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Re: Transferring Components from a Damaged Giant Defy 1 to a New Frame Of course it's possible if the groupset itself is not damaged. With rare high end exceptions where mechanical groupsets can't be installed on some frames, it should be just a straight swap with the exception of new brake hoses and fittings. A few other compatibilities to look out for would be clearance for tire, chainrings, disc rotors but everything is probably fine
By the way the UCI certification is completely worthless and nothing but marketing if you don't race in UCI events. Not indicative of quality in any way
May 22, 2024, 04:34:08 AM 		1
Re: Transferring Components from a Damaged Giant Defy 1 to a New Frame So the biggest issue when selecting a new frame is minimizing the number of new components you need to buy. You definitely need to plan on getting new brake hoses, brake barbs and olives, cable housing and cables that you can cut to match the new cable routing. Pretty much in every case you need new bottom bracket bearings since it’s easier to just buy new ones than try to extract your old ones. You also are going to have issues with the integrated cable routing on these newer Chiner frames. Your defy has semi internal, which means your stem won’t be compatible. So you’ll need a new stem to match the integrated cable routing, or you can buy an integrated handlebar. Many of these frames come with a handlebar or stem that matches that bikes routing,  so that’s something worth paying attention to.

You will also need some specialized tools if you don’t already have them. Cable housing cutters, tools to remove the cassette and disc brake lock rings (if you have center lock discs), and a tool for your new bottom bracket—depending on which standard your new frame has. Also a bleed kit for your brake swap.

That’s pretty much everything I can think of off the top of my head
May 22, 2024, 07:35:10 AM 		1
VeloBuild VB-R-066 Disc 2023 Road Bike Build I recently completed a new build based on the VeloBuild VB-R-066 2023 Disc endurance(ish) road bike frame and the L-TWOO eR9 electronic groupset.

I've only ridden it for 30km, and so far, so good, but this is no long term ride review, instead I'll focus on the build. In short, it met my expectations.

Let's start with the summary: Total weight of the built bike, including pedals, bottle cages, out-front mount for computer/light, seatpost mount for light/radar, and bike pump mount: 7.85 kg, or 17.3 lbs. Total cost for all components, including shipping, sales tax, etc was AUD 3347, which based on today's exchange rate is USD 2225 or EUR 2055.

The frame is size S in a matte black finish. I'm sure I'll regret choosing a matte finish, but for now it looks great. The frame weighed 885 g, with all bolts and attachments removed. The uncut fork was 359 g, and the seatpost was 203 g (400 mm). I didn't order a handlebar from VeloBuild.

The frame also came with thru axles, rear derailleur hanger, front derailleur mount (bolted on, not riveted), cable exit rubber gaskets for both electronic and mechanical shifting, expander plug, top cap, headset bearings, seatpost bung and cover, crank scuff plate, and a headset cover for using a non-integrated stem and handlebar. The headset ring and cover wasn't deep enough to reach the top bearing, which perhaps could be fixed with some headset spacers, but I used a Ritchey upper headset instead. The extra rear derailleur hanger I had ordered didn't come in the box, so I contacted Chris, and I got it in the mail a few weeks later.

Frame and fork quality was ok - fine - about what I expected from VeloBuild after following this forum for some time. The frame had some sharp edges around the headtube and bottom bracket shell, but otherwise it was quite smooth. I noticed some pitting inside the fork steerer and in the lower bearing seat in the headtube, but that was all the pitting I could see.

There was some paint overspray on both the brake caliper mounting holes, in particular on the fork - not a surprise. I faced these myself using an IceToolz "Shuriken" Disc Mount Facing Tool #E272 (https://www.icetoolz.eu/en/icetoolz-disc-mount-facing-tool-shuriken-e272/a9232) that I had ordered in advance. I didn't have a bolt with a nut that was long and thin enough for clamping the tool so I could face the rear caliper mounts, but I was able to solve it by using one of the long caliper mounting bolts and the L-TWOO adapter plate (see photo). I think the facing helped - aligning the calipers at the end to avoid brake rub was very straightforward.

The lower entry point for the hydraulic brake hose on the fork required a little filing with a round file before I could push the hose through. Again, not a surprise, but a quick fix.

