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Re: Velobuild VB-R-177
Probably a good time to follow up with my thoughts on the 177. Anecdotal of course, so take with a grain of salt. 1. By and large I think the 177 is the better frame versus the 168. It's lighter, much stiffer, and I've found it to be more responsive of a riding experience. EPS molding if that's important to you. The geometry is more forgiving as well. 2. I've tested both the 168 and 177 with a variety of wheels: Winspace Hypers, Farports EVO, Elite Drive, and VeloBuild's own 38mm depth road wheels. This is where the differences in the frames became most apparent. The 177 comes alive with quality wheels. Despite most of the aforementioned wheels being stiff race wheels they felt somewhat soft under load with the 168. Marginal but noticeable. While the 168 is an aero frame (and arguably looks faster), you can easily slap some aero wheels on the 177 as well as optimize your on-bike position. 3. Velobuild's 38mm depth road wheels - Yes they're heavy but retail is only $339 USD. 1778g for what is suppose to be climbing wheels. Very noticeable on bad pavement and upon acceleration. Steel spokes and Novatec's cheapest generic hubs. For an ULTIMATE budget build where weight isn't a priority they are probably fine. Overall system weight is still more important. Sidenote...Novatec's top-tier hubs on the other hand are fantastic and I run them on my gravel wheels. 4. Front derailleur cable port - If you're running mechanical shift cables, routing and setting up the FD will most likely account for half of the entire time you spend on the bike build itself. The 177, 168, and CX-002 all use this style of cable port. Just be patient... 5. Separate Stem Combo - We can all agree the supplied stem which comes with the separate bar/stem combo is flawed in its design. VB updated the supplied metal C-ring/clip and removed the metal tabs, however you may still find difficulty removing all the headset slack/play. A fool-proof alternative is to opt for the integrated handlebars, use FSA's ACR system, or my favorite which is the FSA no.69 headset if you need to run your own stem. Hoping one day VB offers a separate stem with internal routing capabilities but with a tradition round top-cap design. So for $500+shipping you get a classic looking frame resembling an S-Works SL6, a non-proprietary seatpost, and a frameset that comes in well under 1000g without paint and hardware. Solid if you ask me. Sadly I had disassemble my 177 (for a 2nd time) to donor the components for another build. I'm running SRAM eTap on my VB CX-002 frame and the setup/experience is so awesome...I'm most likely gonna rebuild my 177 yet again but also use eTap. Make it my travel/climbing/holiday bike. Won't have to worry about FD routing issues either. THIS IS THE WAY. March 23, 2023, 10:12:17 AM |
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Re: Replica Factor Ostro VAM
Probably the best take on the carbon layers that they used, for that price range for sure. We will see in the end how that goes. Do you have a picture of your bike tssy5? Matte black with no logo, pretty stealthy August 20, 2024, 10:35:34 PM |
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Re: VeloBuild VB-R-268 frame
Yo how patty welcome boys and girls, love your videos man I’m a subscriber by the way. Ayyyye thanks for the support! My Velobuild bikes and the support of the members here have a been a tremendous help for the channel. I was able to fix the creak by doing two things: 1. Increased the torque of the seatpost clamp from 6nm to about 7.5nm 2. I changed saddles. The included saddle rail clamps to accommodate 7x9 saddles are flawed. VeloBuild is aware. Using the 7x7 clamps instead along with 7x7 metal rail saddle fixed the issue. Painting on the VB 268 like $50-$80 extra. If you can get the Winspace T1500 for $1000 then it's worth it. Otherwise yeah use the money for some nice wheels. I really love the Magene Exar Ultra/Dark wheels at the price point. August 25, 2024, 06:38:20 PM |
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Re: Tavelo Aero Frame
