparable in size to a medium Propel or Aeroad.  I'd consider a 2XL 54 Disc Vanyar, if it could fit 28C, and, if I could get matte black to knock a couple hundred off the price, and the silly name off the frame.
December 23, 2020, 03:52:02 PM 		1
Re: Raceline Hider / Cinelli Pressure Update...

So I reached out to both Top Carbon (TCRF040) and ICAN (A40)

Top Carbon asked me what my "bike company name" was, meaning they only sell their frames to businesses. Makes sense if they're the OEM.

ICAN quoted me:
USD $740/set ,including frame ,fork ,handlebar, stem, headset, hanger
Shipping to USA by Fedex ,USD $138 (7-15days)

Their customer service was very pleasant. And not only did they include a few photos of the frame in their reply, but they also attached a full fledge pdf/manual of the specs including weight of all the individual components (bearings ect).

$900 shipped is probably more than what folks would expect to pay. However, it's clear they are slightly above the bargain bin Chinese frames.
October 15, 2022, 09:51:19 AM 		1
Re: Velobuild VB-R-218

This guy thinks it rides super comfy, for what it’s worth.
Also, GC Performance by his own admission pumps his tires up super hard.

I think it rides as firm as expected for an aero frame. Not as comfy as a traditional round tubed frame anyway. But by no means exceptionally harsh. I use Vittoria Corsa tubulars and Clinchers depending on the wheelset. Measured 28mm wide (25c labelled tires). It did not beat me up any more than my other bikes on longish 100km+ rides.
October 26, 2022, 11:34:50 AM 		1
Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame Just received a size 52 frame in matte black with the separate bar and stem.  https://imgur.com/a/F90D6Bd

Shipped 8 days after the order was placed and shipping took 7 days to Pennsylvania.  Overall, I'm impressed for the price.  Frame with derailleur hanger is 1020 grams - about 100g more than what I would expect a genuine Tarmac frame and 200g more than the S-Works.  Not bad.  The rest of the components come in at very respectable weights.  The bar and stem are quite a bit lighter than the Tarmac system and I could save 100g with a lightweight seatpost from Aliexpress. 

The frame and fork are clean from what I can see other than some imperfections in the paint work that I wouldn't expect to get through QC for a name brand frame. BB looks good and it remains to be seen whether the brake mounts will need faced.

I plan to build up with Ultegra hydro mechanical disc and HED 60/90 wheels from another bike.  I was planning on using an FSA ACR headset and stem, but the ACR headset leaves a noticeable gap with the top of the headtube and adds more stack than I would like, so I may modify the included headset cap to fit flush with the ACR stem, which should accommodate full internal routing and look clean. The included stem is actually a bit lighter, but I prefer the look of the FSA.  TBD.

Instead of the included 40cm bars, which look OK but are too wide for my fit, I will be using "The One" handlebar in 36cm.  Its pretty shamelessly "inspired" by the Enve SES handlebars, which I have on hand for another planned build.  Without having ridden either one yet, the build quality and finish looks comparable to the Enve and is a bit lighter.  Neither feel like they will noticeably flex under load.
October 26, 2022, 06:00:30 PM 		1
Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
Quote from: Serge_K on October 27, 2022, 02:50:07 AM
That's great, pictures v promising!
Will be curious to hear about how you feel about ride quality, road feel, vs branded frames you've tried. Diabetic cycling and GC performance have both recently posted videos saying that the VB Pinarello clone rides "heavy" and wouldn't want them as main bikes, despite being light, stiff where you want it stiff, compliant where you want it compliant, tracking well, aero and so on.

Unless someone is blind testing unpainted frames with identical components and fit (that would be a cool YouTube series!), I wouldn't put too much stock in those subjective impressions.  Its hard not to expect the 10x more expensive frame to feel better.  I have 8300 miles on the Tarmac SL6 sport (round seatpost) frame that is getting stripped for this build and the fit should match within a few mm, so I expect I will notice any significant differences.  I might even A/B test with the same wheelset on an Aeroad just for fun to see which feels better. 
October 27, 2022, 11:02:59 AM 		1
Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame Having built and extensively ridden about 10 different bikes in the past 2 years from both Chinese and big name brands...I can tell you the differences among all of them are only marginally tangible when ridden at a coffee/recreational pace. However, the differences become quickly realized when pushed to the limit. Granted not everyone is sprinting at 60km/h or bombing down a descent at 70km/h.

