Yes good point and it's quite hard to predict how it's gonna feel, reviews are very personal between steel and carbon.
Some say cabon soaks up more chatter/short bumps then steel others say the other way around.
The only thing I know is I love what steel does on short bump compliance. if it's anything close to that I would be very happy. Aluminium has not been my friend on hardtails that's one thing I know for certain.

I did some more research also with a reach/stack calculator which helps cause you can enter the fork length and rake to the equasion and you can see what that does to the geo and you can easily compare two different bikes in the calc sheet.
This way I can also see how close I can get to the Niner. To get it the same is impossible but the IP-106 in 20" comes close in stack which is king for me, and has a shorter reach, I have long legs and short upper body so shorter reach would be not a problem..
Also one mtbr memeber posted that the IP-106 had great compliance aswell between the Chiner bikes..
Looks like a winner just have to get clear what all the costs is gonna be.. I dont see prices directly on the vendors site, you get prices when you get in touch or how does that work?

The numbers on a scale are different tho only the chainstay is exactly the same..

Hi Viperdriver

I agree to what your saying, but my current bike is 10.5kg its an older SIR9 frame 2011 with the older style ECC bottombracket (which sure looks cool but hard to get creek free)
I bought this bike not so much for trail riding but for transport to work light XC.
I need a second bike just for the trail that doesnt have the ECC.
The EMD frame is aluminum I've had a aluminum frame HT before they are not giving the type of compliance but it comes in very close to th SIR geometry. Most of the XC Niners are very close to those specs I would say they all have very long headtubes and long stack height exellent if you have longer legs like me.
I dont have money for a Niner Air9 if I would I would take it in a heart beat, I'm just browsing around to get a frame that has great compliance is very light and comes close to the frame I like most. I have a Transition TransAM 275 thats has very different geo it doesnt really work for me, most noticeable is a way lower stack height.. so I need as much of that as possible.

After some comparisons it looks like the IP-057 and IP-106 have the heighest stack height.
The IP-106 has the heighest but has noticeable shorter top tube and is max at 20" as the 057 comes in 21" both have numers in stack and reach that are way closer to the Niner then th Transition wich would mean I prolly will get the desired position on the bike.

And you are right looking into making rolling mass less, but im sure that if I can reduce 1500 grams of the frame and fork one would defintly notice. My XL Niner SIR9 frame wheighs around 2200 gr its steel with a steel fork which i dont know the weight of..

Oh well we'll see right;)

Hi I'm new to this forum and the whole Chiner idea;)

Ive read quite alot through this forum, tho its not been the easiest comparing different frames solutions to my needs yet.

I'll start at the base, I'm 6.2 200lbs and longish legs.
Recently I have bought a secondhand steel SS hardtail (Niner SIR9 2011 I think) with rigid fork, a bike that I wanted to use for riding to work and some general light xc stuff.
My second bike is a TransAM 275 also steel 130mm travel very cool bike... But I like the fit & geo of the Niner and the way it rides so much better, its 2500 grams lighter and the big tires makes the ride very comfortable but still very precise fast and enjoyable.
So the idea has come to mine to atleast try to get all the winning points of the Niner and make it even lighter and use that as my main XC/trail bike. Ofcourse it's very important to stay close to the geo of the SIR9 for me to get the most out of it.
Now the thing is with the SIR9 that the headtube is very long 144mm and then it has external cup lower bearings. So any carbon frame that has internal barings would be 10mm shorter for shure, ofcourse spacer can help out but dont want to add to much vs stability of the steerer.
I see the IP-057 has a headtube of 135 in XL (I need an XL) is there anyone who knows if the is a frame with an even longer headtube, or if there is a lighter frame still that has a headtube of atleat 135mm?

Here is a comparison between my Niner SIR9 and the IP-057 in numbers:

In mm Niner SIR9 - IP-057
Seat tube                    546 - 533
Effect top tube            642 - 640
Stack                           657 - 645
Reach                          447 - 436
Standover                   835 -    
Head tube                  144 - 135
Head angle          71.3deg - 69.5deg
Seat tube angle   73.3deg - 72.5deg
Bottom bracket drop     56 - 60
Chain stay                  439 - 440
Wheelbase               1127 - 1139

To be honest the IP-057 look quite ok, I was also looking at the IP-196 27.5 frame but the stack of that frame cam out quite low in XL 618??? that doesnt feel right. The plus on the 27,5 would be that I can transfer the raceface wheelset over.. But less important then fit obviously!

And another thing I would like to now how the the rigid forks from Iplay/Hong Fu/Yoeleo (I dont know if the last rband is the same or not) are rated and which of the models is king.

Any help would be apprciated greatly ofcourse as I'm a total n00b at this, but looks like a very cool project to try;)

Cheers!