With the exception of 1 to 2 road races a year, I stopped racing crits a couple of years ago. My anxiety for crashing and frail ego of getting dropped is high. Tough to make videos with a broken collarbone. This week I took my buddy down to our flagship Specialized shop to purchase an Allez Sprint complete bike. I think he paid around $3000 before taxes. Beforehand he asked my thoughts about going with Specialized, and I did my best to consider all factors. He's new to the sport and most likely won't ride more than 50 miles a week. But then again he might just fall in love and go all in. Could I have recommended a more affordable Chinese alternative with better wheels? Absolutely. But then I would be accountable for spec'ing all the components, building up the frameset, servicing it, and dealing with any future issues. Because we're buddies. It's a lot to take in for a new customer. He will have the peace of mind of local after sales support and warranty. My Tavelo (Attack) is really good. $1500. Especially paired with a set CRW wheels. Both of which I paid for. It has very refined riding dynamic, and smoother than my T1500. Most likely the Arow is a blend of both the Attack and T1500 combined. But spending $2000 to find out if it can come close to my Propel would put me in the poor house. September 11, 2024, 09:51:40 AM |
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Re: Affordable lightweight frameset (not Winspace SLC 3)
Brands command a premium, for what benefit? With Giant being the exception (a brand that owns / is the factories), you have factories that make frames for brands, and brands distribute and sell. Each layer needs to eat. The further away from China, the more expensive the layer, and the less relevant (carbon bike market is now so commoditized with all frames looking the same and within 5w of each other). Therefore, the closer to the factory, the better the value & the less bullsh1t. It is telling that Pinarello has frames made in china and they paint them in Italy. You can get real custom... because of the paint. Factor is the same: their frame looks open mould, but you get to really tune... the paint. There's something to be said about where the expertise really lies. Take carbon layup. Is it Specialized that's really the expert, or Specialized suppliers? I dont have the answer, but it's important when thinking about light frames: as of now, T700 is ghetto. T800 is the gold standard, most legit carbon things are made with it. And then you go into fancy territory, with T1000, T1100, and increasingly, you see exotic things like M30, M40, and others. As brands brand (ie differentiate), there's also the question of how much a brand is making shit up (what does specialized's Fact carbon actually mean? Ditto with Pinarello's different carbon tiers). T1000 is "known" (rumoured?) to cost about 2x T800, so you will NOT see a frame made with T1000 for $500. If T1000 and $500 are seen on the same page, it means they (at best) INCLUDE T1000 in the frame, but it could be 1% - obviously, that's unregulated, Chinese are known to basically lie, and, maybe most importantly, you can't test it yourself -. The biggest benefit of higher tiers is you can use less of it for the same strength, so frames get lighter. And so, you're left with the usual questions: - Do you want to pay extra for a brand? The Chinese market now has brands, including Specialized equivalent brands (ie social media fluff fest). As a westerner, i'd say buying a Chinese brand is the worst choice possible: you pay a premium, but you're not in China, so you can't flex at the cafe your branded bigcock frame that nobody knows, and you can't lean on the bigcock bike shop for help / maintenance / support / warranty / i spent money here please be make me feel important and refer to me as your lordship. - If you buy a western brand, (1) you (usually) get to rely on your local LBS, (2) you get a frame that's been QCed (questionable truth), (3) and if you buy something high end, you buy a vibe around layup technology, ride properties, the secret sauce that makes it so that when you jump on a specialized, your hair grows back, your biceps get more defined, and the ladies look at you like "ooh myyyy". (3) goes back to my point above on who actually has the layup know how. So, a rational actor will wonder: how much more over an equivalent spec (features & weight) OEM frame am i willing to spend to benefit from 1-2-3? - If you buy an OEM frame, you have to trust that (A) the factory / broker actually exists (people on this forum still using paypal insurance scheme to send money to Farsports is money down the drain, as far as i'm concerned), (B) they will ship you what you ordered (when Airwolf on Aliexpress sells you a frame for 12 dollars made of full T1100, spoiler alert, they're lying), (C) they will ship you a frame that's not a dog, and that's been QCed enough (Light carbon shipping cheese, Tavelo with undersized BBs whose shells crack during install, and all