I'm a huge advocate that wheels/tires/tube combo plus a proper bike fit are more critical to "pErFoRmAnCe" than the frame itself. Even having the wrong saddle or tire pressure can change how you feel about a bike's characteristics.
October 27, 2022, 04:55:43 PM 		1
Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame Try another builder ;)

I find the CFR-505 equally stable and playful as my Aethos S-Works or Canyon CF-SLX, descending Alps cols at 80+ km/h or at week-end furious club rides.
The same on MTB, comparing the FM-936 to an Epic S-Works.
There are good frames and bad frames, it is not about branded vs. open molds.
October 28, 2022, 01:01:33 AM 		1
Re: Frame pricing as a guide of quality People vote with their feet, or with their money. I'm about to buy several VB frames.
Just like the future of twitter is some vetting system so that the irrelevant voices are drowned out, we would ideally get people's views weighted by the number of miles they've ridden, over how many years, the watts/kg they can do, and the bikes they've ridden. Just because you dont get medical advice from your hairdresser and vice versa.

Everybody wants a stiff yet comfortable frame, but who can actually tell the difference? How many times is the difference actually due to one bike fitting better, a different wheeslet, different tyres, different tyre pressure? Or pure subjectivity of the rider, like day 1 is sunny and you're fresh, day 2 it's cold and you're tired. Do you think your riding experience with the same bike will be the same?

I have a giant propel with farsports rims & sapim spokes. And a cannondale supersix himod with campag bora wheels. I can tell you i get wheel rub out of the saddle sometimes on the giant. I don't think i do on the cannondale, but i never ride them side by side on the same routes. And i wouldn't know which one is stiffer, and if it told you, that opinion would only be worth something if i had isolated all variables but the frame. I'd have to change the wheels, the bars, even the crankset. Needless to say, i'm never doing that. Is a frame that flexes actually flexes, or do you have the wrong bottom bracket, crank, bars, wheels, tyres, or pressure?

Then there's the question of "good enough". A given frame might be better, but if it costs double (or 8x more) and you can only tell the difference by riding 1 right after the other in a strict experiment, then most of the bike riding population should be perfectly happy with the cheaper one.

Then there's the question of status. People like to flex. I have friends who literally take pride from paying full retail price for stuff. For them paying top dollar with sticker shock is a badge of honour. With behaviours like that, you have the luxury industry, like Pinarello.

Anyway.

On relative value between brands you listed, Velobuild, as far as i can tell, sells quite a few more bikes than most competitors. Business wise, that could justify their lower price point. From YT & forum content, it is not clear to me that a dengfu or a carbonda is automatically better. And Winspace and Elves probably have better finish and QC, but if you get one of the VB that does NOT have problems, is it really a better bike in a way you can measure? If you get a poorly finished VB one, it seems that people get frustrated for a bit, then the problem gets fixed. I guess the more you pay the less you should expect to get your hands dirty. Some people like that, others don't.

It also seems clear to me that the VB177 is better made than the 168: it seems VB (or SPcycle, rather) is getting better over time.

Winspace is paying youtubers a lot, their marketing budget overall seems quite important. Someone has to pay for that. They're like Farsports, in a way, their pricing has gone up a LOT in recent years because they're marketing themselves, successfully, as a legit brand, not just an OEM.

Blablabla. Back to my starting point: voting with my money, I'm about to buy several VB frames. Maybe i'm mistaken, wish me luck :)
November 15, 2022, 10:29:23 AM 		1
Re: Onirii One pictures
November 15, 2022, 03:59:31 PM 		1
Re: Opinions on Elves frames
Quote from: slow_poke11 on November 28, 2022, 05:59:15 PM
you can tell your kids that your frame was made by elves

Well this explains the low rider weight limit...
November 28, 2022, 07:23:37 PM 		1