I've never built a fully internally routed frame before, so I spent quite a bit of time pulling and pushing foam damper casing as far as I could into the downtube and chainstays. I even pulled the electronic power cables for the derailleurs through the foam damper casing in the chainstay and around the bottom bracket area. Enabling mechanics to use old gear cables to pull the hydraulic hoses through the frame and the foam damper casing is a great feature of the L-TWOO groupset.

For the T47 bottom bracket, I installed a cheap Lingmai branded one from AliExpress with internal bearings for a 24mm crank spindle ("t47-24i"). I also ordered a ZTTO branded one as a backup, it was identical in both looks and weight (except the logo), so they're probably from the same factory. It threaded into the shell without any issue.

I had an unused Elita One Carbon seatpost lying around, so I used that instead of the one supplied by VeloBuild. Both had a very snug fit in the seat tube, and I have had no slippage so far, using only carbon paste and torquing the bolt to 4 Nm.

Installing the L-TWOO eR9 groupset went well, by following their user manual (https://oss.ltwoo.com/download/en/eRX_User-Manual_V2.6_EN.pdf), with a couple of exceptions - see below.

The user manual refers to a "stability adjustment screw" at the back of the front derailleur, but my eR9 version didn't have this. Related to the front derailleur, I added a chain catcher for peace of mind, but so far I haven't had a dropped chain. I'm running the groupset as 2x11, with 50/34T chainrings and a 11-32T cassette.

For chain sizing, I followed the Park Tool instructions (https://www.parktool.com/en-int/blog/repair-help/chain-length-sizing), which resulted in a slightly shorter chain than by following L-TWOO's method. I figured since there's no clutch, and the rear derailleur cage spring is weak according to some reports, it was better to make the chain shorter rather than longer, for improved tension.

To reach the mounting bolt for the shifters, I folded both the front and the rear of the hoods, and inserted the ball-end of an Allen key from the front. Make sure you have a high quality Allen key for this!

For bleeding the brakes, I followed the method in the manual of pushing mineral oil from the caliper to a funnel on the levers. I didn't do the extra step of opening the vent hole. However, after the first shake-down ride on a bumpy road, I did another quick lever bleed (funnel on the lever, brake pads left in the calipers, pump the levers). I got some more air bubbles out then, and I now have great brake feel from the levers.

Components:
Tools purchased for this build:
May 22, 2024, 08:12:25 AM 		1
Re: Transferring Components from a Damaged Giant Defy 1 to a New Frame
Quote from: alfiomotrambo on May 22, 2024, 04:23:21 AM
I am considering either an ICAN A22 (I love the black color) or an ELVES Avari Pro. The ELVES is UCI approved, unlike the ICAN.

the ican is quite old with recommended 25/28C tyres. That's very much not future proof.
the elves is surprisingly heavy (baby size 990g) and maxes out at 30C.

Have a look at sp cycle SP-R025-SL - you can get it for cheaper than what the website says. SP cycle = Tideace = haidelibicycle.com = disai. So if you email all of them you'll get the best deal.
SP Cycle has several models you may like.
Lightcarbon has a model or 2 you'll like
I really like my long teng 268.
Velobuild is now consistently making nice frames, the 268 is proving very popular.
Given the elves look like an endurance bike, the yishun R1018 may be good for you - super light, monocoque -.

I would never buy an ican nor an elves myself :)

Re. tools, have a look at a few bike builds video on YT. you'll quickly notice what tools you need.

May 22, 2024, 09:24:50 AM 		1
Re: Transferring Components from a Damaged Giant Defy 1 to a New Frame I've transferred components multiple times to different frames. You'll most likely run into issues, spilt hydraulic fluid and questioning your life decisions. At that point go to bed and start fresh the next morning! The bike building skills you'll develop will rival all but the most old school LBS mechanics. Nowadays, I feel I can tune any bike into perfection. Don't be shy and feel free to ask questions!
May 22, 2024, 09:36:02 AM 		1
Re: Affordable lightweight frameset (not Winspace SLC 3) Brands command a premium, for what benefit?

With Giant being the exception (a brand that owns / is the factories), you have factories that make frames for brands, and brands distribute and sell. Each layer needs to eat. The further away from China, the more expensive the layer, and the less relevant (carbon bike market is now so commoditized with all frames looking the same and within 5w of each other). Therefore, the closer to the factory, the better the value & the less bullsh1t.