the horror stories you can find on here with Airwolf, tantan, workswell, and so on). - On (C), because a seller will usually tell you not to worry, then ship you swiss cheese anyway, you have to factor in an element of risk: more often than not, seller A (after careful consideration on your part to choose that seller) will ship good frames, but occasionally, they will fuck up, at which point you need to be qualified enough to understand where they fucked up, and complain. Also, let's be honest, in many instances, people complaining about frames is USER ERROR, or such trivial niggles that the factory should indeed ignore the noises you make. And you have to complain loud enough, to a seller that is honest enough / has enough of an incentive to listen and help. And so, this forum is invaluable in helping identify (a) where the value is, (b) good sellers, (c) and bad ones. For light frames, it depends on what you deem light (and what tyre clearance you need). A lot of 2024 frames are around or below 1000g in Medium (starting with the Velobuild 268, which really is the standard of value). SP Cycle claims a 880g frame (30C, R025-SL), Yishun has an endurance frame at 900g, Long Teng claims their chonky boy 301 is 980g. I havent mapped out the lighter side of the market, because i'm over 80kg myself, but i would say: reach out to OEM with a good reputation on this forum, ideally order 2 frames and build 1 for a friend (or more), as you will command better care and attention, ask questions, accept the risk that no matter what you do, you may have problems to solve, but deal with someone who will more likely than not agree to help you rather than ghost you, and have fun. Or buy a Giant TCR, ofc, once you've swallowed the upfront cost, rarely do people regret buying a branded frame. Notes: - on light carbon, recent precedents make them look bad (1 example of awful cheese carbon, 1 example of a down tube you could deform by hand, off the top of my head, but they generally have great reputation, and they're linked to Yishun (if i'm not mistaken), which also has great reputation. - on tantan, plenty of people report horror stories, but they also OEM for big brands, and they are huge (assuming a constant error rate, the bigger you are, the more errors). As such, and because perfection is an ideal, nor a reality, they're probably still a good counterpart. - Airwolf has an error rate so high it makes errors part of who they are, so you probably dont want to buy frames from them. But i've been buying cockpits from them, and i love their cockpits. So even that is more nuanced than just "avoid airwolf" What do i know? I've been riding bikes for a long time, most of my friends ride bikes and many of them are champions, and i've built 9 chinese bikes in the last 2y. These opinions are my own and as a matter of course, i tend to agree with what i say, which doesn't make it truth. October 01, 2024, 03:02:53 AM |
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Re: SL8 Replica Build
let's think a minute about worst case scenarios here. some cringe poser joins your group ride with an slfake. That day, it's tempo day, you're going 45kmh in a peloton, he takes a pothole, his frame self destructs, and he causes a crash for himself and others. to be honest, I would finish him off with my own fists. Same risk if you ride in a normal amateur peloton made of bikes of 4-5 years, maybe entry level, with no-manteinance etc. Or do you ask to the cyclists you follow/cycle with if their bike is “safe” ? I get your intention and I partially agree but, at the end, I think that anyone can buy the bike they want, fake SL8 included October 07, 2024, 01:39:10 PM |
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Re: New frame: Longteng RD301-D
If only derailleur hangers and these bits and bobs were standardized... October 08, 2024, 01:32:11 AM |
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Re: Hygge Aero Carbon Frame
