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Re: Patty's Long Rant and Guide To Affordable Frames I'm going to be brutally honest here as well.

I'm likely one of the "super experienced members" you mentioned.
For about a decade, I've been assembling frames and wheels directly from China.
My journey began with discovering groups like MTBR, iPlay, Pieter, etc., and eventually led me to chinertown.com
Infinite thanks and love to Sitar_Ned!!
I hope my contributions have helped build this fantastic forum and gave something back from what I learned here.

I'm fortunate to have a well-paying job that allows me to build bikes for friends and family as a hobby, at no cost to them.
My goal is to provide them with great bikes at fair prices and to make them happy.

I'm historically particularly biased towards Carbonda and Lightbicycle, brands that you amusingly never mention.
This isn't because they pay me (they don't). It's because, among all the providers I've tested, they have never let me down.
Their products are neither the cheapest nor overly expensive.
Moreover, if anything goes wrong, their customer support surpasses that of any Western brand I've dealt with.

I understand that some people, like Trace Velo, Joe, to some extent Hambini, many others, maybe you, chasing followers to carve out a living on YouTube and social media.

However, this has turned on the marketing machine around here.
No-name frames are suddenly sub par, while stickered frames selling at double the price, or even worse, branded frames are the real deal.
Persuading folks they need some stiffness and aero benefits only pros might need.
And it works! People are seeking broader validation and rely on branded visuals to reassure themselves they're not making a misguided decision.

It doesn’t bother me people trying do their thing on YouTube and elsewhere.
But your arrival here has sadly contributed unintentionally to the spoiling of the pristine wilderness that Chinertown once was  :'(
January 31, 2024, 05:19:05 AM 		1
Re: Replica Factor Ostro VAM
Quote from: Serge_K on February 27, 2025, 07:11:22 AM
I disagree because that line of reasoning is anti human and frankly just nihilistic, and ultimately puts on the same plane the worst criminals with the best operators. Or it ultimately implies that due diligence is useless.
I do agree that getting an answer to a question doesn't make it true, yes illusion of control is a thing, but you can't use that line of thought to say that nobody can't be trusted so it's just a gamble. It's not.

I do not think it is nihilistic. That is the consequence of virtually zero custom protection when purchasing through these channels. There is a reason why customer protection laws are established, or the situation would be very similar elsewhere. What good is an answer if you have no way of telling if it is accurate? Seller tells a buyer that the frame is 90% T800 and 10% T1100 - there is no way of knowing if its accurate (knowingly or unknowingly), but I understand why it can make the buyer more inclined to make the purchase. There are many motivations to give you a genuine answer, many motivations/reasons to not give you an answer at all - not necessarily due to malice or connected to quality of the product - and there are no repercussions either way whatsoever.

I did not say that nobody can be trusted, but that empirical evidence is all that matters. Whether we like it or not, it is a gamble - even established, tested Chinese brands sometimes ship a flop. All of us are just trying to improve our odds, either by asking questions or relying on (someone's) first-hand experience.

Edit: I don't know, perhaps it's just my job, where experimental evidence is the only thing that matters, manifesting...
February 27, 2025, 10:16:29 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike Yes, something lost in translation here.

A bit more patience people… a frame is on it’s way to us. We can give the real life information soon
I have - 42/44/46 and 50 lying around here.

Tires clearance will be checked too. Will start with a 2.4 tire on 32mm int rim. Then we know the max directly :).
June 06, 2026, 04:27:24 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike Well, let's keep the definition of what gravel racing is to another thread and let's discuss the frame characteristics here. Looking forward to see it build up.
On a side note, I am (in general with the Chinese brands) astonished that the mould(s) are there but there is ambiguity about clearance. I would suspect this is something that is normally checked during the design on the 3d model and validated with the first 3d printed prototype.
June 17, 2026, 08:20:01 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike "The frame looks great, especially the rear geometry where the metrics are quite similar to Factor Sarana.

For me, the main downside is the seatpost. I prefer a round post over an aero type, which makes it easy to change to a different setback or a dropper.
June 20, 2026, 06:46:11 PM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike Some footage and images on our Instagram.

2.4 fits front and rear with 4-5mm clearance (61mm WAM).
June 22, 2026, 02:04:12 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike It’s a shame it didn’t work out with Aerys. Personally, I think the new logo is awful. However, I don’t think selling the frame without a logo is a good idea, as brand image is one of the few areas where Western brands are still currently superior. Many consumers want a recognisable logo with a consistent design language. I’m no different. Frames without a logo are strongly associated with the cheaper end of the market.

Here is my idea for a logo concept. I think the logo on the rims is very good, so in my opinion it would look just as good on the frame. It’s simple, it’s already recognisable thanks to the wheels, and it’s visually appealing enough for the western market.
June 27, 2026, 04:06:11 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike Wouldtn it be possible to configure with the rim decals on frame as Thaus suggested? Similar decal look pretty good in mirror finish on the voicevelo echo imho. Maybe wouldnt even need to make new ones? But the existing ones are probably made for a radius on the rims?
June 29, 2026, 03:01:34 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike First of all, thanks for the positive feedback on my last mock-up. So here is a second, slightly improved version.

I really liked the choice of the word ‘aerys’, but the font didnt match the ‘XMCS’ on the rims. You cant please everyone but the fact that the majority would prefer a frame without any branding shows that the current concept isnt quite right yet. I very much hope that the latest logo posted by requiem doesnt get the green light, as it again doesnt match the font on the rims and lacks a consistent design language. The ENVE logo, even though its just as intricate, is symmetrical and simple, making it very pleasing to the eye. The proposed font is very obtrusive, looks cheap and lacks a timeless appeal.

I hope more care is put into the design as (for me) branding is just as much a part of a good frame as the quality or the lay-up.

Edit: I just want to make clear that Im simply trying to help. The GRT and VRT frames look great otherwise, Ive already seen them in Frankfurt at the weekend.
June 29, 2026, 11:12:03 AM 		1
Re: XMCS: 2026 Aero Gravel bike
Quote from: akira11 on July 14, 2026, 04:12:15 AM
great to know! now the real question is... is it more FUN to ride than the Tideace NOAH?  ;D

I’m not the most objective on that question, but it really is. Is it the tires, or the frame, or both? Idk, but bombing down silly stuff is more fun on this. It just absorbs everything. Deep sand (of which we have quite some here) is suddenly easier. I truly think Peter built and absolute winner here.

I think though: the real ‘review’ will have to wait until I can try 50mm tires that fit the Noah too. I have a 50mm Touareg Race and 50 mm Caracal Race waiting. Probably on the bike in 2 weeks.

And of course, most important will be the experiences shared by the people buying the frame ^^.
July 14, 2026, 12:05:21 PM 		1