It is telling that Pinarello has frames made in china and they paint them in Italy. You can get real custom... because of the paint. Factor is the same: their frame looks open mould, but you get to really tune... the paint.

There's something to be said about where the expertise really lies. Take carbon layup. Is it Specialized that's really the expert, or Specialized suppliers? I dont have the answer, but it's important when thinking about light frames: as of now, T700 is ghetto. T800 is the gold standard, most legit carbon things are made with it. And then you go into fancy territory, with T1000, T1100, and increasingly, you see exotic things like M30, M40, and others. As brands brand (ie differentiate), there's also the question of how much a brand is making shit up (what does specialized's Fact carbon actually mean? Ditto with Pinarello's different carbon tiers). T1000 is "known" (rumoured?) to cost about 2x T800, so you will NOT see a frame made with T1000 for $500. If T1000 and $500 are seen on the same page, it means they (at best) INCLUDE T1000 in the frame, but it could be 1% - obviously, that's unregulated, Chinese are known to basically lie, and, maybe most importantly, you can't test it yourself -. The biggest benefit of higher tiers is you can use less of it for the same strength, so frames get lighter.

And so, you're left with the usual questions:
- Do you want to pay extra for a brand? The Chinese market now has brands, including Specialized equivalent brands (ie social media fluff fest). As a westerner, i'd say buying a Chinese brand is the worst choice possible: you pay a premium, but you're not in China, so you can't flex at the cafe your branded bigcock frame that nobody knows, and you can't lean on the bigcock bike shop for help / maintenance / support / warranty / i spent money here please be make me feel important and refer to me as your lordship.
- If you buy a western brand, (1) you (usually) get to rely on your local LBS, (2) you get a frame that's been QCed (questionable truth), (3) and if you buy something high end, you buy a vibe around layup technology, ride properties, the secret sauce that makes it so that when you jump on a specialized, your hair grows back, your biceps get more defined, and the ladies look at you like "ooh myyyy". (3) goes back to my point above on who actually has the layup know how.

So, a rational actor will wonder: how much more over an equivalent spec (features & weight) OEM frame am i willing to spend to benefit from 1-2-3?
- If you buy an OEM frame, you have to trust that (A) the factory / broker actually exists (people on this forum still using paypal insurance scheme to send money to Farsports is money down the drain, as far as i'm concerned), (B) they will ship you what you ordered (when Airwolf on Aliexpress sells you a frame for 12 dollars made of full T1100, spoiler alert, they're lying), (C) they will ship you a frame that's not a dog, and that's been QCed enough (Light carbon shipping cheese, Tavelo with undersized BBs whose shells crack during install, and all the horror stories you can find on here with Airwolf, tantan, workswell, and so on).
- On (C), because a seller will usually tell you not to worry, then ship you swiss cheese anyway, you have to factor in an element of risk: more often than not, seller A (after careful consideration on your part to choose that seller) will ship good frames, but occasionally, they will fuck up, at which point you need to be qualified enough to understand where they fucked up, and complain. Also, let's be honest, in many instances, people complaining about frames is USER ERROR, or such trivial niggles that the factory should indeed ignore the noises you make. And you have to complain loud enough, to a seller that is honest enough / has enough of an incentive to listen and help.

And so, this forum is invaluable in helping identify (a) where the value is, (b) good sellers, (c) and bad ones.

For light frames, it depends on what you deem light (and what tyre clearance you need). A lot of 2024 frames are around or below 1000g in Medium (starting with the Velobuild 268, which really is the standard of value). SP Cycle claims a 880g frame (30C, R025-SL), Yishun has an endurance frame at 900g, Long Teng claims their chonky boy 301 is 980g. I havent mapped out the lighter side of the market, because i'm over 80kg myself, but i would say: reach out to OEM with a good reputation on this forum, ideally order 2 frames and build 1 for a friend (or more), as you will command better care and attention, ask questions, accept the risk that no matter what you do, you may have problems to solve, but deal with someone who will more likely than not agree to help you rather than ghost you, and have fun.