So my frame arrived and I got busy assembling the bike. The frame came in a slightly crumbled box but the content was intact and not damaged, wrapped in what they called silk foam. I spent 20 minutes unwrapping it Frame itself is beautiful, well made, inside is smooth with no visible overruns or sharp edges. Brake mount surfaces are faced but could be better. I'm using Juin F1 hydro-mechs and rear caliper did fit (160 mm) by the skin of my teeth. Cutting the fork steerer was a bit scary experience because I never cut carbon which is easy to plunge into with a sharp saw. The pain in the arse was guiding the cables through the handlebar and there's where I lost most of the time. You need to sort 4 cables (I'm using 105 mechanical) and then guide them through narrow spaces. After lot of struggle, I helped myself by guiding the old shifting cable from the opposite side and it served as a guide for the cable housings to easily go out. Other parts went pretty easily. Still need to do the derailleurs, tighten everything up with the torque wrench, do some adjustments and do the handlebar tape. The whole bike came around 8 kg's with pedals and bottle cages. Feels solid and light. Had no chance to try it yet but sitting on it feels good in terms of my body position. I'm coming from the endurance geometry (Trek Domane) and I'm almost 50 years old so I left the full stack of spacers (which are aluminum and the C ring is a new design) so I'll be able to adjust the handlebar height eventually if I need to slam it furthermore. Can't wait to ride it but have a busy schedule these days. Cheers! October 16, 2024, 01:04:09 AM |
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Re: Hygge Aero Carbon Frame
Dear friends, My frame arrived last week after a month of anxious waiting and complications. I built it and rode it this weekend—it’s fun, light, fast, and both stiff and compliant. I’m pleased with it! It weighs about 8 kg with bottle cages, Garmin mount, and Look pedals. Note that my Merlin CDR-2 carbon wheels are not the lightest at 1650 g per pair. During assembly, I had some trouble routing the cables through the handlebars, but using a shifter cable as a guide made it easier. The other components were straightforward to install and adjust. The frame is pearl white, and its color truly shines in sunlight, with a sparkling effect and "laser" decals that change hues—definitely a head turner! I haven't had issues with the headset loosening, thanks to the new design C rings, and all bolts, including the seatpost one, remained secure. I'm using a Shimano 105 mechanical groupset, a 3D-printed Ryet saddle (160 g), Supacaz sticky cush bar tape, and Continental GP5000 32 mm tires with RideNow TPU tubes. I installed a chain catcher for frame protection and put Zefal Skin Armor under the downtube and in other key areas. The brakes are Juin F1 hydro-mechs and they fitted by the skin o' my teeth at the rear mount (160 mm rotors). I still need to adjust my hood positions, as they seem angled downwards too much. This frame is size 52 M, and it fits me perfectly (180 cm, 73 kg). I left full stack of alu spacers under the handlebars and will decide if I'll slam it futher down. Here are some photos I took during the ride but they don't do the justice - it's more beautiful in person! (Sorry for the dirty rims and anti-Velominati postioned tires and valve stems!). Hope Hygge won't steal my photos or will at least credit anyone who posts their photos after they put it on their FB or Insta. P.S. I don't know if they've changed the handlebars but they have different graphics and 6 Nm torque written. Handlebars are pretty stiff. Cheers! October 22, 2024, 04:37:55 AM |
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Re: TanTan/Seraph TT-X69 - The Real SuperSix EVO Clone? Alternative to LC017-D?
My prediction towards future market trends is -Flagship spec Western bikes will remain constant and recession proof. If you have $9,000 to $14,000 to waste, you really aren't looking at more value focused alternatives. -"Middle ground" bikes in relation to their more expensive SLR/S-Works/Lab71 counterparts will continue to lose market share in favor of premium Chinese brands. Tavelo, Winspace, SEKA, and Yoeleo will slowly replace SL/Expert level bikes in the next 5 years. Multiple American pro crit teams already race on Winspace/Tavelo frames. And Winspace is currently the title sponsor for their world tour-level women's program. -Legitimate OEM factories pumping out more clone/homage frames. Like @Sakizashi said, these companies are simply following customer trends and demands. I don't really endorse fakes but I'd rather buy one from a factory than a dodgy AliExpress dealer. And honestly I'd take this SS Evo clone from TanTan over their SL8. Visually this frame has a far better chance of actually being stiff and robust than that SL8 clone. If the square downtube on the LC017 bothers you, although the aerodynamic myths have kind of been busted, this X69 might be a better alternative. The paint quality wont be as good but will be cheap and probably ride the same December 05, 2024, 12:09:15 PM |
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