Or buy a Giant TCR, ofc, once you've swallowed the upfront cost, rarely do people regret buying a branded frame.

Notes:
- on light carbon, recent precedents make them look bad (1 example of awful cheese carbon, 1 example of a down tube you could deform by hand, off the top of my head, but they generally have great reputation, and they're linked to Yishun (if i'm not mistaken), which also has great reputation.
- on tantan, plenty of people report horror stories, but they also OEM for big brands, and they are huge (assuming a constant error rate, the bigger you are, the more errors). As such, and because perfection is an ideal, nor a reality, they're probably still a good counterpart.
- Airwolf has an error rate so high it makes errors part of who they are, so you probably dont want to buy frames from them. But i've been buying cockpits from them, and i love their cockpits. So even that is more nuanced than just "avoid airwolf"

What do i know? I've been riding bikes for a long time, most of my friends ride bikes and many of them are champions, and i've built 9 chinese bikes in the last 2y.

These opinions are my own and as a matter of course, i tend to agree with what i say, which doesn't make it truth.
October 01, 2024, 03:02:53 AM 		1
Re: VeloBuild VB-TT-023 Finally finished my VB-TT build. Only ridden on Turbo so far so no idea on road feel / secureness of contact points (particularly concerned about Bars / Seatpost slipping on bumpy terrain)

Components:

SRAM Force Rear Mech
2 pairs of SRAM AXS Wireles Blips
76 Projects Blip Holders
RideRever Trivia TT Brakes
Stock Basebar and Vision TFE Clone Bars
Pass Quest 56t Single Chainring
Dura Ace R9200 167.5 mm Crankset
KMC 12 Speed Chain
Praxis T47 Integrated Bottom Bracket (Shimano)
Shimano 105 R7100 11-34t Cassette
ISM PN3.1 Saddle
*I do have a SRAM Red eTap AXS Front Mech and Pass Quest 56/42t Double Chainring for a 2x setup
Tri Spoke and Disc to be obtained in due course.

Cost: £1,921.54 (not including labor to build or 2x Chainset setup)
October 28, 2024, 05:40:48 AM 		1
Re: VeloBuild VB-R-268 frame For all of you brave and handy mechanics who went with mechanical group on this frame... Please tell me, is it THAT painful? I've routed countless of cables through mtb frames, but still virgin with regards to integrated handlebars.

I was keen on getting di2 105, but damn, not sure I wanna cash out thousand+ € on it. I found really cheap 105 2x12 mechanical on Ali for 350€ (shifters, f+rd and hydro brake callipers), and that leaves me with only cranks, chain and 2 rotors to buy.

It's not the money that's the issue, it's the bang for buck issue. If so many road bikes now come with mechanical groups, I don't see why couldn't I go with it, except if the shifting perf will suck. I get it, internal routing will be pita, but once I do that, what's left to be sorry about? Couple ms faster shifting? Dont give a damn about that. RD/FD indexing? Not a problem, and from my mtb experience with shimano 12sp, they are so damn rock solid and once you set them up, they can go really forever without a issue.

Advise me please, my roadie elders.
October 28, 2024, 03:38:01 PM 		1
Re: Velobuild Carbon Bottle Cages Though I do not doubt that you are happy with your purchase and those bottle cages are actually good, I neither find the price nor the weight anything remarkable. There are several options on AliExpress with similar specs, some even at half price (even before any additional sale/discount codes applied).

The only thing I find remarkable about your post, is how much this reads as a paid promotion. But maybe that's just me ???
November 14, 2024, 08:05:09 AM 		1
Re: Velobuild Carbon Bottle Cages Haha, yeah that explains it. My first thought was: this sounds like AI  ;D

Like I said, there's several.

KOCEVLO seems popular; lots of sellers, lots of reviews: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005042815195.html

One that keeps popping up in my "3 choice picks"; 16 ± 2g ~10€: https://www.aliexpress.com/gcp/300000512/nnpage2024?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.3.2e57SJVaSJVaba&productIds=1005006562212152 (hope this link works ...)

I went with this one though; bit more expensive but I wanted a side-load option. I think I paid ~20€/pair a few months ago. Still working fine for me after about 2k with them: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005704801105.html
November 14, 2024, 08:27:55 AM 		1